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Bob Cleek

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  1. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from East Ender in Dark wood putty, rather than Tree Nails   
    I'm sure someone has, but why would they want to? That would require drilling the holes, applying the putty, and then sanding the area and cleaning up. If one were so inclined, I'd suggest they use refinisher's crayons for the purpose. They "wipe on and wipe off," leaving the hole filled with a colored wax. No sanding necessary. See: https://www.amazon.com/Furniture-Repair-Crayon-Restore-Scratch/dp/B08FLZXKBZ/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=furniture+crayons&qid=1680053733&sr=8-7
     
    If one wishes to indicate where the fasteners were placed in a deck or elsewhere, a technical pen can be used to draw dots of the desired diameter with indelible ink. ( India ink was used to good effect on many builders' models produced around the turn of the last century for indicating doors and windows and other details of deck furniture. Seal the raw wood with thin shellac before doing so to prevent the ink from soaking into the wood and spreading.)
     
    If one is interested in an accurate portrayal rather than a "modeling convention," at scale viewing distances, trunnels are invisible and in most instances are basically the same color as the planking, not a dark contrasting color. (However, locust was commonly used for trunnels on the US Eastern Seaboard and it can be slightly darker that many planking species, but not so much that one would notice it, particularly on a weathered deck.) I really don't know why so many want to depict them, but they do. If it's done, though, the fasteners must be placed accurately where they would have been placed on the prototype. The biggest eyesore in this respect are highly visible deck and planking fasteners which are not accurately placed, especially where only one fastener is showing in a plank end.
     
     
     
     
     
     
  2. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Chain equivalents   
    Just a mention in passing: ModelExpo doesn't appear to sell stud-link anchor chain at all. They only sell scale common chain. 
     
    Following its invention and British patenting in 1819 stud-link chain quickly replaced common chain for anchoring chain in vessels over about 75 feet long or so. It was stronger than common chain of the same size, was less prone to jamming or jumping a wildcat, and stowed without "clumping" or kinking, always running free when the anchor was dropped. I would expect stud-link chain to be used by any of the American (including Canadian) fishing schooners. BBC - A History of the World - Object : Ships anchor cable chain link with stud. Most all of this stud-link anchor chain was initially and for a long time thereafter manufactured by Brown Lenox in England (suppliers to the Admiralty,) and, presumably, exported to North America. Since 1960, at least, Lister Chain and Forge in Blaine, WA has been supplying it to the United States Navy and civilian market. 
     

     
     

     
    Scale stud-link chain used to be near-unobtainable and had to be fabricated by the modeler. Jewelry wholesalers offer stud-link chain in smaller sizes, known to that trade as "marine chain," but this is generally made of precious metals and cost-prohibitive for modeling purposes. About ten years ago, Mathews Model Marine was offering 3D-printed plastic stud-link chain in a range of sizes designed for 1:200 scale naval vessel models (which requires delicate hand-working to clean and separate the links,) but I don't know if this is still available. See: Ship review (modelwarships.com) Fortunately, Caldercraft and a couple of others presently offer brass stud-link chain in a wider variety of sizes on eBay. See: stud-link anchor chain for sale | eBay
     
    For the more adventurous types, there's an excellent instructional piece on crafting stud-link chain from scratch in this forum's Articles Database: HowToMakeStudLinkChain.pdf (thenrg.org)
  3. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Mark P in Sutton Hoo Anglo-Saxon ship burial - footage of 1939 excavation   
    Good Evening gentlemen;
     
    Further to Bob's quite correct comment above, I seem to recall that an additional clue to the ship's shape was either the survival of the rivets (very rusted) holding the clinker planks together, or a patch of rust-coloured sand where the rivets had been. 
     
