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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Roger Pellett in Paint and varnish thoughts, recommendations   
    IMHO,  If you have Floquil paints, you’re using the best.  I like the Tamiya paints too.  I see no reason to overcoat paints used to paint your hull. I especially would not paint polyurethane varnish over your Floquil painted hull.  Floquil is known for its ability to provide excellent coverage with thin coats thanks to their finely ground pigments.  Overcoating with varnish will add an unnecessary thick coat that is likely to tint your white topsides.
     
    Wooden spars were often finished bright (natural).  Where mast hoops were used they could scar a painted finish.  If you decide to paint them white, I wouldn’t worry about getting an exact color match.
     
    Roger
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Gregory in Planking Question   
    Nice pun!
     
    The word " rabbet " is probably not found  in any European ship kit plans or instructions...  I don't know if Vanguard is an exception to that.
     
    Thousands of those models have been built without the builder ever knowing what a rabbet is.
     
    It is most useful on single planked models, but even then , it is possible to plank without it, but very hard to get a clean look where the planking meets the keel and stem..
  3. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Justin P. in Planking Question   
    Agreed.   However, I think the spirit of Glenn's wisdom still has value.   Read everything you can, when you cannot be building.  At least this version has served me well.   If I have bench time, Im building.  I try to not spend too much of that valuable time with my nose in a book.   The more I build, the better modeler I become.   When I cant be at the bench, I READ.   I read MSW, I read modeling books, I read articles, I read Age of Sail fiction and non-fiction, etc...   I also try to read as much as I can regardless of context on my modeling subject.   This enriches my experience.  
     
    Maybe its just me... maybe Im obsessive.   I know both daughter and wife cant possibly roll their eyes enough or groan any louder when they see another book arrive or I start in about how their current life issue is analogous to that time Captain so-and-so did that thing back in 1740...   ha!     
     
    My advice would be to focus on the Dory, read a few things about the Dory - get to know the design, its purpose and history and just start building it.   
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to tlevine in Planking Question   
    Glenn, I respectfully disagree.  Read everything you can.  The more you know, the better your model will be, whether it is the simplest kit on the market or a fully-framed ship of the line.  The first time I read Underhill was when I was building a solid hull Bounty by Scientific.  It encouraged me to learn more and improve/expand my skills and knowledge.
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from barkeater in Planking Question   
    Truer words were never spoken. A top condition first edition of The Built Up Ship Model is going for $125.00, which amazed me, but you can get a paperback reprint for six bucks. Anything by Charles Davis is worth adding to one's library. The same goes for any of Harold Underhill's works, particularly Plank on Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging (Vols. I and II) and Masting and Rigging: The Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier. For those who haven't grown up and lived with ships all their life, and even for those who have, I would say a copy of The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea, by the publishers of the Oxford English Dictionary, belongs on every modeler's bookshelf, and, for those without bookshelves, it's available for free at: Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea - Oxford Reference Put it in your favorites list and you'll never have a problem with the nomenclature again.
     
    Interestingly, despite the unbelievable amount of information on the internet (along with an incredible amount of garbage,) ship modelers who have not built a sufficient research library will forever remain at the mercy of the kit manufacturers whose plans and instructions may leave something to be desired. The good news is that many of these works are readily available on the used market (google is your friend) at prices low enough not to arouse "the purser's" suspicions.
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Soft, medium or stiff brushes?   
    If you are spending money on good brushes, it's important to remember that natural bristles (sable, badger, squirrel, etc.) are for oil-based paints only. Synthetic bristle brushes are for water-based paints only. You can get by with either, but you will ruin a natural bristle brush using it in water-based paints because the bristles will absorb the water and the brush will lose its shape and "snap." Oil-based paint doesn't work so well on synthetic brushes because the synthetic bristles don't hold the oil-based paint as well. 
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Sasha131 in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    Your opinion certainly isn't contrary to mine. The OP asked about rotary tools. Had he asked, "What's the best tool for cleaning up portholes?" my answer would have been a round file or a hand reamer of some sort. My first rotary tool was that same Sears Craftsman rotary tool you mention. I still have it. I can't remember when I used it last. I believe they were made by Weller and labeled "Craftsman" by Sears, as was Sears' practice with all of their products. (Sears and its subsidiary, K-Mart, had over 3,000 stores and they were two of the largest retailers in the US fifteen years ago. Now there are about 19 Sears and 16 Kmart stores left. Stanley Black & Decker now own the Craftsman brand and, while they claim to honor the famous "lifetime no questions asked replacement warranty" on Craftsman hand tools, they only honor it if the store that sells Craftsman tools to which you bring your broken tool happens to have that very same tool in stock, which often they don't. If the broken tool is part of a set, and they don't have loose stock to replace it, they won't break up a set to do the exchange, so you're out of luck. This is classic "thread drift," I know, but I thought it was an interesting footnote.) In retrospect, compared to the Dremel I bought later, the Craftsman/Weller rotary tool was rather inferior.)
     
