USS Constitution by Modeler12 - Cross-Section - Bow Area

[Canute]

Jay, Connie's AOTS shows these spaces on a profile drawing on p 48-49 and the scuttle locations on the Orlop deck plan view/framing on p 72-73.

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jay.

Nice to see a forward cross section being built.

Your resurch and planning are spot on.

Your first frame looks real nice.

 

Regards Antony.

[Modeler12]

Jay, Connie's AOTS shows these spaces on a profile drawing on p 48-49 and the scuttle locations on the Orlop deck plan view/framing on p 72-73.

I am aware of those drawings (that's why I mentioned the powder room in my initial plans), but what do they really look like? Do they take up the full beam?  What about the heavy outlines? Is there a special material to surround this area? What size are the powder barrels?

 

The light room is of course a main 'attraction' and I am toying with the idea of adding some real light there. But, again. I would love to see what the tiny room looks like from the outside.

According to the plans, the sail room is above the powder room on the orlop deck, but what is on the starboard side of the sail room?

Could it be that the powder room is really on the orlop deck????

Lots of little details to think about.     

 

Just curious: if the powder room was/is really in the bilges instead on the orlop deck, I would think that any water down there would be a real problem. But, as you said, that is what the AOTS shows.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Modeler12

[Canute]

Jay, have you checked out Jeff Staudt's work over on MSB? He's done up a magazine section model and cited a list of 4 references for powder magazines. Another reference, here on MSW, is EdT's Naiad build. Just trying to help, mate. You scratch-builders are my heroes.

[Modeler12]

Thanks Ken. I will check this out.

My computer firewall warns me that the MSB site is 'dangerous' but I cannot believe that. So, here goes.

 

No. To become a member MSB insists on having personal information that I do not want to share. eg home address, birth date, etc.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Modeler12

[Canute]

Jay, can't you view pages there without being fully logged onto the site?

[trippwj]

Thanks Ken. I will check this out.

My computer firewall warns me that the MSB site is 'dangerous' but I cannot believe that. So, here goes.

 

No. To become a member MSB insists on having personal information that I do not want to share. eg home address, birth date, etc.

Email the Admin to get set up as a member at MSB. 

 

Winston Scoville

 

email: winston @ modelshipbuilder dot com  (remove spaces and replace "dot" with "."

 

If you wish to become a member of the site please include the following info in your email (it will save an email or two):

 

Real Name:

Username: (for login puroses only. must be one name with no spaces)

Password: (can be changed after you login)

Email Address: (AOL email addresses not currently accepted due to technical issues in the past with AOL)

 

I don't see any place there on my profile that that information was requested.  Are you sure you were at the right site - http://modelshipbuilder.com ?

[mtaylor]

I never log in other there and the images show just fine.   Then again, I'll never be able to as I use AOHell for email.

[Modeler12]

 

I don't see any place there on my profile that that information was requested.  Are you sure you were at the right site - http://modelshipbuilder.com ?

Wayne, when you go to the part where you request to become a member, you'll see what information they want. I figured that I had to be a member to get into the details and ask questions (like here).

It is a new requirement, hence old members are not included.

I'll do as you suggest some other time.

[trippwj]

Very odd - I can not find any link at MSB where you can register - just the email the Admin link!

[Modeler12]

Wayne, that is probably because you are already a member.

 

But go to http://www.shipmodeling.net/vb_forum/new_application.html

and then the link at the bottom of that 'register' page.

 

If I provide honest answers it would be very easy for anyone to find my home address and other details that I rather keep to myself. Why would they want to know where I live and how old I am?

Edited April 28, 2015 by Modeler12

[trippwj]

You are at the wrong website, Jay.  You want to be at http://www.modelshipbuilder.com(www modelshipbuilder com)

[Modeler12]

You are at the wrong website, Jay.  You want to be at http://www.modelshipbuilder.com(www modelshipbuilder com)

You are right again. I didn' t know that there were so many forums on the web.

Despite the warning I get, I will probe the model ship builder site.

Thanks for steering me on the right course.

[Modeler12]

To continue with my model building:

 

Cutting the frame sets is taking a long time. One of the difficulties is that each frame has a slightly different shape. For example, below I show the first and l5th frame sets. The first ten or so are not too bad, but the further I get to the bow, the more I have to allow for the taper. 

(I tried to insert a picture here and it did not work. I get a black stripe with the Sucuri firewall emblem)

 

For the time being, I am inserting spacers near the top. When those all look decent, I'll go ahead and glue the frames to the keel/keelson.

(this one worked???)

[Cap'n Rat Fink]

Jay just go the modelshipbuilder.com front page click on projects and you find the aft magazine section project of Jeff's. I'm a member there to.

 

Mario

[GLakie]

A bunch of us have been having the same problems Jay. You'll need to PM Jim Hatch (Administrator) with your I.P. address so he can "Whitelist" you into the system. For some reason, recent changes in the system left it with some bugs. Here's the thread on this: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10405-sucuri-warning/page-2#entry311988

[Modeler12]

Thanks George. I sent the IP adress and we will see what happens next.

 

Just on the side. I happen to be having other problems and contacted the Goonsquad. Besides fixing a bunch of problems, the tech spent at least half an hour this morning trying to figure out how he could solve the picture posting problem. Of course, we both realized that it was not my computer but the firewall at the web site.

 

Now all of sudden it works. Here is the picture I tried to include in my last message on the page before.

It shows the difference between the first and last frame sets.

Edited April 30, 2015 by Modeler12

[CaptainSteve]

Looks like a challenging project, Jay ... but we all know you are up to the task !!

[Modeler12]

Looks like a challenging project, Jay ... but we all know you are up to the task !!

Thanks Steve. I thought maybe you were going to ask me what I was doing with the 'Goonsquad'. 

