Revenge by Emelbe - Amati/Victory Models - 1/64 scale

[Apollo]

Hi Martin,

Greetings from Spain.

 

Another one starting the Revenge kit (I have received it today). I'm new in this forum, and this will be my second boat, but with the manual and your very detailed log,it's sure it will be very easy.

 

Welcome to the forum. The kit is fairly straightforward with the included detailed instructions and very accurately fitting components, much easier than other kits with spartan manuals and/or poor-fitting parts requiring significant modification to get everything properly worked out. Amati released a fantastic kit, one which was sorely needed for this historical period. That said...

 

Hey Martin, it is looking great. I like your idea of pre-planking the decks I have always been a bit leery of this thinking the decks would not bend to the camber of the bulkheads, obviously you had no problems. Nice work and enjoy your time in Crete.

 

Regarding the decks, in hindsight, I highly recommend Martin's approach to plank the two halves of the gun deck starting from the center-line whether you decide to plank on or off the hull. It is my only regret thus far in my build. If you follow the instructions to the letter, the end result will be a gap running down the middle of the deck. This is evident in Chris' prototype as pictured in the manual. If you're skilled you might manage to minimize or even avoid a gap, but in my opinion it won't be an easy affair and won't look as nice as having a seamlessly planked deck instead. Compare manual pictures on p.7 to Martin's excellent work in the beginning of this thread. Some people might not mind the gap since the upper deck will largely conceal it, however there will be open gratings directly above, so it will be visible when peering through unless you cover it with deck furniture.

 

If you decide to plank the gun deck from the center-line as one piece off the hull, it will be very difficult to insert it between the bulkheads once planking is completed. The deck is considerably wider than the top of the bulkheads due to tumblehome, and it will force them out of conformity risking breakage. I was compelled to modify my deck to reduce the unsightly gap by removing some material where the two MDF halves meet in order to close the gap as much as possible. Then I glued the two halves to ensure the gap remained minimal before I inserted the deck into the hull. To get the gun deck acceptable in my eyes, the project was delayed several weeks. You'll find that even if you don't have much of a gap, it might worsen once it is inserted in the hull because the pieces are still separate, necessitating the application of force from both sides as well as the top to ensure proper seating whilst gluing therein. All of this is avoidable if one proceeds as Martin did.

 

I followed the manual's instructions and planked the deck off the hull because it is much easier to sand the deck down after planking is finished. Also, any other work done to or upon the deck such as adding the gratings, fittings, etc. and detailing work is also easier when there are no bulkheads to get in the way. If I was to redo this Amati kit, I'd plank the gun deck as a whole unit from the center-line just like the orlop deck beneath it, and cut the section of the gun deck forward of the planked portion where the bowsprit opening is located under the forecastle, for far better ease of installation between the bulkheads (and less risk) after all work on the deck is completed. Then simply glue the previously cut unplanked forecastle sections with part 4b on the hull to finish the gun deck off. Part 4b will hide the cut and joins the previously removed forward part to the rest of the gun deck once everything is in the hull. In my lengthy ordeal to have the gun deck reworked, I removed the forward unplanked section and the glued planked halves went in the hull as a single piece with much less hassle.

 

I have other opinions about suggested changes to this kit but I'll leave that for another time until I'm further in the build. Thanks Martin for this great thread on the Amati Revenge kit!

Edited August 26, 2015 by Apollo

[juancar]

Thanks Martin and Apollo,

And yes, I have choosen this kit for the manual. The other boat that I did was from Occre, and it had 3 pages of manual and just 2 plans, so I did a lot of mistakes just for lack of information. Also the wood quality was horrible, Some parts were broken just by putting your finger on, and I had to call Occre and order the broken parts(at least the sent it for free). The new ones was better quality (not too much but better), so I could finish it, but very unhappy with the result.

Just opening this new kit I have seen the difference, and I'm very happy with this purchase.

We'll see if I'm good enough for the kit

Edited August 25, 2015 by juancar

[Apollo]

Hi Juancar,

 

I was on the fence whether to purchase the Amati or Occre Revenge model and decided on the Amati kit for its larger scale plus lower deck details even though it was less affordable. I'm glad I made this choice after reading your post. I'm sure you'll thoroughly enjoy building this kit. Which Occre kit did you build?

[juancar]

It was the Albatros (Goleta Albatros, I don't know how to say Goleta in English). It's a kit for beginners, but just for that I think that it need a good manual and better materials.

