USS Constitution by Livingstoneman - Model Shipways

[Livingstoneman]

Did some work on the stern. Went with the 5 windows as my wife said the 6 windows are not pleasing to her eyes, and that it should be an odd number. And the 3 windows version i didnt like as much because I love french windows. So the magic number is 5. I will be putting the planking on today.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

Worked on the back of the ship. I think it went well.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[JSGerson]

Are you building the 1812 version of the Conny? You might want to read the discussion on her windows and look at the images posted there of stern for reference.

 

Jon

[Livingstoneman]

Thanks Jon for the heads up! I took a look at that discussion and found it very interesting. I was just following USEDTOSAIL on his build of the USS Constitution. because I figured he did all the research and him being a professional should know what is best. But it seems that there is some doubt about the window thing. Also At what year did they have that amount of windows etc. I did look ahead of USEDTOSAIL of his finished stern, and as you can see from his build, it has 6 windows. but what I didn't like, was all the white. The white frame and supports were just bunched together making the whole back area strip white. To me it was not very impressive as a black area with a white trim would. A white trim with black around it reminds me of our Marines in dress code. Not sure why. Anyway, so after looking over many builds and photographs and gravings etc, I have decided to go with the August 14th 1914 black & white photo. The two extra windows will be boarded up with a peep hole in the center. And I will attempt to make the window panes also the same. That slide up and down.

  So thanks again for the tip.... 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

I found another build that did have 5 windows and looked great, hmmmm decisions....

Edited August 14, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[CaptainSteve]

It's really a personal choice as to which version you choose to build, LSMan. The research shows that the stern (and a number of other details) changed many times over the years, depending on battle damage, dry-dock restorations and re-fits, as well as Commander of the day.

Edited August 15, 2016 by CaptainSteve

[usedtosail]

I am no professional and did a minimum of research. Since it was a toss up 5 or 6 I went with 5. Like Captain Steve says, its a personal choice.

[HIPEXEC]

Looking good!

[HIPEXEC]

I guess anybody who builds a USS Constitution runs into the same dilemma....how many windows to put in the stern. I went with three, but during my research I found out these ships changed configurations constantly.

[KirbysLunchBox]

What's fun is that every version is right for some point in history!

[Livingstoneman]

Today on my day off, which is Saturday, I worked on the stern and decided on the 3 windows. It took some hours but I am pleased with the new look. Once I paint it black, the imperfection on the wood, should fade away. 

Edited September 3, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

Just got this balsa stripper in. It works great!

Edited September 3, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[JSGerson]

Where are you going to use Balsa strips? I'm curious, have you tried it on hard wood like boxwood or basswood?

 

Jon

[Livingstoneman]

The Balsa strips at this point is being used for the windows on the stern. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

Got up in the night and just worked on the stern. I probably should have stopped, but i just kept going. Insomnia. 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

Huge mistake was found while putting the inboard plank sheer strip. I apparently made the spar deck gun port framing way too low! I cannot just leave this mistake as the cannons on the deck would be too high. BIG mistake...ughhh.

  So I will have to take apart all the framing and move it up until the frame is flush with the sheer strip....  

Edited November 5, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

Today I did some research on the inner rivets. I looked at Usedtosail and got the idea from him. saw a few original photos of the connie and decided on a plan. At first I wanted to just paint it like many others have done like xken but thought of the challenge. So I got some of the prep work stuff only to find I had no wire, So I am using fishing line instead. It is 30lb Visibly Green, 0.019 in dia. Drilled the holes 1/4" apart on the bottom and staggered it on the top. Its far from the original as the rivets would be smaller than a hair, but it looks good to me. The main thing I am trying to get is the bumps of the rivets.  

Edited November 19, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

Here are a few pictures I found of the inner rivets.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[JSGerson]

I'm getting close to finishing my current build, Rattlesnake so I am quite interested in watching others build their Constitution, my next build. My original plan, based on the Robert Hunt's practicum, was to use Tichy Train Group 0.02" dia rivets (No. 8017), but your idea using fishing line is a whole lot cheaper and has the same effect.

 

Having looked at photos of the ship's bulwark rivets and comparing them with your mock-up, it appears to me that if you use fishing line half as thick as the 30 lb test line, that would really look more accurate. But I don't know anything fishing line so I don't know what kind of line that would be or how easy or hard it would be to work with.

 

Good luck with your efforts

 

Jon

[Livingstoneman]

ok, I managed to find some 0.28mm or 10Lb green fishing line and tried it again and using a 0.20 drill. the results are below. But when I show my wife she says she likes the larger one as it is rounder and looks more like rivets. But again, not accurate. The smaller one is better and almost perfect I would say, but when melting, the balls don't melt always in a perfect dome. And a bit of black ends on it.

