Occre Polaris (first build) - belaying pins, pin rails and shrouds....

[FanfarePrint]

Good afternoon to you all!  Well, I've taken the plunge and ordered the Polaris - it'll either be the start of a new hobby or it'll put me off for life!  Either way it will fulfil the long-term wish I've had to at least try.

 

Although my first ship, I'd like to try some things other than make it straight out the box, and I'd be really grateful for your thoughts...

 

Rather than have the rigging tied off to eye bolts, I'd like consider using belaying pins and pin rails, however, because there is only the minimum of rigging I'm not sure it'll a] work and b] look right.  I note that amongst build threads i've been trawling through someone did something similar in their build of the Virginia 1819, however this seems to have more rigging.

 

Secondly I'd like to add additional shrouds down to the chain plates to be able to add ratlines - looking at photos of similar vessels, some have them, some dont.

 

I'd really appreciate your thoughts and ideas - please don't hold back, if you think it's all a daft idea tell me, but try and let me down gently guys!!

 

Looking forward to you thoughts

[allanyed]

FP

Warm welcome to MSW.  It would be nice if you posted an intro on the new members page with a little about yourself and maybe what we should call you.  I highly suspect Fanfare is not your given name😀   Good luck with your build.   As this is a fictional ship, modifications are all up to you which is a good thing for practice.  Do spend time looking at the posts in both the kit and scratch builds as well as the articles in the database here at MSW for more tips, especially on correct planking techniques which you will not get from the kit.   

Again, welcome aboard.

Allan

  

[ccoyle]

As Allan said, you can certainly spruce up your model however you like. That being said, I would probably shy away from adding ratlines. All of the sails on a small schooner could be raised and lowered from the deck -- there was simply no need for sailors to go aloft, so ratlines would look a bit out of place.

[Bob Cleek]

2 hours ago, ccoyle said:

All of the sails on a small schooner could be raised and lowered from the deck -- there was simply no need for sailors to go aloft, so ratlines would look a bit out of place.

To put a finer point on it, "... there was simply very little need for sailors to go aloft in the ordinary operation of the ship." There would be occasional need to go aloft for maintenance tasks, usually performed when the vessel wasn't sailing, although somewhat rarely there would be a need to go aloft to repair a block or untangle a fouled bit of running rigging at sea.  In such instances, some vessels such as Polaris might have wooden slats lashed to the two shrouds instead of ratlines, or even ratlines lashed simply to the two shrouds, but this would be perhaps more for sending a lookout aloft than anything else and wouldn't be seen on any vessel that didn't have a need for that, as would, for example, some fishing vessels and pilot boats. It was far more common of vessels of Polaris' type and size for sailors to climb the masts using the mast hoops as hand and foot hold, a practice a skilled sailor could accomplish with as much, if not more, ease as climbing ratlines.

 

I mention this primarily because I checked this model on line, being unfamiliar with the kit, and I noted that the Occre Polaris model pictured shows mast hoops which are excessively separated (the distance between them being far too great.) They should be about a foot apart. The TurboSquid Polaris 3D model more correctly spaced mast hoops, although perhaps even these are a bit widely spaced. 

 

Occre Polaris: (https://occre.com/en-us/products/polaris-starter-pack)

 

 

 

TurboSquid Polaris: (See: https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/polaris-ship-model-1766063 for more pictures.)

 

 

Note that the two wooden horned cleats fastened to the deck of the Occre version are apparently incorrect. Horned cleats are for taking stresses horizontal to their fastenings, not in line with the fastenings. A deck cleat as shown would be for belaying sheets or the like, not a line running straight up.

 

The TurboSquid Polaris shows what is in my experience an unusual (if not entirely fanciful) shroud rigging method. They show deadeyes and lanyards to which is attached a length of chain with a tackle hooked to the chain and running aloft to a pendant from the upper mast band block hooked to the chain. It's impossible to see for certain where the fall of the tackle is belayed, but it would seem the falls were belayed to cavel cleats port and starboard of the masts. The deadeyes and lanyards and the tackle serve the same purpose of tensioning the shrouds, so it's beyond me why they would rig both on the same shroud. Though less common than deadeyes and lanyards, shrouds with a tackle in line to provide a purchase weren't unheard of in smaller vessels and certainly the arrangement was standard for "running" backstays. (Obviously, such a tackle on the shrouds would preclude any sort of ratline or climbing battens on the "running" shrouds.)

 

The incorrectly portrayed cavel cleats inboard of the chains (for halyards) and the quarters (for mooring lines) shown on the TurboSquid picture are correct for the period of this vessel, but they have improperly shown a bar fastened between the rail framing instead of a length of wood attached to the inboard face of the frames and extending beyond the frames to form a horn to which line could be belayed. Note also that the rail fraiming on the TurboSquid example appears incorrect. I would think there should be far more frames forward. The Occre Polaris shows more correct frame spacing, although, off the top of my head, I can't say whether the Occre example is entirely correct, either. Eyebolts set in the deck would not be expected, as horn cleats or belaying pins in a mast band would be more proper. (The foot of each mast is an frequently used working area and the less underfoot to trip the seamen, the better.) 

