harvey1847

Hola Amigos! (put it mexican accent like in the movies)
 
 
Well... It took me almost one month.
 
The worst part has been to remove all the patterns and PVA glue from the frames. I did it using just water and a brush wetting the frames (three or four at a time. Then with an x-acto blade I scrapped the glue or the pattern working extremely carefully trying not harm the wood...
 
here are some pics. Not in order.
 

 

 

 

 

 
I have printed out the stern timbers and the lights. That´s where I am going to move on in order to make the main wales. I am kind of following Wang´s log.
 
Happy Sunday!
 
 
daniel.
 

Hola Daniel,
I could not help but smile at your response. I was able to picture you singing the last part. I've been pretty busy this morning at work but when I get more frames done I will document how I work on each frame.

Hello some more updates
they are images from hull construction and crane, rangefinder, gun mock-up study model etc.. enjoy

Yeah Ray!
 
dO IT your way! what the hek!
 
sicerously after reading your post I have felt kind of ashame from the last post I wrote down. Who we are to judge you or your model skills? Sorry about that. I guess sometimes we all go pretty dramatic here. You have done much more work in a week than others - like me - in a month.
 
some pics of the process would be very appreciated. I mean the sanding of a single frame i.e.
 
best wishes Aaaaand dooo iiiit yooour Waaaaay!
 
 
 
daniel.

Okay, after reworking the top of the deck slats they are now looking more like slightly weathered teak and as mentioned above, the Admiral likes it very much.  Soooohhhh, I continued cementing the rest of the slats to finish the aft deck.  There is still need for a few touch-ups here and there but overall it doesn't look half bad.
I invite all yuns to give me your thoughts on it, and don't be polite     I can always rip them off and go the boxwood route.
 
Here are the pics I took at 17:00 hours when I punched out of the dockyard for a much needed libation, a cool glass of belgian ale   
 

 

 
Cheers,

Elvis sang that?   I thought it was Frank Sinatra....  <sigh>   Seriously.. you're the Captain, build it your way.  That is one of our tenets here. 

Pressure starts ...
 
Words from Pink Floyd
 
Dig that hole, forget the sun,
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down it's time to dig
another one.

Go for it Mark!

Thanks Gino for the explanation, sources and the link.  I also did some reading via the web, quite interesting stuff.
 
All y'all may have been wondering why no updates in a few days   Well, I had to do some yard work and spend only the mornings in the shipyard    I have been cementing those crappy deck slats to the boat.  I started with the aft end thinking it would be the easiest part with fewer hatches.  I can only cement a few per day so the progress is quite slow.  This is all very tedious work making sure each slat is parallel to the centerline and 1 mm apart.  Needless to say that I had to reposition a few after eyeballing it and using a straightedge but overall they run nice and straight..  As far as that's concerned I'm quite happy with it.
Also, the dye I'm using decides to stain the slats unevenly, even though the wood is from the same board, go figure.  I'll finish the aft end first and then see if I can sand the top of the slats and carefully apply another coat of dye to even it all out.  If not - - - then I'll have to remove all the slats and get a few boards of cherry from Jeff but that'll bring me into May to continue with this project.
Tomorrow morning I'll try the sanding and dye touch up thing first before continuing to see of I can match the lighter brown colors.  If that works then I may just proceed with the decking.  If not - - - rip it all off.
 
Bottom line is, I'm not happy with the way it looks, too blotchy.  Below is a picture I took late this afternoon today.  It's not quite done yet but at least you can see what I'm talking about.  Of course we can say that they have weathered with the salt spray and sun but this model is to represent the boat as she was in June of 1939 when my father sailed on her to the Dutch East Indies.  Not much time to weather the deck or the boat.
One consolation is that I can still do a lot of other detail work IF I have to go and buy some wood from Jef.
 

Aft of the to be painted emergency telephone is completed.  At first glance there are a few apparent bare spots but there are tracks for the dolly and a few hatches.  Space must be made for the hatch hinges, the tracks have a curve and the deck slats must run parallel with the centerline.  This will cause the slats to hit the tracks with an angle and cannot abut the tracks on the inside, there must be enough space for the dolly wheels.  This will become quite noticeable when it's all done.  
 
Cheers,  

Raymond:
I asked because it seems like you are reinventing the wheel here. I designed the project specifically for first time builders. Everything was drawn out so you would not have to experiment or have any doubts about the building process.
 