    Perhaps I should have gone into more detail on rotary tools, I suppose. Truly, rotary tools can be and generally are too aggressive when used on anything but metal. (The Dremel Moto-tool was originally designed and marketed as a die grinder.) As I mentioned in my post above, it's all about torque and not about speed. One of the big drawbacks to a high-speed rotary tool is that it too aggressively removes soft material. Combine that limitation with a heavy, less ergonomic tool and controlling it becomes very difficult, especially with fine work. Additionally, slowing down these high-speed motors, particularly the newer very high speed rare earth magnet "micro-motors," results in a corresponding loss of what was not a lot of torque to begin with. Trying to do work with wood, and particularly plastics, which can melt when cut with high speed tools, with a tool that is really only effective at high speed, is very difficult and, in the case of plastic, sometimes impossible.
     
    Painting with a somewhat broad brush, I offered four options, intentionally omitting 12 volt and battery-powered options, as well as the entire range of "micro-motor" rotary tools which are becoming more popular in some quarters these days. The micro-motor tools are small handpieces with the motor in the handpiece itself. These are very high speed tools with little torque, but they are easier to control due to their ergonomics. They are primarily useful for very fine detail work and lack the broader range of attachment capabilities of the other rotary tools.
     
    All of which is to say that in my opinion the best option of all in terms of versatility and power at low, more easily controllable speeds, as may be needed, are the dental engines. These days, if you watch eBay and similar sites carefully, one can find a dental lab grade dental engine that was built to last a lifetime, in very good condition, for a couple of hundred bucks or less. Considering the maxim that much touted "multi-tools" do none of the things they say they do well, one has to realize that with a dental engine, they may want to acquire a separate mini-drill press or the like because the dental engine isn't going to do it for them on that score, but then again, mounting a Dremel-type motor in a drill press attachment is a poor option anyway.
     
    And no matter what, one will need to have a good set of wood-cutting files and rifflers anyway.
     
     
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    The small rechargeable Dremel mototools were quite promising. I have one, but haven't used it in a long time. I bought it for my wife who shows dogs and wanted a cordless Dremel for doing pedicures on her basset hounds on the road at dog shows. There was (is) an undisclosed design defect in them. They are fine for quick use, but if they are run for any length of time (I'm guessing eight or ten minutes continuously,) the battery to motor body contacts heat up to the point where they actually melt, at which point the (expensive) battery is useless. At least, that was my experience with them. I suspect this is why Dremel discontinued them.
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    Size doesn't matter, really. Most all rotary tools accept a variety of sized collets so a wider range of shaft diameters can be accommodated. (See the black cube collet holder and collets in the lower right hand corner of the posted picture of the Proxxon rotary tool.) Dremel has a Jacobs-type chuck attachment that will accommodate up to 1/8" diameter shanks.
     
    Dremel Rotary Tool Quick Change Collet Nuts (5-Piece) with 1/32 in. Rotary Tool Multi-Pro Chuck-4485+4486 - The Home Depot
     

  10. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Sasha131 in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    It depends upon your pocketbook. In order of lowest to highest cost, I'd advise one of the following. Don't waste your money on Asian knockoffs. Only buy the name-brand stuff below.
     