 

So, what I'd say is that if you are of a mind to start "kit bashing," which I consider an option with nearly every kit, there is much to improve upon with the Occre Polaris. I'd encourage you to do some research and rig her as contemporary authorities would indicate was common practice for the period. At the very least, toss the shiny brass rings pictured in both examples in your "slop chest" and make your own wooden mast hoops. There's instructions for making them easily here in the forum in a recent post. Metal mast hoops are not used because they would create serious chaffing damage to the mast and the only brass on a working boat of this period would be bell and the skipper's keys! All other metal would be wrought iron painted black. Moreover, with respect to the TurboSquid example, I doubt copper oxide antifouling paint was even invented at the time of this ship.  All of these details are easily researched and that task can be every bit as satisfying as building the model itself. You can easily greatly improve upon what the kit manufacturer has provided and produce a first-rate model of a very interesting vessel type.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Keith Black]

 Sam, welcome to MSW. Glad to have you aboard. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Keith Black

[FanfarePrint]

Thank you so much for the welcome and thank you so much for your thoughts guys.  I apologise for not having introduced myself properly before (a point I've now remedied!) - put it down to being a bit over eager!  You're quite right allanyed my first name isn't Fanfare, but Sam.

 

Bob, I really appreciate your in depth explanation of why not to include ratlines, which makes perfect sense.  

 

Time to do more reading, and research I think, before starting to make any changes!

 

Sam

[FanfarePrint]

11 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

To put a finer point on it, "... there was simply very little need for sailors to go aloft in the ordinary operation of the ship." There would be occasional need to go aloft for maintenance tasks, usually performed when the vessel wasn't sailing, although somewhat rarely there would be a need to go aloft to repair a block or untangle a fouled bit of running rigging at sea.  In such instances, some vessels such as Polaris might have wooden slats lashed to the two shrouds instead of ratlines, or even ratlines lashed simply to the two shrouds, but this would be perhaps more for sending a lookout aloft than anything else and wouldn't be seen on any vessel that didn't have a need for that, as would, for example, some fishing vessels and pilot boats. It was far more common of vessels of Polaris' type and size for sailors to climb the masts using the mast hoops as hand and foot hold, a practice a skilled sailor could accomplish with as much, if not more, ease as climbing ratlines.

 

I mention this primarily because I checked this model on line, being unfamiliar with the kit, and I noted that the Occre Polaris model pictured shows mast hoops which are excessively separated (the distance between them being far too great.) They should be about a foot apart. The TurboSquid Polaris 3D model more correctly spaced mast hoops, although perhaps even these are a bit widely spaced. 

 

Occre Polaris: (https://occre.com/en-us/products/polaris-starter-pack)

 

 

 

TurboSquid Polaris: (See: https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/polaris-ship-model-1766063 for more pictures.)

 

 

Note that the two wooden horned cleats fastened to the deck of the Occre version are apparently incorrect. Horned cleats are for taking stresses horizontal to their fastenings, not in line with the fastenings. A deck cleat as shown would be for belaying sheets or the like, not a line running straight up.

 

The TurboSquid Polaris shows what is in my experience an unusual (if not entirely fanciful) shroud rigging method. They show deadeyes and lanyards to which is attached a length of chain with a tackle hooked to the chain and running aloft to a pendant from the upper mast band block hooked to the chain. It's impossible to see for certain where the fall of the tackle is belayed, but it would seem the falls were belayed to cavel cleats port and starboard of the masts. The deadeyes and lanyards and the tackle serve the same purpose of tensioning the shrouds, so it's beyond me why they would rig both on the same shroud. Though less common than deadeyes and lanyards, shrouds with a tackle in line to provide a purchase weren't unheard of in smaller vessels and certainly the arrangement was standard for "running" backstays. (Obviously, such a tackle on the shrouds would preclude any sort of ratline or climbing battens on the "running" shrouds.)

 

The incorrectly portrayed cavel cleats inboard of the chains (for halyards) and the quarters (for mooring lines) shown on the TurboSquid picture are correct for the period of this vessel, but they have improperly shown a bar fastened between the rail framing instead of a length of wood attached to the inboard face of the frames and extending beyond the frames to form a horn to which line could be belayed. Note also that the rail fraiming on the TurboSquid example appears incorrect. I would think there should be far more frames forward. The Occre Polaris shows more correct frame spacing, although, off the top of my head, I can't say whether the Occre example is entirely correct, either. Eyebolts set in the deck would not be expected, as horn cleats or belaying pins in a mast band would be more proper. (The foot of each mast is an frequently used working area and the less underfoot to trip the seamen, the better.) 