Of course, it is your model and you can do whatever pleases you. Knock yourself out.
 
Russ

Young America - extreme clipper 1853
Part 43 – Bilge Ceiling, Iron Strapping
 
Historical Clipper Note: A number of different structures were installed inside clipper ship hulls to increase strength and help defeat hogging, the most serious structural threat to wooden ships apart from rot.  Hogging is the tendency of hulls to droop at the ends.  It resulted from the reduced buoyancy at the ends of ships as the flotation area of the hull got smaller.  It was further aggravated by localized stresses as waves passed under the hull.  This was a particular problem in clipper hulls that were very long and had very fine lines fore and aft.
 
In addition to large keelsons, weight reductions at the ends, moving foremasts aft and some features discussed in earlier posts, additional structural members inside the hull were also used.  These varied from builder to builder.  These included massive additional keelsons in the area of the floor heads, various forms of heavy ceiling timbers, long diagonal wood “pointers” and ironwork.  From what we know of William Webb’s designs, he seemed to favor thick “bilge ceilings” – bands of heavy planking from below the lower futtock heads up to the lower deck clamps - rather than bilge keelsons or pointers.
 
An 8” to 7” thick bilge ceiling and iron strapping were the most likely combination used in Young America and that will be the configuration I will use on the model
 
After some deliberation – discussed in earlier posts – I finally decided to install the strapping on the inside of the frames.  Although this is not known to be the original configuration, it is most likely based on some references and Webb’ practice on other ships.
 
The strapping was installed on the frames under the ceiling planking.  Because installing the strapping requires some hammering on the frames to rivet the straps in place, I wanted to get a couple of ceiling strakes in place to make the frame structure stronger before beginning the strapping.
 
The first picture shows the first strake of the bilge ceiling being installed.  These are 8” x 8” members bolted through the frames from a few feet above the floor  heads decreasing in thickness to 7” up to the lower deck clamp
 

 
The strake being installed is at the heads of the lower futtocks.  This strake and the others in the band, follow the curve of these futtock head joints.  Fore and aft they converge under the lower deck clamp to form a sort of truss to resist bending of the hull.  This was definitely the configuration when bilge keelsons were used and it is likely the bilge ceilings followed this practice.  Once this line is set by the first strake the others above and below it will be installed.
 
The next picture shows a closer view of the bolting and one of the joint scarphs.
 

 
Copper wire bolts have been epoxied through the frames.  The dark area is isopropanol used to wash off the epoxy – not yet dry.  Epoxy will help assure that the wire will act as true through bolts.  In practice these were iron, so they will be blackened before final finishing.  The second bolt at each frame pair will be modeled using black monofilament.
 
The next picture shows the copper bolts coming through the frames outside.
 

 
These will be clipped off and sanded flush as part of the external fairing process.  It can be seen that the bolts come through the lower futtocks just below the heads.  I am considering leaving a few view ports on the exposed framing side of the hull.  The bottom of these open areas would be at the floor heads, so the bolted inside members should provide plenty of strength around the openings. The tops of these openings will probably be at the middle deck clamps.
 
With a stretch of ceiling in place I was anxious to try out some iron strapping. The first picture shows the installation of a test area.
 

 
I decided I wanted no part of recessing all these into the frames.  For the most part they will be covered with inboard planking and will only be visible between frames on the outside, through the view ports if installed, and down through unplanked deck areas.
 
The next picture shows a closer view of the straps and their fasteners.
 

 
I used .005” copper for the straps, cutting them to size with a paper cutter, and then stretching to straighten them.  I considered using .010” strips but these would require recesses.  The thinner material should not affect the planking glue joints.  Planks will also be bolted so should be quite secure.  The difference in thickness is virtually undetectable visually.  The actual thickness would probably be somewhere between the two sizes.
 
The straps are held in place by copper rivets - 22 gauge copper wire – some through and some partially through as “blunts”.  Like the real bolts, the heads are peened over to secure the strips.  I initially tried to get all of the intersections on frames for bolting, hence some uneven spacing in this first area.  I will not describe all the steps in detail – or the journey up the learning curve to get acceptable-looking straps.
 
These must of course be blackened before being planked over – to avoid glue spots that would interfere with the etching.
 
