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Posted

Your rope-coils turned out great Ken, and very clever, making them for right and left as well as adjustable for size.  B)

GEORGE

 

MgrHa7Z.gif

 

Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

Posted

I decided to start the rigging process with the bowsprit to learn how to since this is my first attempt. For now I am using the kit supplied lines. I quickly learned that using extra line attached to the yard help hold the tension and keep the deadline in alignment really made things easier to seize. Of course my wife made sure my clove hitches were correct; she taught knotting skills to girl scouts and cub scouts for years when living in Ohio. Here is a picture of the extra line attached to the yard. I also learned to check my hook attachments; the CA had not completely set and started to unravel; It was repaired and I may have to go back to using brass instead of copper wire and allow the CA to set on the dead-eyes.

post-18498-0-08024900-1438362832_thumb.jpg

 

This shows the dead-eyes at the cathead.

post-18498-0-16496300-1438362847_thumb.jpg

 

Here is an in-progress image. I will do as much rigging as I can before adding the masts.

post-18498-0-80043500-1438362866_thumb.jpg

 

The kit supplied lines are a challenge to work with and I will be ordering some more from Chuck as soon as I can figure out the sizes and footage required. I have learned quite a bit is just this short exercise of rigging and I am glad I started here and the "boss" will keep me in line with clove hitches. I achieved Queen Scout in Canada (U.S. Eagle Scout equivalent) an all the knot and lashing memories came back. 

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

I have finished rigging the bowsprit as much as I can until the masts are added. Rigging the hearts for the preventer stays was a bit of a challenge working with the stiff kit supplied lines but here is a close up of the first one in place.

 

post-18498-0-72798000-1438622134_thumb.jpg

 

Then the second. The challenge with these was seizing the loop and then seizing the end of the line to itself with black thread rather than the .008" line supplied.

 

post-18498-0-48890700-1438622147_thumb.jpg

 

This shows the area of the bowsprit rigging with the hearts in place. While most of these are standing lines, I also added two of the brown running lines that are tied off at the bow lines with belaying pins.

 

post-18498-0-98061200-1438622160_thumb.jpg

 

Here is an in progress of the bowsprit rigging to this point. The rest of the rigging will need the masts in place.

 

post-18498-0-61025700-1438622171_thumb.jpg

 

Next I will address the anchors and tiller set up.

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

She looks splendid Ken. You're doing a fantastic job!

 

Cheers 

GEORGE

 

MgrHa7Z.gif

 

Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Checked on the anchors setup and the plans showed a couple of details with the anchor loop being suspended from a hook. Checked for the hooks and none supplied. So I made my own using 1/32" brass rod. Here are the steps in fabrication for the benefit of others. Keep in mind this process can be used for any size of hook.

First I formed a half loop with ring pliers. The rod is being cold formed (not annealed).

post-18498-0-18044700-1438703512_thumb.jpg

 

Then I used looping pliers to form a small half loop in the opposite direction.

post-18498-0-10509000-1438703523_thumb.jpg

 

Next I used a 1/4" drift punch to form a taper down the hock loop. This requires holding the punch at a very slight angle down around the loop. The punch shoulder at the transition was cleaned up with a file. After satisfied with the hook the excess rod was cut off and the small top loop was finished by closing with the looping pliers. 

post-18498-0-97431900-1438703528_thumb.jpg

 

Here is a comparison of the two hooks to each other and a penny for size reference.

post-18498-0-63187200-1438703540_thumb.jpg

 

Here is the anchor rigged to the bow with the cathead rigged to the block with the hook in place. The hook was attached to the block using the .020" black beading wire. I added the haul in rope that is seized to the anchor shaft based upon a reference photo that still allowed the forward gun to still be fired.

 

post-18498-0-39936900-1438703552_thumb.jpg

 

This shows the double bowline that attaches the anchor line to the loop.

post-18498-0-55886000-1438703564_thumb.jpg

 

Now on to the rigging of the second anchor on the  starboard side. Does anyone have an image or drawing of what happens to the anchor rope once inside the bulwark? There should be a big coil for the two anchor lines.

 

 

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

David, thanks for your reassuring comment about the anchors. 

