USS Constitution by Modeler12 - Cross-Section - Bow Area

[GLakie]

Your definitely doing your research Jay! Gratings and beams look nice and clean! It'll be a marvel to see it going together. 

[mtaylor]

Jay,

 

Your fallback position is the one that works for you.  And it looks like it will work.    I like the way that is coming together along with listening on the research. 

[Modeler12]

Thanks George,

Below is a picture of the ship in Boston. Notice towards the bow that the fife rail sticks out to the left beyond the width of the main hatch. The book's drawing on page 71 is not anywhere close to that. It is too wide, unless the drawings depict an earlier version.

At least this makes me feel better.

 

[mtaylor]

Jay,

 

In the book, is the hatch "4' grates wide or "3" wide?  The picture show "4".   I'm wondering if there might have been a change somewhere.  I know that the overhaul/rebuild in '29 changed a lot of things and they're just now beginning to go back to the way she sat in 1812.   A long way to go on the one for sure.  Does Marquardt specify his point in time for his drawings? 

 

I know, the debate on the Constitution is as confusing as the one's on Victory.

[GLakie]

I see that Jay, and I can see that the main-mast fife rail in the picture mirrors my spar deck plans exactly, also in the plans the fore-mast one is shorter by 2 planks on each side, making it the narrower one.  The book must be referring to an earlier time, maybe.

[Modeler12]

Jay,

 

In the book, is the hatch "4' grates wide or "3" wide?  The picture show "4".   I'm wondering if there might have been a change somewhere.  I know that the overhaul/rebuild in '29 changed a lot of things and they're just now beginning to go back to the way she sat in 1812.   A long way to go on the one for sure.  Does Marquardt specify his point in time for his drawings? 

 

I know, the debate on the Constitution is as confusing as the one's on Victory.

The book also shows four grates across the beam. But each one is therefore much wider. In particular the one next to the stairs. However the next one has only two very wide gratings (with the central 'beam' going the full length. But then again he does not show the grating per sec, only the opening of the hatch.

 

In his foreword, Marquardt mentions the various refits and the shortfalls taken during the time since 1812. He also refers to the plans for redoing the ship to the 1812 plans. I get the impression that his book depicts that era. So, perhaps the grating he shows is indeed from 1812.

Having said that, I still find several areas where he is not consistent and apparently relied on drawings provided by other sources. The spacing of the beams and support posts in one example. 

 

In defense of Marquardt I should say that despite a few 'hickups' I appreciate the effort he went to in putting this book together. If it had not been for all the details he shows, I would never had to guts to start this build.

Edited May 15, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Update:

I have been busy cutting strips of wood for the various locations. The picture below shows some and the kind of wood I am using where.

Earlier I showed a couple of beams and how they influence the size and location of the hatches. But there is more to this and I will go into that later.

 

I started with the frame-work of the orlop deck, the lowest deck. Again I am taking some liberties since the 'plans' in the book don't go into a lot of details. For example, I decided that since this deck is well below the waterline and should not get 'wet', there is no reason for the beams and deck to have sideways curvature. I am making mine flat except for some curvature towards the bow.

You may notice the one opening for the 'scuttle'  or opening from the orlop deck down to the powder room.

I will have more about that lower portion of the ship when I show what I want to do with the powder room. 

 

I also decided to add not only the carlings but the ledges as well. They are all fitted into slots cut on my mill. By way of perspective: the ledges are 0.060 x 0.080 inch (4.5 x 6.0 inch full scale). You might say 'why not square?' It turns out that the slabs of holly I used was 1/16 inch thick. And anyway, in my opinion, ledges should be narrow and deep if they are going to carry any weight.

 
 

The whole idea here is to do as much 'bench-work' as possible. Later when I am ready to install this there will be a template and the sides will be cut to match. Hence, the beams and ledges along the side will be trimmed and fitted.

 

Not to belabour (belabor) the points about gratings and hatches, but you might notice the hatch frames to the left. The actual hatch is wider in the aft direction (left) because this is also the area where the anchor ropes come down and are stored further aft. This will not be included, but I think a piece of rope will show the idea much further downstream in this project. 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

A few comments about the powder room.