    Dremel Moto-tool. The bottom of the line model starts at $40 and they go up from there. Expect to pay $75 to $85 for a top of the line model. Spending a bit more for a model with variable speed is probably a wise move. Buy the self-centering chuck adapter accessory.  Dremel 100-N/7 Single Speed Mini Rotary Tool Kit with 7 Accessories- Hobby Drill, Small Pen Sander, Garden Tool Sharpener, Craft & Jewelry Drill, Black - Power Rotary Tools - Amazon.com
     

     
     
     
    Proxxon Rotary Tool. Starts around $115.00. Like the Dremel but probably better quality construction and its ergonomics are preferred by some. Likely more readily available in the EU than the Dremel. proxxon rotary tool - Bing
     

     
     
    Foredom Flex-shaft tool. Serious money at around $300 and up. Extremely versatile. Industry standard for heavy duty rotary tools. Used by commercial jewelers and dental labs. Everything you'll ever need in a rotary tool. Many different handpieces available. Get the drill chuck handpiece and the collet chuck handpiece (shown) for the greatest convenience and flexibility. The foot pedal is a big plus. Comes in a bench base model or for hanging from a bench-mounted hanger. Your preference. Sometimes available used.  Amazon.com: Foredom 2230, SR motor, Jewelers Kit
     

     
     
    Dental lab engine, any brand. (Wells Model shown.) Expect to pay close to a grand retail for one of these ($750 with foot pedal speed control and handpiece arm plus $250 and up for the handpiece,) but your dentist may have one that he's replaced with an air-turbine handpiece unit and would be willing to give to you. They are a lot of them on the used market as air-turbine and micromotor units have come on the market, and they are sometimes at great prices. (E.g.: $400  Belt Drive Wells Dental Engine set Dental laboratory Model EURI Hobby/Carving | eBay and $100 Super-Dent Rugby Dental Laboratory Engine w/ Arm, Handpiece | eBay) The advantage of the "old school" dental engine is that it has a tremendous speed range (40,000 RPM downward) and good torque at low speeds, unlike other rotary tools. This rotary tool is still the workhorse of dental laboratories and parts and service are widely available, if needed. It excels at very fine work (like filling cavities) with it's wide range of very ergonomic handpieces, including angled ones for working in tight spaces.  It can be rather difficult to do fine work while holding a heavy, fat, Dremel or Proxxon rotary tool. It does what your dentist does inside your mouth, so you should have no problem reaching inside a framed hull to sand and bevel frames! And, if you ever tire of ship modeling, it will always be handy to have around the house to use for "enhanced interrogation techniques."  
     

     
    While others' mileage may differ, I would recommend staying away from 12 volt rotary tools and anything running on batteries. They lack the power to really hog off the material when you want to do that. The same is true for the relatively new "micromotor" rotary tools. As much as they try, the laws of physics just won't permit replacing torque with speed. When it comes to power tools, the emphasis has always to be on power. 
     
    As for burs and abrasives, note that the quality of those made for the professional jewelry manufacturing industry and the dental professionals will be of much higher quality than anything that uses the word "hobby" in their advertising and they will often be less expensive and longer lasting. Look for them in the online catalogs. They don't sell them in brick and mortar stores.
     
    Shop around. This stuff goes on sale regularly. As interesting as it is to read their catalogs, the "hobby" mail order outfits are the most expensive retailers of all with this stuff, although, once in a blue moon, they do offer significant discounts.
     
    Don't forget, always buy the best tool you can afford. It will last you a good long time, maybe even longer than you do, and if you find you don't need it anymore, you can almost always sell it for something reasonable. Cheap tools actually cost you more because you have to keep buying them over and over again. (Don't ask me how I know this!  )
     
    Oh, and did I say, "Don't buy Asian knock-offs of Dremel and Foredom-type tools." There are lots of them on the market these days.  They may look identical and be a quarter the price, but they aren't the same. ("Cleek's Law" #27: "Never buy anything with a cord from Horror Fright!") Rotary tools live hard lives and if they are to live long lives, they have to be made of quality materials. There's no point in spending the money on a machine that will burn its bearings out in six or eight months of occasional use!
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in V Tool   
    Well now, that would depend on the size of the rabbet, wouldn't it?  
     