Now I am in the process of fabricating the chainplates, the large ones are completed and I am moving onto the smaller ones. Here are the fixtures used to form the various parts. All the pins are removable to allow forming of adjacent parts as needed. Again slow tedious fabricating of the smaller parts. These will then be added to the hull once all the sizes are made.

post-18498-0-70858000-1438966276_thumb.jpg

 

I have placed a large rope order with Chuck and am waiting for it to arrive; hopefully Monday or Tuesday.

In the meantime I will finish up the rest of the chainplates and affix them to the hull and decide which way is easier to rig the climbing lines.

 

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

I'm sure you'll like Chuck's rope Ken, as I've heard really good things about it. I'll be looking forward to what method you come up with for those ratlines. I've yet to find a build where the builder doesn't dread doing them, probably because of the monotonous nature of them.

GEORGE

 

MgrHa7Z.gif

 

Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

Posted

George, thanks and yes I am leaning to doing them in place with the masts in place as well. I am also thinking of soaking the main vertical lines once rigged to the mast with 50/50 white glue and water to stiffen them and hopefully hold them straight. 

 

More feedback on how to do these would be appreciated or a link to others efforts on how they did them.

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

I located a couple links you can reference Ken, in the "Masting and Rigging" section on the main page. Hope these help. http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10904-help-with-ratlines/#entry330604  and  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/9400-rat-lines-revisited-a-different-approach/#entry277539

GEORGE

 

MgrHa7Z.gif

 

Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Installed the first set of chainplates on the forward starboard side and thought I would share a picture of them before adjusting and painting them. The carriage bolt heads are #8 pins, some of which came with the kit but not near enough for all positions needed. Fortunately I have a package of 500 from previous model builds. I thought it interesting that some were angled to avoid gun interference. 

 

post-18498-0-83244100-1439071398_thumb.jpg

 

I will be working on the rest until my rope order arrives.

 

 

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

Chuck's rope order came in the mail today. We spent the weekend dog sitting our daughter's dogs at her house which gave me a chance to think about the ratlines and how to approach them. First I added two outboard guidelines using kit supplied rope rather than Chuck's rope. These were clove hitched to the bottom of the two outboard blocks making sure the holes in the blocks were clear; they were then tied off high on the mast touching the bolster to provide clearance for the ratlines to be tied. I also added a line to the port side as a counter tension line to keep the mast straight. I then lashed a wood strip to the guidelines the height of the tackle blocks needed so I had a reference point when rigging them.

Here are a couple of pictures of what I did.

post-18498-0-84063100-1439246563_thumb.jpg

 

post-18498-0-03438700-1439246574_thumb.jpg

 

This shows the first set in place. The three stays on the left with the smaller blacks will be rigged later.

 

post-18498-0-50679800-1439246585_thumb.jpg

 

Next to add the lines. Look close and you can see the difference between the kit supplied lines and Chuck's.

 

 

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

All the chain plates are in place and now adding the strops. I have managed to work around the davits without incident. Once all are in place I think I will add the mast stays before adding the ratlines. In checking around I have seen builds with the tackle lines brown; but the replica ship has grayed to charcoal lines which I am guessing were once black and have weathered so I elected to do them in black.

 

Chuck's rope is a pleasure to work with compared to the kit supplied rope. I did run across a couple of references that stated to soak the kit ropes in hot water; which I may try sometime.

 

Here is an in progress of the aft lines.

 

post-18498-0-84164500-1439497344_thumb.jpg

 

Now to continue on with the rest.

 

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

I did my tackle in brown & I'll give you my rationale. Typically, lines are black because they have been tarred & are permanently attached. I couldn't imagine belaying a tarred line to a pin so I went brown. I assumed that a line on a pin was meant to be adjusted/moved on occasion. Perhaps the replica ship used black rope. I could be all wrong on this, but I had to make an educated guess & this made sense to me.

Posted

Here are the pictures I used for reference and I am guessing they were black to start with and faded shades of gray. I thought if they were brown they would have faded to a lighter tan color. Like you I struggled and even purchased brown line to do them then found these photos. If gray was available I would have ordered it to replace the brown. This was my reasoning.

 

I only assume the replica may have done it correctly. Perhaps those with more knowledge could advise what the practice of the time period was.