Reading a few descriptions and 'the book', I have come to the following conclusions about the forward powder room, the place where kegs of powder were stored and the cartridges were filled.

The room is enclosed entirely to prevent moisture from entering during the filling process. I show it roughly below.

The magazine and fill room are below the orlop deck and accessible through the hatch as shown. This is where the kegs would go through, but when the open powder was used this scuttle would be closed off. There is another scuttle just forward of the fore-mast and that is where the crew would go to deliver the cartridges to the gun deck (scuttle is beyond my model). A door in the wall would provide access to this scuttle.

 

The light room would not be part of the powder room and windows would let light through to the tub of gun powder so the young men working there would have some light. The light room would be reached from above (the orlop deck).

I need to prepare detailed drawings yet, but I think this is pretty close to what the powder room would look like. Since this is the lowest part of the ship, I will show as much detail as I can, even though my intent is still to have the structural parts be emphasized along the starboard side. For example, the orlop beams and carlings would only show on one side while the deck planking, sail-room, carpenter's walk etc. would be complete on the port side. That is why I did not include the ledges along the port side.

[mtaylor]

Rock on, Jay.  It appears to be a great plan.

[Modeler12]

Rock on, Jay.  It appears to be a great plan.

You know Mark, I might even wire this thing with a couple LEDs so there will be a real light in the light room. Otherwise no one will understand what this is all about.

I have done this previously with a couple windmills I made some years ago and, if nothing else, it makes an interesting night light.

[Modeler12]

Here are two more pieces that I decided to make in advance. They are the riding bits on the gun deck, used to hold the anchor cables.

I thought it would be important that they would fit both the gun deck beam and the berth deck beam when finally installed.

The knees (not too clear in the assembled picture) rest on top of a long 'plank' or support that straddles three beams. I will also add some bolts at various locations and then it should fit in place when the gun deck beams are all in place.

 

It is a good thing I did this, because a trial fit showed that two of the carlings on the berth deck would be right underneath the vertical posts. It was a simple matter of moving those carlings just a bit further out.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

I know I jump around a lot, but here is another subject that got my attention. Deck planking and its caulking.

 

I was not aware that others here had used black paper on the edges of deck beams to simulate the caulking. Bob Hunt had suggested using a black marking pen to coat one edge and that is what I used on the deck planks of the 'mother' model. But they did not show well and were not clearly defined. So, I had to try black paper (and at this point I don't care if it is black or dark brown).

 

My first tries involved spraying contact cement on the paper, etc. It worked but the ends tended to come loose. Next I used carpenters glue (the yellow stuff), but I have always had trouble getting a nice even coat on narrow parts. This time I used a piece of old glass and a steel ruler to smear a thin coat of glue that I could then use to dip the edges of the planks. It worked a lot better as shown below. 

 

The picture below shows some planks that I used in my first experiment, but look at the four planks to the left. The paper I used was .010 inch thick which would result in a line too thick (0.75 inch real). Others suggested to use thin tissue paper, but that becomes a real mess (especially when you try to coat it with adhesive). After I made some planks with my paper and the glue was set, I used some 1000 grid paper to sand the black paper.

 

Low and behold, the paper is layered and the 'sanding' resulted in removing one of those layers. I don't know how much, but at least the thickness has been reduced enough to give the edge a decent 'caulking'. Notice in the picture below, however, that the edge of the plank has to be very smooth, otherwise the black shows 'dents' or imperfections. Then again, that may not be all that bad in real life.

 

Edited May 22, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

One more thing about the pictures above. They also show my tries at 'tree nailing'.

What I did is to use thin brass wire, drilled the same diameter hole in the plank and used some CA glue to set the wire in place. 

I think I covered this earlier.

However, what I wanted is to have the wire be black (not shiny brass). So, after sanding the surface, I applied a drop of my blackening agent, quickly rinsed that with water, dried it and applied a coat of rub-on poly.

 

The alignment of the tree nails is not good, but the idea is there. This is not as hard as it may sound and it works. If you want more details about sizes etc. let me know.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Modeler12

[mtaylor]

Jay,

 

I like the caulking.  Even the "defects" look like what one sees on a real ship.