[Emelbe]

Hi Apollo, Juancar,

 

Just a little thought I had looking at the decks. I'm wondering why Amati didn't go for the laser engraved decks on some of the hidden decking like they have in their Mercury kit?  I'm not saying I like the engraved decking but that would have at least given the builder the option to plank or not, there's a lot of work involved with the decks, much of which can't be seen unless you start peering through gunports or hatches.  Having said that I still agree they have certainly set the bar for future kits, and it's certainly an enjoyable one to work on, I can't fault the quality of materials etc.  

I'm just in the middle of cleaning everything up ready for a quick photo session so I can post the latest progress before my holidays, so back soon

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[juancar]

Hi Martin,

 

Well, its just my second boat, so I can not comment yet, but just at this moment I was thinking of using the lower deck to test how to plank the upper decks. Mi idea is to use full length planks in some parts (may be the borders), and cut in small batches the rest, so I can see how it looks (the manual uses full length).

 

One question. In the manual and in your photos, the lower deck is just one piece (number 197), but in my kit I have 2 parts (197a & 197b)   .Is this correct, or may be they have change something in the kit?

 

Regards,

Juancar

[amateur]

The designer of this kit (Chris Watton) has shown us the development of this kit. He has tried to design the kit in such a way that it does give a stunning model if build out of the box, but has also plenty of opportunities to go even further.

The results is therefore a model that is very detailed at all (deck)levels. So, the choice to go for planking an dnot for lasered parts is a deliberate one. (as far as I understood the presentation of the kit)

 

Jan

[Emelbe]

Hi Juancar

 

No, thats OK you need to join the two parts first.  To be honest, you see very little of that deck so it's a great place to experiment if your unsure how you want to plank.  There's no problem fitting this deck after planking so the way I approached it was to start along the centreline and work out, you should find the planks turn out even on both sides due to the accuracy of the laser cutting.  

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Emelbe]

Hi Jan,

 

Your quite right when you say a stunning model can be produced straight from the box with plenty of options for super-detailing if you want.  My comment regarding laser etching the decks was just a thought, I personally would plank every time.  That's why I wondered why they went for it on their Mercury, did Chris design that as well?  

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Emelbe]

Hi All

 

Latest update coming up!  I think progress hasn’t been too bad since the last post, the side panels are fitted and She’s starting to look like a ship at last.

 

Fitting the side panels wasn’t the stressful experience I thought it might have been, they just needed a little trimming here and there to line up properly, whether or not it was the time I spent earlier setting them up of just sheer good luck we’ll never know.  Before fitting I sprayed them with a couple of coats of white primer to fill the grain and then finished it off with white acrylic.  Just for your information the best acrylic sprays I’ve found are from the Citadel range, they’re the ones who do the Warhammer games and have wonderful names like Chaos Black, Skull White, Vomit Green etc.  they go on evenly and dry quickly leaving a nice sheen finish.

 

 

 

 

Once the side panels were in place I fitted the inner bulwarks to strengthen the joint. The bulwarks  are made from one piece and are impossible to fit neatly as they are, as they need cutting to both length and height and then slotted to fit over the decorative strips on the bulkheads (if anyone has any ideas how to do this please tell me).  The only solution I could come up with was to cut them in half and fit in two parts. It’s no big deal as I’m going to plank them anyway.

 

 

The whale above the gunports I set in much the same way as the others, using a strip of 4mm walnut lined up with the gunport tops and measurements taken from the plan to make sure it ran parallel to the others.  I then planked in-between the whales, which was a little bit fiddly to make sure there were no unsightly gaps. I’m not going to bang on about if there were some 5mm strip it would have been easier, I think I’ve said enough about that (get over it Martin!!!).  Planking above the whale is straightforward especially as that will be covered in decoration at a later stage.

 

 

 

 

So, all in all, I think the critical bits have been done now, and to be honest, without too much trauma.  Most of the work left on the hull is mainly cosmetic, so hopefully it will be just a case of taking my time and working as neatly as possible.  Time-wise, this is week seven since I started so I reckon just under 300 hours (it’s great being retired and the missus still working).  I’m not sure if I’ll get chance to post before my holiday, so if not, see you when I get back.

 

Cheers or should I say Yamas (think that's Greek for cheers)

 

Martin

 

 

 

 

[yvesvidal]

Very impressive. This is going to be a beautiful model.

How would you rate the kit, now tat you have reached a definitive stage in the construction?