 

post-18498-0-23647100-1439509615.jpg

post-18498-0-47450200-1439509667.jpg 

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

Ken,

 

The lanyards between the deadeyes were not tarred, as they had to be adjusted constantly, and would normally be tan.  The shrouds above the deadeyes would have been tarred.  Tarred lines are often represented with black thread, but dark brown is also valid.  Depending on the source and mixture of the tar (and age), it probably appeared in many different shades on different ships.

 

I think what you are seeing in those photo's is just regular rope (the lanyards) that's just darker than normal, either from aging or from wearing against the black blocks, who knows.  The second picture the lanyards are much lighter than they appear in the first, so it could also be simply a lighting/photo issue.

 

I used black line for the standing rigging on the Carmen, but plan to use dark brown on the current model just to be different.  Either is a perfectly good I think.

The one place that many people (including myself on the Carmen) use black for where it should probably be brown is the ratlines, as it seems that they were commonly not tarred.

Posted

Those lanyards might have been coated with a thinned out version of a tar solution protecting them from sea-spray and the like, but still leaving them "workable". I actually think they would have been belayed to themselves, or the shroud, just above the upper dead-eye though. Don't know for sure, but if I'm wrong, some will correct me I hope. 

GEORGE

 

MgrHa7Z.gif

 

Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Brian, George thanks for the feedback. They are in fact belayed to the shroud which is the way I did it. I am moving onto the mast stays and here is a picture of where they attach at the mast. What is interesting is the variety of line colors from tan, brown, dark brown and again the darker faded gray in the blocks of in the top of the photo. Again, these kind of look like what George has described. I imagine these lines once rigged do not move much but are only tightened after stretching; hence the treatment described by George. 

It looks like the mast stay is fed back through a loop in the end with a stop in the line and then on down to the bowsprit in the case of the foremast. If anyone has a better picture or drawing of this detail it would be appreciated.

Again thanks for the feedback and lessons learned. For now they will stay black.

post-18498-0-77004500-1439516840_thumb.jpg

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

My mistake. I thought you were talking about the tackles on some of the pendants that belay to pins, not the deadeye lines. I actually did those black.

Posted

Here's a source for reference pics of the Niagara that John (Texxn5) took while he was visiting the ship and museum. There's some really good, close-up photos on his website here: http://www.charleswmorganmodel.com/us-brig-niagra.html

GEORGE

 

MgrHa7Z.gif

 

Don't be bound by the limits of what you already know, be unlimited by what you are willing to learn.

 

Member of the Nautical Research Guild

Posted

Also, I can't over-recommend this - Rigging Period Ship Models by Lennarth Peterson - http://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Period-Models-Step---Step/dp/1557509700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439520903&sr=8-1&keywords=lennarth+peterson

 

It has very detailed drawings of each line on a typical square rigged ship.

 

His other book, Rigging Perioid Fore-and-Aft Craft - http://www.amazon.com/Rigging-Period-Fore---Aft-Craft/dp/1591147212/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1439520903&sr=8-3&keywords=lennarth+peterson

 

Goes over the lines on three different Fore-and-Aft rigged vessels.  Both books are superbly illustrated (actually, that's all they are, books full of illustrations and detail drawings for rigging) and just fantastic reference for how the lines are rigged and belayed.

Posted

George, thanks for the link; great pictures. I have saved some already. Brian those books look great. I have the Brig to finish and then next the Constitution by MS; which of these two books would be the best to get?

Ken

Current build: Maersk Detroit"
Future builds:  Mamoli HMS Victory 1:90
Completed builds: US Brig Niagara, Dirty Dozen, USS Constitution, 18th Century Armed Longboat
https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/11935-uss-constitution-by-xken-model-shipways-scale-1768/

 

Posted

Depends on whether you want the rigging for a fore-and-aft rig, or square!  For the Connie, the square rig seems like the obvious choice, and a lot of the various features (dead-eyes at shroud ends, various types of belaying) will work for both.

The Square rig book is the first listed (the one that doesn't have 'fore-and-aft' in the title).  

Posted

The stop in the line is called a "mouse". Here is a picture of one on the Niagara & a picture of a machine used to "raise a mouse".

post-11110-0-14757700-1439583844_thumb.jpg

post-11110-0-41246400-1439583845_thumb.jpg

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