    All the best,
     
    Mark P
  4. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Reggiemon in Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - Steam Yacht   
    It wasn't the brass to which i was referring, but rather the exterior varnish work. (Which may also be a crew duty, depending upon the management of the vessel and the skills of the crew.) There may be a difference between American and British English. On this side of the pond, we generically refer to brightly varnished woodwork on a vessel as "brightwork." Brass is just "brass" to us, e.g. "...polish the brass..." vs. "varnish the brightwork." That said, the brass looks like it hasn't been regularly polished, but that wouldn't be unusual if she were laid up for the winter. The varnish takes longer to show the ravages of UV and, given that she was certainly wearing a professionally applied "eight coats" when she was restored, the fact that it is wearing through to the wood on the horizontal surfaces indicates she probably was in the sun with the brightwork uncovered for a couple of years, at least. Once it gets to showing bare wood, it must be entirely stripped and a new thick coating of varnish coats must be applied to restore a uniform finish. To maintain brightwork, a light sanding and a coat or two every six or eight months depending on the UV exposure is necessary and even more is needed in the tropics.
  5. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Ras Ambrioso in Cangarda 1901 by KeithAug - Scale 1:24 - Steam Yacht   
    The deck appears to be a veneer product made by Teak Decking Systems ("TDS" - World's Premier Teak Decking by Teakdecking Systems — Teakdecking Systems) The structural deck would be welded steel, TDS is laid out on a sheet of plywood and then the teak veneer is glued to the plywood in the configuration designed and shipped out of the factory as an exactly cut prefabricated sheet. (Note the absence of fastener plugs in the teak deck planks.) What you are looking at in the pictures is a modern "faux" laid teak deck, not a real one. I don't know how the original deck was laid out, exactly. It was probably much thicker (and wider) teak planking bolted to the deck beams or through the steel plate deck, then caulked and it was probably laid out to coincide with the bases of the deck furniture. The modern layout and narrow strakes of the restoration planking are an anachronism.  Quality teak in sizes suitable for "old school" deck planking is virtually unobtainable today, which probably explains the decision not to replicate the original teak decking. 
  6. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from ibozev in Occre Polaris (first build) - belaying pins, pin rails and shrouds....   
    There are many books on rigging and some are even reprints of contemporary instruction manuals. The Articles Database in this forum contains two contemporary rigging manuals. Nautical Research Guild - Articles and How Tos (thenrg.org) You may also wish to obtain a copy of John Leather's Gaff Rig, (Gaff Rig: Leather, John: 9780877420231: Amazon.com: Books) or The Gaff Rig Handbook (The Gaff Rig Handbook: John Leather: 9781408114407: Amazon.com: Books) which treat the gaff rigged schooner in detail. Lennarth Petersen's Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft and Rigging Period Ship Models, while not without some shortcomings, are good basic treatments of the subject. Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft by Lennarth Petersson | Goodreads   As for the "classics," every ship modeler's library should have copies of Charles Davis' Ship Models and How to Build Them (Ship Models: How to Build Them: Davis, Charles G.: 9798395212047: Amazon.com: Books) and The Built-up Ship Model (The Built-Up Ship Model (Dover Woodworking): Davis, Charles G.: 9780486261744: Amazon.com: Books). Another "classic" author is Harold Underhill. His basic modeling manuals, although, like Davis', somewhat dated today, are invaluable primers that do not presume the modeler requires thousands of dollars invested in expensive power tools. Grab copies of Underhill's Plank on Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Volumes I and II. There are lots of these available on the used market. Gerald Wingrove's Techniques of Ship Modeling is a great how-to-do-it book and widely available on eBay and other used book selling sites. The Techniques of Ship Modelling: Wingrove, Gerald A: 9780852423660: Amazon.com: Books Last, but not least, The NRG's Ship Modeler's Shop Notes, Volumes I and II are treasure troves of "tricks of the trade" and reference works you'll find yourself going back to time and again. (Available used from "the usual suspects" online and new from the NRG Store at this website. Of course, you'll find many valuable bits and pieces of information in the many build logs here, as well.
     
    The above books are just some that I think you would find useful as a new ship modeler starting off with the build you've chosen. There is a wealth of other more specialized books (often at much greater prices) that you will probably find yourself lusting after once you've collected the ones mentioned above. 
     