 

Yves

[GuntherMT]

Nice progress Martin, and she is definitely building into a spectacular model.  

[Emelbe]

Hi Yves, Brian

 

Thanks for your comments.  Yves, in answer to your question, how would I rate this kit:  firstly I don't think it's suitable as a first build, but anyone with a little experience should be able tackle this project comfortably as long as they take their time and study the drawings, manual etc.  The design is excellent and well thought out, when I say that it's not 'shake the box and a ship falls out', but the whole sequence of build is logical.  The quality of materials and accuracy of cut parts are excellent.  My only real criticism is the strip-wood supplied, which according to the instructions, is the wrong size (here I go again, I thought I'd got over that). There are a couple of minor things where I think commercialism has overcome design such as cannon carriages and a lot of fittings are Amati standard, but it's not really that much of an issue. If I were to score out of 10, I would give it an easy 9.5.  Would I recommend this kit, definitely. 

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[Apollo]

The designer of this kit (Chris Watton) has shown us the development of this kit. He has tried to design the kit in such a way that it does give a stunning model if build out of the box, but has also plenty of opportunities to go even further.

The results is therefore a model that is very detailed at all (deck)levels. So, the choice to go for planking an dnot for lasered parts is a deliberate one. (as far as I understood the presentation of the kit)

 

Jan

Hi Jan,

 

Absolutely, Chris and Amati did an amazing job with this kit. I don't see how anyone can be disappointed especially if the buyer is specifically seeking a large Elizabethan galleon to build, which isn't easy to find. I concur with Martin and rate the Revenge kit at least a 9/10 myself solely on the merits of fit accuracy and material quality let alone instructions, given what I've seen of other kits both in person and on the web. You're right that one can go further if one desires or alternatively, if you prefer less work and want to expedite the build you can also forego planking the lower decks altogether, so it's a highly flexible kit both ways. I could envision an expert builder able to transform this kit into one of the other large English ships of the 1588 fleet with some plans and additional materials. Thought about getting a second kit for this purpose but my skills aren't at that level yet and detailed historical info is rather scarce on the other big English vessels.

[Apollo]

Hi Martin,

 

Your project is turning out superbly, very interesting to read through your thought process and direction for this build as you are progressing on each step. I'm sure I'm speaking for others who bought this kit when I say you are guiding and inspiring us on our own projects to accomplish something better than we would have otherwise. Your Revenge is looking stunning already.

 

You posted about the 5mm strip originally speced for this kit possibly being a better choice for the hull side planking. It happens that I have some 6mm mahogany wood strips, would that be better than the 4mm strip or too wide for this model? If so, I can order more for this model and use that instead of the 4mm supplied with the kit.

 

Καλές διακοπές in Crete!

Edited August 26, 2015 by Apollo

[UpstateNY]

Hi Martin,

 

She is turning out beautifully..wonderful work.  Being a paint with wood fan, l also really like the color contrasts you used on the hull. 

 

Enjoy your holiday!

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel.

[Emelbe]

Hi Apollo, Nigel

 

Many thanks for your kind words, I'm feeling quite humbled.  Apollo, with regard to the choice of wood, I would (have) personally stick to the strip provided.  The reason I say this is mainly the colour, with a coat of sealer/varnish it turns out a beautiful golden colour, looks much better in the flesh than in the photo's.  It makes a nice change from the usual walnut, and the grain patterning is consistent, I did have an experience with my Xebec where I varnished the hull and it looked like it was wearing pyjamas after.  It's not difficult planking with the narrower strips, the only real tricky, or should I say time consuming, area is between the whales above and below the gunports (set the whales first and plank in-between), it works out four strips rather than three so you'll need to lose 1mm, or less if you use the narrower planking (3.8mm as opposed to the 4mm used for deck planking).  I planked along the whales top and bottom then in-between the last strip I let in using a very sharp chisel held flat against its edge to pear off tiny amounts until they fit without any gaps. They're short lengths so it's not too difficult.  Hope that is clear, if not let me know and I'll try and post some photographs which should explain it better than me.

 

Once again guys, thanks for the comments,

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[juancar]

To Martin or Apollo (I think Martin is on holidays).

I have a problem with bulkhead 2. It need to be inserted about 5 centimetres more to be in correct, if not the bow deck doesn't fit (with just bulkhead 1,3 & 4 it fit perfectly).

Have you this problem? It's not too difficult to solve, but it's curious that just one bulkhead has this problem.