    Just pick a size that's comfortable for you. The most important thing is that the tool is sharp. The best way is to cut the rabbet at the base of each frame using a fit stick to take up the angle of the face of each frame and then connect the notches by cutting out the rabbet between the notches. That's the easiest was to develop the rolling bevel so your planking will lie fair against the frame faces and the back-rabbet.
  12. Laugh
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Justin P. in Planking Question   
    Indeed they do complicate things sometimes.   He asked about cutting rabbets, so I figured he'd gotten that far. Now you've given him "butt shift patterns" to worry about.  
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from tlevine in Planking Question   
    Truer words were never spoken. A top condition first edition of The Built Up Ship Model is going for $125.00, which amazed me, but you can get a paperback reprint for six bucks. Anything by Charles Davis is worth adding to one's library. The same goes for any of Harold Underhill's works, particularly Plank on Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging (Vols. I and II) and Masting and Rigging: The Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier. For those who haven't grown up and lived with ships all their life, and even for those who have, I would say a copy of The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea, by the publishers of the Oxford English Dictionary, belongs on every modeler's bookshelf, and, for those without bookshelves, it's available for free at: Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea - Oxford Reference Put it in your favorites list and you'll never have a problem with the nomenclature again.
     
    Interestingly, despite the unbelievable amount of information on the internet (along with an incredible amount of garbage,) ship modelers who have not built a sufficient research library will forever remain at the mercy of the kit manufacturers whose plans and instructions may leave something to be desired. The good news is that many of these works are readily available on the used market (google is your friend) at prices low enough not to arouse "the purser's" suspicions.
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Planking Question   
    Ain't that the truth! I've loved books all my life and I've learned a tremendous amount from them. I can't imagine pursuing ship modeling any distance without a good research library. It's such a joy to be able to look up the answers from authoritative sources. That's part of the difference between making a model and assembling one.
  15. Laugh
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Planking Question   
    Indeed they do complicate things sometimes.   He asked about cutting rabbets, so I figured he'd gotten that far. Now you've given him "butt shift patterns" to worry about.  
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Justin P. in Planking Question   
    So true.   Indeed one of my favorite parts of the hobby is the collecting/curating my library.   
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in The Pilgram - Tall Ship - sinks at its berth!   
    Sad news. From the reports, it seems Pilgrim was another one of those "replicas" that sort of looked like what somebody sort of thought the original might have looked like. Her hull was originally a 1945 three masted Danish schooner, about ten feet longer than Dana's 1830 Pilgrim, which would likely have been "apple-bowed." Reportedly, she was insured for $6 million and a total loss. Assuming her rig and other gear were salvageable, it seems like a more accurate "replica" could be built to USCG school ship certification standards for less than that, so things may not be as bad as one might imagine.
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Planking Question   
    Truer words were never spoken. A top condition first edition of The Built Up Ship Model is going for $125.00, which amazed me, but you can get a paperback reprint for six bucks. Anything by Charles Davis is worth adding to one's library. The same goes for any of Harold Underhill's works, particularly Plank on Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging (Vols. I and II) and Masting and Rigging: The Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier. For those who haven't grown up and lived with ships all their life, and even for those who have, I would say a copy of The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea, by the publishers of the Oxford English Dictionary, belongs on every modeler's bookshelf, and, for those without bookshelves, it's available for free at: Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea - Oxford Reference Put it in your favorites list and you'll never have a problem with the nomenclature again.
     
    Interestingly, despite the unbelievable amount of information on the internet (along with an incredible amount of garbage,) ship modelers who have not built a sufficient research library will forever remain at the mercy of the kit manufacturers whose plans and instructions may leave something to be desired. The good news is that many of these works are readily available on the used market (google is your friend) at prices low enough not to arouse "the purser's" suspicions.
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from thibaultron in The Pilgram - Tall Ship - sinks at its berth!   
    Sad news. From the reports, it seems Pilgrim was another one of those "replicas" that sort of looked like what somebody sort of thought the original might have looked like. Her hull was originally a 1945 three masted Danish schooner, about ten feet longer than Dana's 1830 Pilgrim, which would likely have been "apple-bowed." Reportedly, she was insured for $6 million and a total loss. Assuming her rig and other gear were salvageable, it seems like a more accurate "replica" could be built to USCG school ship certification standards for less than that, so things may not be as bad as one might imagine.
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Justin P. in Planking Question   
    Truer words were never spoken. A top condition first edition of The Built Up Ship Model is going for $125.00, which amazed me, but you can get a paperback reprint for six bucks. Anything by Charles Davis is worth adding to one's library. The same goes for any of Harold Underhill's works, particularly Plank on Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging (Vols. I and II) and Masting and Rigging: The Clipper Ship and Ocean Carrier. For those who haven't grown up and lived with ships all their life, and even for those who have, I would say a copy of The Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea, by the publishers of the Oxford English Dictionary, belongs on every modeler's bookshelf, and, for those without bookshelves, it's available for free at: Oxford Companion to Ships and the Sea - Oxford Reference Put it in your favorites list and you'll never have a problem with the nomenclature again.
     