    One thing that those new to ship modeling often overlook is that research is as much a part of the hobby as anything else. Kit manufacturers often attempt to provide a detour around this "speed bump on the learning curve" by providing parts, plans, and insructions of varying degrees of quality, but taking that route often costs in terms of the ease, enjoyment, and quality of the build. You won't find a serious ship modeler anywhere who doesn't have a research library of some kind and you won't find a scratch modeler anywhere who doesn't' have a substantial one. Good books are a decent investment. As with anything else, there is a fair number of mediocre books out there, but the classics are easily identified and often available on the online used book market at rather reasonable prices. A nice library is not a difficult thing to acquire if one budgets for it and keeps a sharp eye out for used book bargains. A budget of twenty-five to fifty bucks a month, more than some spend at their neighborhood bar in a week, applied judiciously to acquiring good modeling books, will build a good library in no time.
  7. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Bryan Woods in Occre Polaris (first build) - belaying pins, pin rails and shrouds....   
    There are many books on rigging and some are even reprints of contemporary instruction manuals. The Articles Database in this forum contains two contemporary rigging manuals. Nautical Research Guild - Articles and How Tos (thenrg.org) You may also wish to obtain a copy of John Leather's Gaff Rig, (Gaff Rig: Leather, John: 9780877420231: Amazon.com: Books) or The Gaff Rig Handbook (The Gaff Rig Handbook: John Leather: 9781408114407: Amazon.com: Books) which treat the gaff rigged schooner in detail. Lennarth Petersen's Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft and Rigging Period Ship Models, while not without some shortcomings, are good basic treatments of the subject. Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft by Lennarth Petersson | Goodreads   As for the "classics," every ship modeler's library should have copies of Charles Davis' Ship Models and How to Build Them (Ship Models: How to Build Them: Davis, Charles G.: 9798395212047: Amazon.com: Books) and The Built-up Ship Model (The Built-Up Ship Model (Dover Woodworking): Davis, Charles G.: 9780486261744: Amazon.com: Books). Another "classic" author is Harold Underhill. His basic modeling manuals, although, like Davis', somewhat dated today, are invaluable primers that do not presume the modeler requires thousands of dollars invested in expensive power tools. Grab copies of Underhill's Plank on Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Volumes I and II. There are lots of these available on the used market. Gerald Wingrove's Techniques of Ship Modeling is a great how-to-do-it book and widely available on eBay and other used book selling sites. The Techniques of Ship Modelling: Wingrove, Gerald A: 9780852423660: Amazon.com: Books Last, but not least, The NRG's Ship Modeler's Shop Notes, Volumes I and II are treasure troves of "tricks of the trade" and reference works you'll find yourself going back to time and again. (Available used from "the usual suspects" online and new from the NRG Store at this website. Of course, you'll find many valuable bits and pieces of information in the many build logs here, as well.
     
    The above books are just some that I think you would find useful as a new ship modeler starting off with the build you've chosen. There is a wealth of other more specialized books (often at much greater prices) that you will probably find yourself lusting after once you've collected the ones mentioned above. 
     
    One thing that those new to ship modeling often overlook is that research is as much a part of the hobby as anything else. Kit manufacturers often attempt to provide a detour around this "speed bump on the learning curve" by providing parts, plans, and insructions of varying degrees of quality, but taking that route often costs in terms of the ease, enjoyment, and quality of the build. You won't find a serious ship modeler anywhere who doesn't have a research library of some kind and you won't find a scratch modeler anywhere who doesn't' have a substantial one. Good books are a decent investment. As with anything else, there is a fair number of mediocre books out there, but the classics are easily identified and often available on the online used book market at rather reasonable prices. A nice library is not a difficult thing to acquire if one budgets for it and keeps a sharp eye out for used book bargains. A budget of twenty-five to fifty bucks a month, more than some spend at their neighborhood bar in a week, applied judiciously to acquiring good modeling books, will build a good library in no time.
  8. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Canute in Sutton Hoo Anglo-Saxon ship burial - footage of 1939 excavation   
    The wood decomposed in the dirt and left the earth a darker color where the wood had been. They excavated carefully until they reached the dark dirt and knew that was where the ship had been and were from that able to recreate the lines of the ship.
     
    You can see the darkened earth defining the shape of the ship in the photo Louie posted above.
     
  9. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Sutton Hoo Anglo-Saxon ship burial - footage of 1939 excavation   
    The wood decomposed in the dirt and left the earth a darker color where the wood had been. They excavated carefully until they reached the dark dirt and knew that was where the ship had been and were from that able to recreate the lines of the ship.
     
    You can see the darkened earth defining the shape of the ship in the photo Louie posted above.
     