 

Regards,

Juancar

[Apollo]

To Martin or Apollo (I think Martin is on holidays).

I have a problem with bulkhead 2. It need to be inserted about 5 centimetres more to be in correct, if not the bow deck doesn't fit (with just bulkhead 1,3 & 4 it fit perfectly).

Have you this problem? It's not too difficult to solve, but it's curious that just one bulkhead has this problem.

Hi Juancar,

 

I had no issues with any of the bulkhead installations on the false keel in regards to deck fitting thus far. However, after the long delay and being a generally slow modeler, I am not at the point of the build yet where the bow deck (part 42) is glued to the hull, unfortunately. I did try fitting it between the bulkheads several times once I had the hull frame assembled to determine any potential fitting issues and did not detect any problems. Although, the bow deck does require quite a bit of bending to get it through the bulkheads to its intended position because of the pronounced tumblehome on the forecastle, it was resting on all four bow bulkheads evenly.

 

To be sure I'm understanding the extent of the problem correctly, do you mean 5cm or 5mm?

Edited August 30, 2015 by Apollo

[juancar]

Thanks Apollo,

It's 5 cm. It's a lot of space. I was just looking how it fit when I saw the problem yesterday (I still have a lot of work to do with other decks before glue this). Just using a carpenter's square is easy to see that don't make a line with the others bulkheads (I'll try to send you a private with a photo) . I think it's a problem with the insertion of the false keel, but I have some days to check it before take a decision of how to solve it.

[Emelbe]

Hi Juancar

 

Still on the net.  Not sure exactly what the problem is without seeing it, but I did need to make a few little adjustments to get the forward bulkheads to sit correctly.  The main way of checking is to take any measurements from the plans, these are pretty accurate, and work from there. Another check is the bulkheads should form a 1.5 to 2mm rabbet automatically when in their correct position.  Don't forget the forward deck curves with the sheer i.e, forward and aft. and had camber, and it is a pain to fit, would suggest you plank after fitting, bit fiddly for sanding but again you don't see much of it after the forecastle deck is in place.  

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[juancar]

Thanks Martin,

 

I have sent you a private with the photos, so I don´t mix them with your log. Is something easy to solve, but it´s curious, because it´s a very big deviation, and I was asking just to know if it´s a problem with all the kit or is just with mine.

 

Thanks again,

Juancar

Edited August 30, 2015 by juancar

[juancar]

Message and by error, sorry

Edited August 30, 2015 by juancar

[janet bode]

Hi Emlbe.

 

            I must say i admire your workmanship,i too have bought this kit as it may be my next build and i wondered what style of planking you

            used on the hull, and also what adhesive did you use on the second planking as so far i have only used contact adhesive.looking at

            grateings i thought they look a bit plasticky when painted have you any thoughts on this,i am following your log with interest please keep up

            your wonderful pics.

 

                            Best regards Janet B

[Emelbe]

Hi Janet

 

Thanks for the comments. In answer to you questions:

 

Planking was just straight planked, tapering at the bow, the stern needed no work apart from a couple of stealers below the waterline. The main thing before you second plank is to set the lower whale, the instructions say to just pin the plank but in my opinion you need something solid to work to. If you check my log out I've tried to explain how I went about it, if there's anything you not clear about just ask, I'm only too happy to help. When you lay the first plank (second planking), don't try to plank around the bow, just let it fall naturally and end it there, the rest should follow on with little bit of tapering. Keep your nerve and just continue until you're below the waterline and you should have quite a nice lay. You can plank upwards starting at the garboard and any filling in will be below the curve of the hull, well out of sight.

The glue I always use for second planking is the slower drying cyano, it just gives a little more time for positioning.

 

The gratings I scrapped as soon as I saw them, I've made my own using the Caldercraft ones, I am leaving a few off so the lower decks can be seen. Hope that will help, but as I said earlier if in doubt, just ask.

 

Regards

 

Martin

[Apollo]

looking at grateings i thought they look a bit plasticky when painted have you any thoughts on this,i am following your log with interest please keep up your wonderful pics.

Hi Janet,

 

I'll post another recommended change to the Revenge kit herein. Regarding the gratings, I used the Amati provided gratings for all the decks so far but probably won't for the upper decks. In the event I decide not to use the Amati gratings for the upper decks, I will replace them with wooden gratings made by kit most likely purchased from Chuck.  I would have gone with a total wooden replacement and nearly did, but I managed to find a workable solution that was satisfactory to my eyes and didn't cost extra.