 

Have a look at EdT's log.  Ed uses copper wire and liver of sulfur for black nails.  Quite few others are now using it as it doesn't stain the wood like blackening solutions.

 

The nice thing about MSW and this hobby is that there's a 1000 & 1 ways to do things....   Anyway, the liver of sulfur and copper are thought.

[Modeler12]

Thanks Mark,

I will look into this. I have some copper wire and can get the liver of sulfur at a local jewelry store (I hope). 

I also found a good article about how to handle the stuff. Now I have to find a place to use it since the sulfur can smell pretty badly.     

http://www.hodgepodgerie.com/liver-of-sulfur-patina.html

 

What I like about the brass is that it is stiff and easy to force into the pre-drilled hole with a pair of pliers. The blackening solution I use seems to attack the brass very quickly and not do harm to the wood as long as I wipe it off with a damp cloth right away. Of course, once I apply the patina I cannot sand the surface again without removing the oxide. Hence the wipe-on-poly.

I will keep an eye open for the samples I prepared and see what happens with time.

 

 

[Modeler12]

Mark, I think I will stick with my method of using brass and the blackening solution I have.

Below is a close-up of the four planks I showed earlier. It has been only four days but there is absolutely no indication that the patina had any effect on the wood. The width of each plank is 1/8 inch (holly).

The only problem of using metal tree-nails is that the surface has to be sanded. Scraping (like I have done before) will not work; even though I used a drop of CA glue on the back side when inserting the brass wire.

In fact, as I look at this close-up I noticed that a bit more sanding with a finer paper would have been good. Something I need to keep in mind.

[Modeler12]

I posed the question about gunpowder barrels in another place. I think it was removed which is fine because it did not lead to anything serious.

However, a bit of further searching led to the following:
 

1. Wooden barrels were used to hold just under 100 pounds of gunpowder. I will calculate the size based on this info and use it to make my barrels with copper foil for the hoops.

2. The hoops of the barrels were made of copper. Iron hoops were not allowed because of the possibility of sparks.

3. For the same reason tools such as hammers were also made of copper.

4. To open a barrel, it was set on end and the top hoop was removed by hitting it with the copper hammer and punch. This loosened the top cover which could then be removed to expose the powder inside.

5. Other tools such as the scoop to transfer the powder to the 'filling station' or open box were also made of copper or wood.

 

Here is the reference for some of this on pages 403 and 404

https://books.google.com/books?id=EryS0HCykUkC&pg=PA404&dq=why+use+copper+on+gunpowder+barrels&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uOJhVbX3Nca2sAXkyoHwAQ&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=why%20use%20copper%20on%20gunpowder%20barrels&f=false

 

PS There is an interesting quote on the bottom of page 341 about Naval Happiness.

A quick calculation of the size leads to a height of about 20 inches and diameter of 13 inches. Thus not too far from the one shown as a 'seat' in the picture above. This is based on a specific gravity for gun powder of 1.5.

Small barrels with lots of poooof!

Edited May 24, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

Here are some more details about how the cartridges made in the gunpowder room were transferred to the gun deck.

I found this picture on Wikipedia of a drawing of a French ship firing a cannon. There are several details of interest, but the one I zeroed in on was the boy holding the leather pouch which probably held the cartridges ready for reloading the next round.

 

On top of the USS Constitution there are several holes, covered with a brass lid, that were probably used by young boys to shove these pouches, full of gunpowder cartridges, from the deck below. The pouches were filled in the powder room and the leather protected the cartridges from moisture. The idea of young boys running around with cartridges stuffed in their shirts is outlandish to me, unless it was a last effort.

 

My guess is that the leather pouch was about eight to ten inches in diameter and 18 to 22 inches long. The hole in the spar deck of my model is about 14 inches OD (with lid in place). So my guess is that the hole was about 12 inches in diameter, enough for the pouch.

So, in my cross section I will have to include some pouches

[Modeler12]

Moving along with the berth deck:

This is a bit more difficult than the orlop deck. The beams are curved and with all the carlings and stringers it becomes hard to keep track of how to cut the slots (mortises) for each one. My mill comes in handy. I use a 1/16th inch cutter to make these slots. Most of the time I do this on the beam or carling, but there have been a couple times when I needed to add some more and then I have to mount the whole thing on the mill table.