  10. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to allanyed in Occre Polaris (first build) - belaying pins, pin rails and shrouds....   
    Bravo!!  The research is an important endeavor if an accurate and realistic model is desired, and, it can be as satisfying as the build itself.    
  11. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from FanfarePrint in Occre Polaris (first build) - belaying pins, pin rails and shrouds....   
    There are many books on rigging and some are even reprints of contemporary instruction manuals. The Articles Database in this forum contains two contemporary rigging manuals. Nautical Research Guild - Articles and How Tos (thenrg.org) You may also wish to obtain a copy of John Leather's Gaff Rig, (Gaff Rig: Leather, John: 9780877420231: Amazon.com: Books) or The Gaff Rig Handbook (The Gaff Rig Handbook: John Leather: 9781408114407: Amazon.com: Books) which treat the gaff rigged schooner in detail. Lennarth Petersen's Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft and Rigging Period Ship Models, while not without some shortcomings, are good basic treatments of the subject. Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft by Lennarth Petersson | Goodreads   As for the "classics," every ship modeler's library should have copies of Charles Davis' Ship Models and How to Build Them (Ship Models: How to Build Them: Davis, Charles G.: 9798395212047: Amazon.com: Books) and The Built-up Ship Model (The Built-Up Ship Model (Dover Woodworking): Davis, Charles G.: 9780486261744: Amazon.com: Books). Another "classic" author is Harold Underhill. His basic modeling manuals, although, like Davis', somewhat dated today, are invaluable primers that do not presume the modeler requires thousands of dollars invested in expensive power tools. Grab copies of Underhill's Plank on Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Volumes I and II. There are lots of these available on the used market. Gerald Wingrove's Techniques of Ship Modeling is a great how-to-do-it book and widely available on eBay and other used book selling sites. The Techniques of Ship Modelling: Wingrove, Gerald A: 9780852423660: Amazon.com: Books Last, but not least, The NRG's Ship Modeler's Shop Notes, Volumes I and II are treasure troves of "tricks of the trade" and reference works you'll find yourself going back to time and again. (Available used from "the usual suspects" online and new from the NRG Store at this website. Of course, you'll find many valuable bits and pieces of information in the many build logs here, as well.
     
    The above books are just some that I think you would find useful as a new ship modeler starting off with the build you've chosen. There is a wealth of other more specialized books (often at much greater prices) that you will probably find yourself lusting after once you've collected the ones mentioned above. 
     
    One thing that those new to ship modeling often overlook is that research is as much a part of the hobby as anything else. Kit manufacturers often attempt to provide a detour around this "speed bump on the learning curve" by providing parts, plans, and insructions of varying degrees of quality, but taking that route often costs in terms of the ease, enjoyment, and quality of the build. You won't find a serious ship modeler anywhere who doesn't have a research library of some kind and you won't find a scratch modeler anywhere who doesn't' have a substantial one. Good books are a decent investment. As with anything else, there is a fair number of mediocre books out there, but the classics are easily identified and often available on the online used book market at rather reasonable prices. A nice library is not a difficult thing to acquire if one budgets for it and keeps a sharp eye out for used book bargains. A budget of twenty-five to fifty bucks a month, more than some spend at their neighborhood bar in a week, applied judiciously to acquiring good modeling books, will build a good library in no time.
  12. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Obormotov in MONTAÑES by Amalio   
    It's truly refreshing to see trunnels and plugs depicted at the proper scale, in the proper places, and with an appropriate species of wood. Too many otherwise well-done models are marred by improperly placed, over-sized trunnels and plugs of  contrasting color. 
     
    These are so good, I bet the grain's even running in the right direction!
     
  13. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from FanfarePrint in Occre Polaris (first build) - belaying pins, pin rails and shrouds....   
    To put a finer point on it, "... there was simply very little need for sailors to go aloft in the ordinary operation of the ship." There would be occasional need to go aloft for maintenance tasks, usually performed when the vessel wasn't sailing, although somewhat rarely there would be a need to go aloft to repair a block or untangle a fouled bit of running rigging at sea.  In such instances, some vessels such as Polaris might have wooden slats lashed to the two shrouds instead of ratlines, or even ratlines lashed simply to the two shrouds, but this would be perhaps more for sending a lookout aloft than anything else and wouldn't be seen on any vessel that didn't have a need for that, as would, for example, some fishing vessels and pilot boats. It was far more common of vessels of Polaris' type and size for sailors to climb the masts using the mast hoops as hand and foot hold, a practice a skilled sailor could accomplish with as much, if not more, ease as climbing ratlines.
     
    I mention this primarily because I checked this model on line, being unfamiliar with the kit, and I noted that the Occre Polaris model pictured shows mast hoops which are excessively separated (the distance between them being far too great.) They should be about a foot apart. The TurboSquid Polaris 3D model more correctly spaced mast hoops, although perhaps even these are a bit widely spaced. 
     
    Occre Polaris: (https://occre.com/en-us/products/polaris-starter-pack)
     
     
     
    TurboSquid Polaris: (See: https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/polaris-ship-model-1766063 for more pictures.)
     