 

If you decide to use the Amati brass gratings, turn them upside-down and paint them on the reverse side. The bottom side is flat-faced and when painted well, will appear much closer to the look of a wooden grating than the top side ever could. I used Vellejo acrylic paints for a realistic effect but you can also use Citadel paints by Games Workshop. I made several attempts to paint the top side of the gratings but could not achieve a satisfactory result because of the relief. I nearly went full wood until I tried painting the reverse side and was surprised by the improvement in both ease of painting and final appearance of the gratings. Fortunately, I have ample miniature painting experience and this helped.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Apollo

[juancar]

Hi Apollo and Jane ,

 

For the gratings, I have used first an impregnation paint in spray , after that I used Humbol Enamel paint. It looks good (at least for me), despite that the color I used for the lower deck wasn't the best choise.

 

Cheers,

Juancar

[janet bode]

Janet B

            Hi Martin. Just to go over your method of using cyno thick,do you put small dots of glue spaced out along the plank

                            or do you dab it onto the hull as you go along or spread it out,forgive me i have not tried this method but it does

                            seem a lot quicker than my method.Incedently our local Smiths Bookshop is now out of stock of black tissue i bought all six packets

                            so thanks for the tip.

 

                                       Dearest regards Janet B

[Emelbe]

Hi Janet

 

I try to spread it thinly and as evenly as possible using a cocktail stick which I sharpen to get into as much of the area as possible. The other thing is to try and make sure the glue spreads along the edge of the plank it butts up against. When you lay the plank push it into position and rub down with a cloth and you should be left with no gaps and no springing when you sand. Just for your info, I think the glue is Loctite which won't stick you fingers, can't check I'm in Crete at the moment.

 

I presume the tissue papers for the decking, I haven't tried that method but may experiment with it at some point.

 

Regards

 

Martin

[Emelbe]

Hi All

 

After a week of unseasonably hot weather in Crete (40 degrees when we left) it’s back to the workshop.  Before I went away I managed a day or so working on the masts, mainly because I didn’t want to work on the hull in case I made some mistake I couldn't rectify before the holiday, unfortunately I’m one of those who would have spent the whole week sulking about it.

 

 

It would have been nice to report I had found a new devious way of stepping the masts, but I haven’t so it was out with a nice sharp chisel and cut the square profiles by hand.  The fore-top and main-top went together easily and are ready for spraying.  There’s still quite a bit of work to do on shaping the masts and rigging them, but I’ll need to have a study session on the rigging plans first. I’ll talk more on the masts at a later date.

 

 

Back to the hull, and I decided to plank the bulwarks to hide the dibetou fillers.  The main deck bulwark I staggered the planking so I could get a good fit with the bulkheads and just fill in on one plank section, don’t know if the picture explains that properly.  

 

 

 

 

Before I applied the ‘precious’ paper patterns (love that name) I finished all the fiddly jobs like lining the gunports, and finish plank the stern, underneath the stern gallery walkway etc.  Time to see if all that messing around with setting the whales has paid off and, happily, I can report it has.  The decorative patterns went on perfectly, my only criticism is when you cut round openings it leaves the white of the paper showing, will just be a matter of using a coloured felt tip or something to colour them.

 

A word of warning to my friends who are also building this model, the lowermost pattern, No 13 you must split at the stern galley door otherwise it won't be long enough as I found out to my cost, I had to cut the door area out and try to graft it at the bow, there’s no way can you remove the paper once the glue is on.  It does actually show it in the manual but it isn’t highlighted, that’s my excuse for missing it!

 

Just waiting on some decent dry weather now so I can spray the whales before fitting, but plenty to be getting on with in the meantime, what to do next?

 

A little aside, I’ve had a windfall, (only a small one), by way of a pension I had completely forgotten about.  I’ve decided to get ‘tooled up’ and am looking at some machinery.  I’m going to invest in a small table saw, a milling machine and a lathe.  The ones I’m looking at is the Proxxon  bench saw and milling machine, and the Toolco 1022 lathe.  I know a lot you out there recommend the Byrnes Table Saw and I could be swayed, it’s just the shipping that worries me.  Any thoughts on the Proxxon stuff, and has anyone had experience with the Toolco lathes? 

 

Sorry about the lack of photos, think I need a new camera this one's not holding its charge any more.

 

Cheers

 

Martin