 

Making the 'knees' is another interesting proposition. Here I used a piece of boxwood of the same thickness as the beams, drilled a couple holes for the inside curve, filed, and slotted this for two stringers (ledges). It is a lot of extra work and there will be lot more to come.

 

 

[mtaylor]

Beautiful work, Jay.  I'm surprised you're milling the whole deck assembly.  That has to be scary but one has to do what one has to do.. or something like that. 

[GLakie]

That's some lovely work you're doing on the decks Jay. Interesting too!

 

Cheers

[Modeler12]

Thanks Mark and George,

For this cross section I am taking a chance that putting the six inch long decks together on the work bench and then inserting them into the framed hull will work. Obviously it is not something that would work on a full model.

This way I can do a lot of work (such as all those thin pieces of joists) without having the frames get in my way.

The exception will be when I have to install knees along the outside edges of the orlop deck for example. However, again I will only do that along the starboard side since the other side will be planked over.

 

Now I need a break and do a few other things around the house. The admiral has spoken.

[usedtosail]

Nice info on the barrels and ammo scuttles. Do you think those scuttles have always been in the spar deck or could they have been added in later refits of the Constitution? 

[Modeler12]

Nice info on the barrels and ammo scuttles. Do you think those scuttles have always been in the spar deck or could they have been added in later refits of the Constitution? 

Good question. There have been so many things that were changed that it is hard to tell the original from the current.

It would seem, though, that to add these scuttles during a refit would not make much sense unless they had a good purpose. When I found that picture of the boy holding the pouch it dawned on me that there was a purpose for those 'ammo passing scuttles'.

 

Of course they may also have been used to pass cannon balls from below. And they were not only on the  spar deck. Here is a picture of one on the gun deck (with strangely different size balls).

[usedtosail]

Thanks Jay. So I will add them to both decks then. 

[Modeler12]

Just for fun here is an addition to the orlop deck. It is the cover to the entrance to the gunpowder room below.

This is still loose and I can install it later raised or lowered, depending . . .?

Notice also the opening top right which will be the stairway to the light room, also down below.

There are going to be walls/partitions to show the 'sail room', the boatswain's store room and, of course, the 'carpenter's walk'.

But they will have to wait until I know exactly how high the gun deck up above will be.

Also in the picture are the slots for the ledges fitted later on in the carlings.

 

 

 

[GLakie]

It looks like your sub-assembly method's working out quite well Jay. Wasn't sure, at first, how it was being assembled, but I see now. Nice! 

 

Cheers

[JSGerson]

I just discovered your "new" build log today. New for me but you've started it back in March. I was wondering if you were aware of the work of Gene Bodnar at Model Ship Builder who built not one, but three cross sections of the Connie (1:32 scale) which could be put together to form the complete hull? If not take a look at his build log.

 

BTW nice work on this build too.

[Modeler12]

Indeed JS, I have seen pictures of Gene's model. I believe it is on display at the museum in Boston.

 

I have a long way to go and taking my time for this project. Right now I am putting some plans and details together for the forward powder room that goes in the bottom. But I am also working on the various decks, as you may have noticed.

[Modeler12]

The walls of the powder room will be 1/32 inch boxwood. I made the windows using a piece of clear plastic, sanded to remove the release agent and give the windows a translucent look. The trim is made of some veneer which I will also use for the vertical firring strips. 

The muntins are made of pin striping tape, 0.010 inch wide, glued in place with some CA. I may do this again and try to align these tiny pieces a bit better. Just for scale, 10 mil equates to 3/4 inch full size and I tried to keep the wood strips to about three inch width.

 

Next to it is the same wall with an LED in the 'light room' behind the windows.All of this is loose and will be cut to fit and installed later.

 

 

BTW The LEDs I ordered are rather large and bright. I should have bought the smaller versions. However, the brightness can be reduced by painting the LED with some white paint. They do not generate heat, so there is no problem there.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Modeler12