     
    Note that the two wooden horned cleats fastened to the deck of the Occre version are apparently incorrect. Horned cleats are for taking stresses horizontal to their fastenings, not in line with the fastenings. A deck cleat as shown would be for belaying sheets or the like, not a line running straight up.
     
    The TurboSquid Polaris shows what is in my experience an unusual (if not entirely fanciful) shroud rigging method. They show deadeyes and lanyards to which is attached a length of chain with a tackle hooked to the chain and running aloft to a pendant from the upper mast band block hooked to the chain. It's impossible to see for certain where the fall of the tackle is belayed, but it would seem the falls were belayed to cavel cleats port and starboard of the masts. The deadeyes and lanyards and the tackle serve the same purpose of tensioning the shrouds, so it's beyond me why they would rig both on the same shroud. Though less common than deadeyes and lanyards, shrouds with a tackle in line to provide a purchase weren't unheard of in smaller vessels and certainly the arrangement was standard for "running" backstays. (Obviously, such a tackle on the shrouds would preclude any sort of ratline or climbing battens on the "running" shrouds.)
     
    The incorrectly portrayed cavel cleats inboard of the chains (for halyards) and the quarters (for mooring lines) shown on the TurboSquid picture are correct for the period of this vessel, but they have improperly shown a bar fastened between the rail framing instead of a length of wood attached to the inboard face of the frames and extending beyond the frames to form a horn to which line could be belayed. Note also that the rail fraiming on the TurboSquid example appears incorrect. I would think there should be far more frames forward. The Occre Polaris shows more correct frame spacing, although, off the top of my head, I can't say whether the Occre example is entirely correct, either. Eyebolts set in the deck would not be expected, as horn cleats or belaying pins in a mast band would be more proper. (The foot of each mast is an frequently used working area and the less underfoot to trip the seamen, the better.) 
     
    So, what I'd say is that if you are of a mind to start "kit bashing," which I consider an option with nearly every kit, there is much to improve upon with the Occre Polaris. I'd encourage you to do some research and rig her as contemporary authorities would indicate was common practice for the period. At the very least, toss the shiny brass rings pictured in both examples in your "slop chest" and make your own wooden mast hoops. There's instructions for making them easily here in the forum in a recent post. Metal mast hoops are not used because they would create serious chaffing damage to the mast and the only brass on a working boat of this period would be bell and the skipper's keys! All other metal would be wrought iron painted black. Moreover, with respect to the TurboSquid example, I doubt copper oxide antifouling paint was even invented at the time of this ship.  All of these details are easily researched and that task can be every bit as satisfying as building the model itself. You can easily greatly improve upon what the kit manufacturer has provided and produce a first-rate model of a very interesting vessel type.
     
     
  14. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Keith Black in Occre Polaris (first build) - belaying pins, pin rails and shrouds....   
    To put a finer point on it, "... there was simply very little need for sailors to go aloft in the ordinary operation of the ship." There would be occasional need to go aloft for maintenance tasks, usually performed when the vessel wasn't sailing, although somewhat rarely there would be a need to go aloft to repair a block or untangle a fouled bit of running rigging at sea.  In such instances, some vessels such as Polaris might have wooden slats lashed to the two shrouds instead of ratlines, or even ratlines lashed simply to the two shrouds, but this would be perhaps more for sending a lookout aloft than anything else and wouldn't be seen on any vessel that didn't have a need for that, as would, for example, some fishing vessels and pilot boats. It was far more common of vessels of Polaris' type and size for sailors to climb the masts using the mast hoops as hand and foot hold, a practice a skilled sailor could accomplish with as much, if not more, ease as climbing ratlines.
     
    I mention this primarily because I checked this model on line, being unfamiliar with the kit, and I noted that the Occre Polaris model pictured shows mast hoops which are excessively separated (the distance between them being far too great.) They should be about a foot apart. The TurboSquid Polaris 3D model more correctly spaced mast hoops, although perhaps even these are a bit widely spaced. 
     
    Occre Polaris: (https://occre.com/en-us/products/polaris-starter-pack)
     
     
     
    TurboSquid Polaris: (See: https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/polaris-ship-model-1766063 for more pictures.)
     

     
    Note that the two wooden horned cleats fastened to the deck of the Occre version are apparently incorrect. Horned cleats are for taking stresses horizontal to their fastenings, not in line with the fastenings. A deck cleat as shown would be for belaying sheets or the like, not a line running straight up.
     