 

So, what I'd say is that if you are of a mind to start "kit bashing," which I consider an option with nearly every kit, there is much to improve upon with the Occre Polaris. I'd encourage you to do some research and rig her as contemporary authorities would indicate was common practice for the period. At the very least, toss the shiny brass rings pictured in both examples in your "slop chest" and make your own wooden mast hoops. There's instructions for making them easily here in the forum in a recent post. Metal mast hoops are not used because they would create serious chaffing damage to the mast and the only brass on a working boat of this period would be bell and the skipper's keys! All other metal would be wrought iron painted black. Moreover, with respect to the TurboSquid example, I doubt copper oxide antifouling paint was even invented at the time of this ship.  All of these details are easily researched and that task can be every bit as satisfying as building the model itself. You can easily greatly improve upon what the kit manufacturer has provided and produce a first-rate model of a very interesting vessel type.

 

 

Having poured over the 3d pictures of Polaris, it's pretty evident there are quite a few differences between this and the original Occre model (which I will try and build into the model). 

 

There appear to be some belaying pin and rails attached to the bulwarks - sadly none of the pictures give a good view of these - has anyone a suggestion for a better view of something similar (actually, I'm not even sure if they are normal belaying pins - they almost look like they're fixed, and just used to store ropes tidily?).

 

The rigging certainly looks more involved, and something I'd like to try (particularly the shrouds), however, I'd really like to be able to study the layout in detail (bearing in mind I have never attempted any rigging before) so am trying to find good sources that could almost walk me though the rigging layout - has anyone any ideas for sources that might help?

 

I really appreciate your help guys

Sam

[Bob Cleek]

11 hours ago, FanfarePrint said:

The rigging certainly looks more involved, and something I'd like to try (particularly the shrouds), however, I'd really like to be able to study the layout in detail (bearing in mind I have never attempted any rigging before) so am trying to find good sources that could almost walk me though the rigging layout - has anyone any ideas for sources that might help?

There are many books on rigging and some are even reprints of contemporary instruction manuals. The Articles Database in this forum contains two contemporary rigging manuals. Nautical Research Guild - Articles and How Tos (thenrg.org) You may also wish to obtain a copy of John Leather's Gaff Rig, (Gaff Rig: Leather, John: 9780877420231: Amazon.com: Books) or The Gaff Rig Handbook (The Gaff Rig Handbook: John Leather: 9781408114407: Amazon.com: Books) which treat the gaff rigged schooner in detail. Lennarth Petersen's Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft and Rigging Period Ship Models, while not without some shortcomings, are good basic treatments of the subject. Rigging Period Fore-and-Aft Craft by Lennarth Petersson | Goodreads   As for the "classics," every ship modeler's library should have copies of Charles Davis' Ship Models and How to Build Them (Ship Models: How to Build Them: Davis, Charles G.: 9798395212047: Amazon.com: Books) and The Built-up Ship Model (The Built-Up Ship Model (Dover Woodworking): Davis, Charles G.: 9780486261744: Amazon.com: Books). Another "classic" author is Harold Underhill. His basic modeling manuals, although, like Davis', somewhat dated today, are invaluable primers that do not presume the modeler requires thousands of dollars invested in expensive power tools. Grab copies of Underhill's Plank on Frame Models and Scale Masting and Rigging, Volumes I and II. There are lots of these available on the used market. Gerald Wingrove's Techniques of Ship Modeling is a great how-to-do-it book and widely available on eBay and other used book selling sites. The Techniques of Ship Modelling: Wingrove, Gerald A: 9780852423660: Amazon.com: Books Last, but not least, The NRG's Ship Modeler's Shop Notes, Volumes I and II are treasure troves of "tricks of the trade" and reference works you'll find yourself going back to time and again. (Available used from "the usual suspects" online and new from the NRG Store at this website. Of course, you'll find many valuable bits and pieces of information in the many build logs here, as well.

 

The above books are just some that I think you would find useful as a new ship modeler starting off with the build you've chosen. There is a wealth of other more specialized books (often at much greater prices) that you will probably find yourself lusting after once you've collected the ones mentioned above. 

 

One thing that those new to ship modeling often overlook is that research is as much a part of the hobby as anything else. Kit manufacturers often attempt to provide a detour around this "speed bump on the learning curve" by providing parts, plans, and insructions of varying degrees of quality, but taking that route often costs in terms of the ease, enjoyment, and quality of the build. You won't find a serious ship modeler anywhere who doesn't have a research library of some kind and you won't find a scratch modeler anywhere who doesn't' have a substantial one. Good books are a decent investment. As with anything else, there is a fair number of mediocre books out there, but the classics are easily identified and often available on the online used book market at rather reasonable prices. A nice library is not a difficult thing to acquire if one budgets for it and keeps a sharp eye out for used book bargains. A budget of twenty-five to fifty bucks a month, more than some spend at their neighborhood bar in a week, applied judiciously to acquiring good modeling books, will build a good library in no time.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[allanyed]

11 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

 

One thing that those new to ship modeling often overlook is that research is as much a part of the hobby as anything else

Bravo!!  The research is an important endeavor if an accurate and realistic model is desired, and, it can be as satisfying as the build itself.    

Edited May 31, 2023 by allanyed