The next picture from outside the hull shows some strapping blackened using liver of sulfur solution.  This will be the predominant viewpoint for this feature.
 

 
This picture shows some inevitable crossing of straps between frames.  I doubt that I will try to rivet these intersections as was done in practice, except where they fall over a frame.  A few strapping rivet heads can be seen on the outside of the frames.
 
The strapping will be installed over the full length of the hull up to the upper deck clamps.  The next picture shows some correctly sized clamp material – for the lower and upper decks - temporarily held in place,
 

 
This shows the convergence of the ceiling and the lower deck clamp mentioned above.  The 7 to 8” bilge ceiling would fill the area below the lower deck plank and continue for a few more strakes below those installed in this picture.
 
The straps will be cut off above the upper deck clamp.  The strapping is fully extended forward in this picture.  The middle deck clamp will fall midway between the two shown.
 
I now foresee a considerable amount of strapping work, punctuated with some bilge ceiling and perhaps deck clamp installation.  Should be interesting.
 
 Ed

Daniel,
thanks for taking the time to comment. The bulwark stanchions have already been pared back (with a chisel) as far as practicable without having to remove the waterway. It's not ideal, but I can live with it.
 
Grant.

What about if it has to do with the two pair of "dropping keels". The body plan just show us a rough idea of the hull. There must be more detailed draws from the surveyors that has been lost or simply the draws were in their brain.
 
 
Way to go!! By using spilines in CAD you can get a pretty good draw again. You can PM me with your mail and send a .pdf or .jpg and I will re-draw it for you if you want. I use AutoCAD 2011. The body plan is crucial.
 
Keep going!
 
 
Daniel.

Hello all,
Had a warm stint over the past weekend and so managed to do some rotary work on the hawse timbers which in turn allowed me to glue them in on the one side of the bow. They are only roughed in at the moment and  still require quite a bit of sanding to finish them off. It is good to finally see some progress.
 
Richard
 
 

Did work on the bollard timbers over the weekend. What a finicky, but fun, part to make!
 
 

Thanks for stopping in and taking a look!
 
On to the gun deck planking!  Unlike most of the berth deck there are all sorts of items poking through the deck requiring special consideration and thought.  As an example the following (and where they fit):
 

 
For the target plank width I decided one fourth of the width of the coamings would be just right.  I do have some liberties here since this ship was originally built in America as a cargo ship before being bought into the British navy.  This decision made for some clean lines:
 

 
After getting these affixed I thought the open sections needed some cleaning up to get good lines for the eye.  I decided to go for a trim piece slightly less than half plank size and framed out the opening, using mitered corners at all joins.  There is no end grain visible.
 

 
For clean up I find a scraper (usually a straight razor blade) works best.  A few swipes and everything looks clean.  Now on to the deck sides.
 
mark

Raymond,
 
The way you're building your frames now is much like the Hahn method.  That method does leave a few things to be desired in that it wastes a lot of wood, and if every joint isn't perfect the frame won't be as strong, however, it is faster.  Cutting out each futtock and joining them saves the wood, ensures each joint is precise and if chocks are added, it can be exactly as the real ones were made.  The disadvantage is that it's slower. 
 
As Russ said, build it your way.

Why are you not using the plans? Each piece of each frame has already been drawn out so that the frames could be put together piece by piece. They are included with the cross section drawings that have been made available for this build.
 
Russ

Having finally completed the Triton x-section, it's time to return to this, my first attempt at a plank on frame scratch build. It is the Tasmanian built barque Harriet McGregor from the plans by Harold Underhill, scale is 1:60. Originally started before Dry Dock Models was in operation, I lost interest in it due to the number of mistakes made in the earlier stages of construction that began to affect the build at the current point. The worst mistake: frame extensions above deck level should have been reduced in thickness prior to the waterway installation. I have done what I can to rectify this without pulling the waterways out (not practical), but will have to live with the consequences and work around the problem, hoping other small details will draw the eye from the larger inaccuracies. Having said all that, the model to date does bear a vague resemblance to the plans.
 

 
Grant.