    The TurboSquid Polaris shows what is in my experience an unusual (if not entirely fanciful) shroud rigging method. They show deadeyes and lanyards to which is attached a length of chain with a tackle hooked to the chain and running aloft to a pendant from the upper mast band block hooked to the chain. It's impossible to see for certain where the fall of the tackle is belayed, but it would seem the falls were belayed to cavel cleats port and starboard of the masts. The deadeyes and lanyards and the tackle serve the same purpose of tensioning the shrouds, so it's beyond me why they would rig both on the same shroud. Though less common than deadeyes and lanyards, shrouds with a tackle in line to provide a purchase weren't unheard of in smaller vessels and certainly the arrangement was standard for "running" backstays. (Obviously, such a tackle on the shrouds would preclude any sort of ratline or climbing battens on the "running" shrouds.)
     
    The incorrectly portrayed cavel cleats inboard of the chains (for halyards) and the quarters (for mooring lines) shown on the TurboSquid picture are correct for the period of this vessel, but they have improperly shown a bar fastened between the rail framing instead of a length of wood attached to the inboard face of the frames and extending beyond the frames to form a horn to which line could be belayed. Note also that the rail fraiming on the TurboSquid example appears incorrect. I would think there should be far more frames forward. The Occre Polaris shows more correct frame spacing, although, off the top of my head, I can't say whether the Occre example is entirely correct, either. Eyebolts set in the deck would not be expected, as horn cleats or belaying pins in a mast band would be more proper. (The foot of each mast is an frequently used working area and the less underfoot to trip the seamen, the better.) 
     
    So, what I'd say is that if you are of a mind to start "kit bashing," which I consider an option with nearly every kit, there is much to improve upon with the Occre Polaris. I'd encourage you to do some research and rig her as contemporary authorities would indicate was common practice for the period. At the very least, toss the shiny brass rings pictured in both examples in your "slop chest" and make your own wooden mast hoops. There's instructions for making them easily here in the forum in a recent post. Metal mast hoops are not used because they would create serious chaffing damage to the mast and the only brass on a working boat of this period would be bell and the skipper's keys! All other metal would be wrought iron painted black. Moreover, with respect to the TurboSquid example, I doubt copper oxide antifouling paint was even invented at the time of this ship.  All of these details are easily researched and that task can be every bit as satisfying as building the model itself. You can easily greatly improve upon what the kit manufacturer has provided and produce a first-rate model of a very interesting vessel type.
     
     
  15. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from tkay11 in Where can I get small grommets?   
    Yes, but if accuracy still matters at such small scales, "tear drop" shaped thimbles are made for use with wire rope, not fiber rope. The round thimbles are for fiber rope.
  16. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Toolmaker in Where can I get small grommets?   
    I’m unsure if any kind of self manufacture is an option. This picture comes from Chuck at Syren and shows his simple method using small pieces of brass tube. Other than sawing the pieces no other machining is required. He just swages the end with a tapered punch and a hammer.

     
    I hope that is useful 
    Thanks
     
    Paul
  17. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Reggiemon in Where can I get small grommets?   
    James,
    Here is one place that still sells thimbles. Elde-Modellbau Thimble
    They may be available from some of the British ship model shops. I have been using the medium size in the rigging of my current model. 
    The only other thing I have found is the small grommets/eyelets in doll house making supplies that can be easily made into thimbles..
    Reg
  18. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to allanyed in Where can I get small grommets?   
    Go to the McMaster site or similar suppliers where you can find brass tubing.  You can chuck a small piece in a drill and cut a grooves with a needle file, then cut off each piece with a fine tooth stiff back saw like those from Xacto and others.     https://www.mcmaster.com/products/tubing/?s=brass-tubing%2Fbrass-tubing  Click on the top left and a page will come up with various sizes.  Those that come up on the right look like they may work for you.   A bit of work, but not difficult.
    Allan
  19. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Where can I get small grommets?   
    Can you be more specific about what you mean by a "grommet?" A rope grommet is a circle of three-strand line made by unlaying a single strand of three-strand of sufficient length and then re-laying the single strand in a circle with a whipping at the point where the two ends meet. 
     

     
    Metal grommets are pressed together to be set in the hems and corners of canvaswork, frequently tarps, to reinforce connection points.

    Or are you asking about bronze (or brass) rope thimbles? Line is spliced around these thimbles to prevent chafing when the line is shackled to something, such as when connecting a block to a pendant.
     