    Interestingly, despite the unbelievable amount of information on the internet (along with an incredible amount of garbage,) ship modelers who have not built a sufficient research library will forever remain at the mercy of the kit manufacturers whose plans and instructions may leave something to be desired. The good news is that many of these works are readily available on the used market (google is your friend) at prices low enough not to arouse "the purser's" suspicions.
  21. Laugh
    Bob Cleek reacted to Chuck Seiler in The Pilgram - Tall Ship - sinks at its berth!   
    Is that the origin of "Doing a half fast job"? 😁 (Think about it.)
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from wefalck in Soft, medium or stiff brushes?   
    If you are spending money on good brushes, it's important to remember that natural bristles (sable, badger, squirrel, etc.) are for oil-based paints only. Synthetic bristle brushes are for water-based paints only. You can get by with either, but you will ruin a natural bristle brush using it in water-based paints because the bristles will absorb the water and the brush will lose its shape and "snap." Oil-based paint doesn't work so well on synthetic brushes because the synthetic bristles don't hold the oil-based paint as well. 
  23. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Bill Hudson in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    I have had it for many years. The only marking on it says MICROMOT 50e. It is very small.  I would say it i comparable to a hand piece for Foredom but a little bulkier. I got it through Woodcraft.  About files:  yes they have their place and are good for finishing off parts. An equivalent for rotary tool burrs would be diamond burrs. They come in fine and course. They work great on wood. If they become clogged with wood fiber just dip them in Dawn and scrub with a toothbrush.  I enjoy the knowledge being shared here. 
  24. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to BobG in Rotary tool recommendations, preferences   
    No need to apologize for anything, Roger. I didn't think your post was critical at all. I was just suggesting that a flex shaft attachment can be added to a Dremel or a Proxxon rotary tool which then gives you a very slim tool to use.
  25. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in V Tool   
    It's a boatwright's term. A fit stick is a short squared stick of wood with a bevel cut on one end that is the same thickness as your planking. It serves to check the fit of the plank in the rabbet as you cut the rabbet. You lay the fit stick against the frame face and slide it down until it fetches up against the keel. You start cutting a notch which will be the shape of the rabbet at that point on the keel and sliding the fit stick down as you remove wood until the stick fits perfectly into the short section of rabbet you've cut. You do this at each frame on the rabbet and similarly in the stem and stern posts. Then you strike your rabbet line with a batten, connecting the rabbet line at each notch you've cut. Then, again using your fit stick, you cut the rest of the rabbet, connecting the notches. In this fashion, the rolling bevel of the rabbet is cut so the plank will lay fairly and flush into the rabbet, which is particularly important on a real rabbet seam which will have to be caulked, but isn't as important with a model that isn't going to be caulked. Still, even with a model, it's got to fit well unless you don't mind slapping a lot of filler to make up for a sloppy fit. This is the easiest way to cut the angle of a rabbet accurately because plans generally only show the rabbet line, but not the back rabbet (apex) line, nor the bearding line.
     
    A video is worth ten thousand words.... this British fellow calls it a "planking block," though. "Fit stick" may be an Americanism. See: Traditional Maritime Skills :: Cutting the Rabbet (large vessels) (boat-building.org)
     
    This site has a great collection of text and video instructions for boatbuilding skills. Any modeler who is unfamiliar with traditional full-sized wooden boat and ship building techniques should find it very helpful. It's a handy reference site.
     
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