Build log part 6
 
 
 

here is a terribly bad and wrong glued together wreck of the 1951 version (Heller 1:150) Pamir Hull, built by unknown...., but I saved it from the bin. It Looks like it ran on to the rocks of Cape Hoorn, but never the less I was only after taking cross check with the own 1:96 hull dimensions. I even sold that hulk at Ebay afterwards to someone else and for the same reason.
By the way, the assebly instruction Manual of the Heller kit, for whoever is able to get an exemplar, bears amoungst other valuable information, beautiful Explosion typ drawings of all individual parts, a great help !
 

leaving open the last Planks came very Handy for clamping down the decks
 
 

started to begin with several cardboard templates for the belaying pin racks Arrangement.
It was my decision to put all the rig (static ad running ropes,lines, chords, stays, Tacklings, bracing tackle, etc...) in full functional way to the rig. I asume there is not a Feature not modeled in to this ship
 

here just a Little Trial model
 

important to fix the Counters on the bottom deck side, same Little model
 

in accordance with the handscetch a made before
 

some of the many pin racks, semiround brass edge on the rope wear side, wooden semiround on the other
 

These also take up the shrouds- and backstay fastening bolts as well as the many individual pins
 

all eyelets have sufficiant Counter Points beneath the decks
 

eyelets within the mastgarden racks
 
 
 
Build log part 7 to follow...
 
 
Nils

build log part 5
 
 
 

a good base for Fixing the poopdeck on
 

same for the midship high deck, on the "keel-spine" the counternut for one standbolt can be seen
 

bow bulwark planking also done vertical
 

the Forward main deck reaches well under the upper forecastle deck
 

Fitting vent tubes preliminary, to see if the frontside of poop bulkhead notches are adequate
 

here again the hull lines clearly to be seen
 

the decks are from 1,5 mm 4 layer aero plywood
 

handscetch for scaled heights of belaying pin racks and bulwarks
 

planking of poopdeck, with 1 x 3 mm Pitchpine (to be cleaned and sanded over later on)
 

length several lots of cut pre-bundled and clamped deckplanks pencil-charcoaled at their thin- and face edges only
 
 
 
 
Build log part 6 to follow....
 
 
Nils

Build log part 4
 
 
 

3/4 planking done
 

waterline with preliminary pencil marking
 

vertical planking of spherical round upper Stern portion
 

waiting for the glue to dry off
 

this is a great Moment, the ship has been lifted off the baseplate for the first time, Hull sanded over, all Looks OK. Prop and shaft claddings as well as ruddershaft fitted
 

meantime the stand with its three brass Posts has been made and fitted
 

Planks just before the decklines left open for enabling Access underneath to the decks when they get mounted
 
 

 

all bukhead heights brout to appropriate deck levels
 

The decks are in preperation already...
 
 
 
Build log part 5 to follow
 
 
Nils

Update time... Things have not been quiet in the shipyard.
 
I laminated the plans to some MDF and attached a strip of wood at the reference line.  Also attached the stern framing to this so as not to mis-read any critical dimension.

 
The strip allows me to use the Ed Tool without any induced errors from having it canted slightly.

 
I've marked all the plans with appropriate reference marks and rescanned them all.  Also broke up Version 1.0 in order salvage certain bits..  like everything along the centerline... bitts, grates, pin rails, pumps, capstan, etc., some or all of the deck beams but none of the deck planking.   Also salvaged the mast steps and the stern framing.  I'll use the stern framing for some references.

 
I'm currently cutting out with as much precision as I can muster, a new build board.  I noted that on the old one, there were some frame notches that we either too deep or not deep enough.  Stupidity on my part.  I'll be re-using the previous version of the frame squaring jig (on the right in the picture).

 
Hopefully, in the next week or so, I can start cutting the keel, deadwood, and stem.  Since the wood for framing won't be here until early May, I'm planning on building some sub-assemblies such as most of the deck furniture.   I've located a local source of good birch plywood,  and am considering Woodcraft or the local source for masting materials and some other items.

Thanks all.
 
Yuk Grant
 
Sure Daniel, the joints are tinted with graphite to enhance the joints. Otherwise the joints are almost invisible and the bulkhead will look like its made from one piece.
 


 
Time to make some lanterns, the mullions were completely prepared on the table saw assembling was quite simple, once complete they were sanded down to the appropriate thickness
 

 

 

 

 
Here they are temporary in place, I still need to add a vent but I'm not sure how long to make it, TFFM describes it should clear the deck head. Should it face away from the bulkhead or go up to the upper deck, some advice would be appreciated how I need to interpret this.
 
Remco