     
    My guess is that the above are the thimbles you are asking about. Having had the dubious pleasure of sourcing real old-fashioned bronze rope thimbles for full-scale rigging jobs myself, I feel relatively secure in saying there's nobody making them today with an inner diameter of 1/32". You will almost certainly have to make them yourself. This is done by obtaining a length of brass tubing, 1/32" inside diameter in your case, annealing the end of the tube and cutting a suitable length of tubing off the tube to provide sufficient stock for forming the rims of a grommet. The rims are "rolled" by sandwiching the tubing section between two suitably-sized ball bearings and lightly hammering the ball bearings together on a hard surface to roll the edges of the tubing section. The same can be accomplished if one has a pair of pliers, preferably vise-grips, which have or can be modified to have round points on the jaws which could be used to compress the ends of the tubing and roll the rims of the grommet that way. Alternately, of course, they can be machined on a lathe from a length of rod stock of suitable diameter. 
     
    You might also send a message to Keith Aug of this forum. Keith is a master miniature metalsmith. If anybody knows another way to make thimbles, it would be Keith. See: KeithAug - Model Ship World™
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
  20. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Seamus107 in Where can I get small grommets?   
    You are correct, it is the thimbles I am looking for.  I am sorry to hear that no one making miniature versions any more, Inhave found them useful.  Thanks for the clarification and information.
  21. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from robert952 in What kind of putty works filling in hull depressions?   
    From my boatyard days, I've always been a big fan of Interlux surfacing putty. It is thinned with acetone and you can vary the consistency of the putty from thick cream you can brush on like gesso to stiff "cake icing" consistency. It's applied with a putty knife. Store it capped tightly with a tablespoon of acetone added and the can left upside down overnight and in the morning, the putty will be ready for use without any dried clumps in it. the bad news is that the acetone solvent evaporates very quickly and if the lid is left off the can, there can be annoying "skinning" of the exposed putty. (You have to develop the ability to hold the can and lid in one hand and the putty knife in the other, closing the lid immediately after accessing the putty in the can.) The good news is that the acetone solvent evaporates very quickly, which makes it easy to use because there's a very short drying time wait and successive layers can be built up if need be. It sands "like butter" and is compatible with all paints. It's the perfect thing for filling small dings, scratches, and other surface imperfections. Rather than sanding forever to remove a small imperfection, which only tends to create an unfair surface overall, it is far better to add a swipe of surfacing putty and then just sand that fair without having to remove a lot of material surrounding the imperfection. It's also a lot faster than sanding out similar imperfections without putty.  See: Surfacing Putty Boat Filler | Interlux Sold online and in marine chandleries.
     
  22. Like
    Bob Cleek reacted to Dr PR in Titanic's Waterline   
    Some military vessels do/did have a boot topping. US Navy vessels have/had boot topping - a wide black band between the bottom anti-fowling paint and the grey above.
     
    The boot topping width depended upon the difference between light loading and maximum loading. Basically, both the minimum and full load waterlines were within the width of the boot topping. On ships like oilers where the minimum load and maximum load varied greatly the boot topping could be very wide - see the attached photo.
     

  23. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from Kelp in Titanic's Waterline   
    Eberhard's answer is the best of the bunch offered above. 
     
    There are waterlines and there are boot stripes. Naval and commercial ships generally only have a waterline, the theoretical line of demarcation between the water and air which is generally struck a bit above the actual line of demarcation when the vessel is fully loaded to provide antifouling protection in the "splash zone" above the actual waterline. These waterlines are generally flat.
     
    The boot stripe is a stripe of a contrasting dark color painted between the bottom paint and the topsides paint on yachts and highly-finished commercial vessels. The purpose of a boot stripe (sometimes called a "boot top,") is to disguise the waterborne dirt and oil that would otherwise stain a vessel's white (or other colored) topsides when it splashed and collected at the waterline. In part for reasons Eberhard explained, and also 1) because the sides of most vessels curve inwards towards the centerline at their ends, which place the ends line farther away from the viewer viewing from the beam, which causes the line to appear narrower, from the viewer, and 2) because the sides of a vessel above the waterline may not be perpendicular to the waterline, but rather curve inward, as is common at the stern, thereby "twisiting" a boot stripe, making it appear thinner that it was to a viewer viewing from the side, a boot stripe that was equally wide over its entire length would appear to "droop" and would not be pleasing to the eye, particularly in a vessel with a contrasting sweeping sheer. Also as mentioned, a slight graceful curve upward in the upper edge of the boot stripe provides and illusion of grace and speed, as well. Therefore, boot stripes generally were horizontal at their bottom edges and gradually curved at their top edges, more so at the bow and less so, if at all, at the stern. It takes a considerable "eye" for a fair curve to lay out a proper boot stripe using a suitable batten and a poorly done job can cause considerable deteriment to the appearance of an otherwise good looking yacht.
     