 

What I meant was the 'Geeksquad'. That is a company here in the US with all these bright geeks who can fix computer problems. 

In my case it was all done on-line, but they also have VWs running around fixing hardware problems. Great service.

Their charge was a lot less than the 5 Gs it would have cost me with the goonsquad.

[Canute]

Wasn't the Goons some UK TV show back in the. 60s?

[mtaylor]

Well done, Jay.  Frames are fun, right?   Right????  er... maybe????????

 

Ken.. that was the "Goonies"... a Monty Python-ish group.   I loved their show also.

[Modeler12]

Well done, Jay.  Frames are fun, right?   Right????  er... maybe????????

I am sure you are the 'expert' on frames and how to correct mistakes. I may ask for your help pretty soon, dear friend.

But first let me plug along and see how far I get.

 

I am using a band-saw with a fine blade to cut the contours, and I am leaving a bit more on both edges for the final sanding. 

I could tilt the table of the saw but that gets to be complicated as well. So, we try and try again.

[mtaylor]

That's what I and many of the others do... cut them straight and then fair like crazy in place.   The problem is that the angle usually isn't constant from top to bottom.  

[Modeler12]

Gratings - my approach to custom sizes.

 

Jumping ahead and doing a bit more planning, I came across two places where I need some grating. The parts that came with the kit were cut using lasers. I don't have one, so how do I make the grating?

 

The space that I have to work with is 0.72 x 0.44 inches. When I tried to use the commercially available grating they just looked to gross and would not fit the above. The picture below shows one such that would have openings (full size) that would be about 6.4 inches across. A picture of the USS Constitution shows the grating to be about 1/2 that amount.

 

What I did was to drill small holes evenly spaced and let it go at that (for now). Here is the set-up on my mill and the first crack at it. I might add here that I tried to make the holes square by using a tiny file and even a special square pick, but that just did not work. The holes are too small for filing. The square pick does not remove material; it just forces the fibers aside (which caused the parts to break). I even tried to make a broach by filing notches in the edges of the pick. Again not much luck there.

 

Now for some math:

Let's say you have an opening that is known in one direction, dimension A. You want the holes, D, to be about .04 inch diameter. You want a border, E, to be reasonably small. What would be the spacing? The rough sketch below shows the formulas that are involved. What I am after is the spacing, C.

The second and third sketches show the calculations after I picked some numbers for the hole size and edge conditions. After some juggling with these dimensions, I arrived at something I could work with. The results of this led me to make the first prototype.

 

The upshot is that you can make gratings with very small holes that maybe are not square but at least look more reasonable in size. It gives me a way out for this model.

[mtaylor]

Jay..

The width of the lath between the holes should equal the hole (opening) size.  It's pretty much a rule of thumb as I understand it.  Some ships had wider laths for strength but the hole (full-size) should be more than 2 1/2" square.  Any bigger and the heel of shoe could get caught in it.  Given Murphy's Law, that would naturally happen at the worst possible moment. 

[Modeler12]

Jay..

The width of the lath between the holes should equal the hole (opening) size.  It's pretty much a rule of thumb as I understand it.  Some ships had wider laths for strength but the hole (full-size) should be more than 2 1/2" square.  Any bigger and the heel of shoe could get caught in it.  Given Murphy's Law, that would naturally happen at the worst possible moment. 

Let me understand what you mentioned, Mark.

The width of the lath has to be the hole size, but should also be not more than 2.5 inches square. For a model at 1:76 scale that means that the slats would be equal to or less than 2.5/76 = .033 inches.

 

To make gratings by the 'usual' technique of cutting slats and slots with those dimensions would be tricky, to say the least. I can cut slots in a piece of wood that are 1/32 inch apart but when I try to slice them off the 'log' I end up with a lot of scrap.

 

My point is that the width of the slot (and the slat) are just a function of the opening you have to work with and that they can be varied as long as you can live with a round hole (which is barely visible at the smaller scales).

 

BTW can you show me an example of grating made with 1/32 inch square pieces? Perhaps Jeff did, but I wonder if anyone else can do the same.

It still leaves the question about fitting them to the space we have to work with (dimension A in my case).

Edited May 10, 2015 by Modeler12

[mtaylor]

Jay,

 

What are using for a saw to cut off the laths?   If it's table saw, which blade?

[Modeler12]

Mark,

If I were to cut slats (which I am not doing), I would need a blade that is also 0.032 inch wide (which I don't have).

I don't want to buy such a blade for the two pieces of grating I need. Hence I am using the method I describe above.

If I had to make a lot of grating of the same dimensions I might give the slat approach another try. But not now.

[mtaylor]

Jay,

 

I was thinking of the saw for cutting the laths off the slab after making the grooves.   I know I've seen a couple of logs around here where the building made some using hand tools. 

 

Maybe a fallback position is needed....  ModelExpo (and other places) sell the grating strips in various widths..and then there's the Chuck Grates. 

[Modeler12]

Here is my fallback position.

 

The grating once installed do show the round holes, but the spacing is much better than I can get with slats.

Keep in mind that the width and length of the grating is dictated by the thickness of the frames into which they fit and that is determined by the spacing of the beams. Thus the frame has to be located such that the hatch opening lines up with the beams and carlings underneath. That will show in great detail when I start putting the open frame work together. 

 

 

There is another 'discrepancy' between the full model drawings and Marquardt's book (page 71). The hatch and slats above the stove should also line up with the beams. Marquardt seems to have it right whereas the model plans has this grating too short. Below is my version (including the brass screws for the planks). The chimney will sit on top of these planks.

Then there is another 'difference' on the same book page. The large frame and grating are much wider than the model plans. Since I am building this model to correspond to the full size model, I have opted to make the narrower frame.