     Below is an apparently colorized photograph of Titanic immediately prior to launch. One can draw their own conclusions as to whether or not her waterline was "curved upward" or not. If a good job was done striking curves which compensated for the optical illusions, you shouldn't be able to tell from looking.  I expect if the surface of the hull were projected to a flat plane, a slight upward curve towards the bow would be apparent. Note that the waterline is not parallel to the plating schedule. 
     

  24. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in Titanic's Waterline   
    Eberhard's answer is the best of the bunch offered above. 
     
    There are waterlines and there are boot stripes. Naval and commercial ships generally only have a waterline, the theoretical line of demarcation between the water and air which is generally struck a bit above the actual line of demarcation when the vessel is fully loaded to provide antifouling protection in the "splash zone" above the actual waterline. These waterlines are generally flat.
     
    The boot stripe is a stripe of a contrasting dark color painted between the bottom paint and the topsides paint on yachts and highly-finished commercial vessels. The purpose of a boot stripe (sometimes called a "boot top,") is to disguise the waterborne dirt and oil that would otherwise stain a vessel's white (or other colored) topsides when it splashed and collected at the waterline. In part for reasons Eberhard explained, and also 1) because the sides of most vessels curve inwards towards the centerline at their ends, which place the ends line farther away from the viewer viewing from the beam, which causes the line to appear narrower, from the viewer, and 2) because the sides of a vessel above the waterline may not be perpendicular to the waterline, but rather curve inward, as is common at the stern, thereby "twisiting" a boot stripe, making it appear thinner that it was to a viewer viewing from the side, a boot stripe that was equally wide over its entire length would appear to "droop" and would not be pleasing to the eye, particularly in a vessel with a contrasting sweeping sheer. Also as mentioned, a slight graceful curve upward in the upper edge of the boot stripe provides and illusion of grace and speed, as well. Therefore, boot stripes generally were horizontal at their bottom edges and gradually curved at their top edges, more so at the bow and less so, if at all, at the stern. It takes a considerable "eye" for a fair curve to lay out a proper boot stripe using a suitable batten and a poorly done job can cause considerable deteriment to the appearance of an otherwise good looking yacht.
     
     Below is an apparently colorized photograph of Titanic immediately prior to launch. One can draw their own conclusions as to whether or not her waterline was "curved upward" or not. If a good job was done striking curves which compensated for the optical illusions, you shouldn't be able to tell from looking.  I expect if the surface of the hull were projected to a flat plane, a slight upward curve towards the bow would be apparent. Note that the waterline is not parallel to the plating schedule. 
     

  25. Like
    Bob Cleek got a reaction from mtaylor in What kind of putty works filling in hull depressions?   
    From my boatyard days, I've always been a big fan of Interlux surfacing putty. It is thinned with acetone and you can vary the consistency of the putty from thick cream you can brush on like gesso to stiff "cake icing" consistency. It's applied with a putty knife. Store it capped tightly with a tablespoon of acetone added and the can left upside down overnight and in the morning, the putty will be ready for use without any dried clumps in it. the bad news is that the acetone solvent evaporates very quickly and if the lid is left off the can, there can be annoying "skinning" of the exposed putty. (You have to develop the ability to hold the can and lid in one hand and the putty knife in the other, closing the lid immediately after accessing the putty in the can.) The good news is that the acetone solvent evaporates very quickly, which makes it easy to use because there's a very short drying time wait and successive layers can be built up if need be. It sands "like butter" and is compatible with all paints. It's the perfect thing for filling small dings, scratches, and other surface imperfections. Rather than sanding forever to remove a small imperfection, which only tends to create an unfair surface overall, it is far better to add a swipe of surfacing putty and then just sand that fair without having to remove a lot of material surrounding the imperfection. It's also a lot faster than sanding out similar imperfections without putty.  See: Surfacing Putty Boat Filler | Interlux Sold online and in marine chandleries.
     
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