  So when comparing them both, I will go with what people will see and recognize. The accurate small one cannot be seen as well with the naked eye, and from a distance, looks like a drilled hole. Which I am trying to avoid. But with the inaccurate large one, it is obvious from a distance that there is a dome thing and it resembles a rivet.

  As you will notice from my comments, I am going by site not accuracy. Its going to be sitting above my fire place where it can be admired by visitors, not a Museum. HA!

  It is easier to paint the green on before putting the fishing line. Plus I doubt if paint will stick to the fishing line.    

Edited November 19, 2016 by Livingstoneman

[JSGerson]

You do what you feel is best for your model, after all, you are the model maker. Personally, I like the finer "rivets." It follows my model making philosophy; I want the viewers to discover more detail as they moved in closer. For example, when I added tree nails to my Rattlesnake, I did not do what many others did, increased the contrast of the nails so they would stand out to be seen. On a real ship they would almost blend into the planking. So the tree nails on my model become obvious only when the viewer is drawn in and they are greeted with more detail.

 

By the way, you mentioned "melting." I assume that the tops of the fishing line are melted to flatten them into "rivet" heads. How exactly did you do that? My guess is you heated a piece of metal and pressed it on top of the fishing line creating the "rivet."

 

Jon

[ca.shipwright]

LSM,

Since the gunports are all equally spaced, you can glue up the planks for the inner bulworks, cut them to size, make a marking/drilling jig and get the exact same rivet patterns on every piece. Then install the rivets while the panels are off the ship. Then glue the completed panel to the inner bulworks. Try one panel with each size rivet to get a true sense of the scaling involved.

 

Hope this helps

[Livingstoneman]

ok, its been too long since I have worked on the constitution. Time to get back to the impossible task! 

  Today I decided to work on the pin rails. Don't ask me why, I just felt like doing it. To do this, I had a few challenges. I noticed on the prints that the prints say there are 6 holes in the rail 4 round one and 2 square. 

But on the Constitution today has 5 holes. 3 round and 2 square.

I looked on other builds and they made 5 holes.

 

So after doing a few test, I found out that the pins simply are too large to effectively place 6 in the area required. So 5 it is.

So I made the 7 rails to fit on the second course from the top and drilled holes. I then varnished them with the only varnish in the village which was way too light, but I'm thinking it will get darker with age. 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

Well, more months have passed by without a stitch of work on my Constitution. So this month, I have been inspired to fix up my work area to make it easy to do my build. 

Today I have continued to work on my pin rails as that is what my mind wants to do. HA.

 

I got some picture frame wire about the size of #63 drill bit (0.71mm). I cut each length to 5mm. Then Super glued 2 of them in each pin rail.

I tried my dremel to drill a hole of a #63 into the side of the bulwark but found it too big,

tried my mini dremel, better but still not the best,

then tried my hand held finger drill and it did the job.

Had to be careful not to got too deep, just about 2mm.   

 The pins are about 0.87mm so a #65 bit should do it. 

Installed them but without glue for now as I might have to remove them for planking, etc.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Livingstoneman

[Livingstoneman]

Spent the weekend working on my first Carronade. I looked at the current on on the ship, the blueprints and other models. And of course, they were all different. Ha! So I decided to go with the current look. It took me a while to get the positions correct and the spacing of the wheels as the frame has to overlap that inner slant bulwark thing. I saw that the drawing said to use iron oxide color, well I actually used real red oxide.but again found out that it is darker than the current frame. The current frame is more of a brownish pink. Some molders paint them red. Was this the older version color? Or maybe they did it to make the Carronades flashier. I had to drill out the carronade to make it look real.

I had a difficult time painting the brass eyelets. The paint just rolls off it and when it drys I can just scrape it off with my finger nail. hmmmm

  Well here it is, any comments before I mass produce 19 more?  Thanks

. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by Livingstoneman

[CaptainSteve]

Your prototype carronade looks pretty good, LSMan. If you can get hold of some form of blackening agent then you will find it easier to colour the metal bits. These are chemical reagents which actually change the colour of the metal. Some commonly used ones are Liver of Sulphur and Brass Black. You will need to find one that will work on the white-metal pieces supplied in the MS kit. Casey's Brass Black works well on - you guessed it - brass, but not so well on these pieces. I'm currently looking for an agent that will work on these, myself.

[JSGerson]

That's a pretty good prototype you built, but if you want to get picky technical, both the image you show of the actual cannonade and thus your prototype, are wrong. I posted this on SawdustDave's build log:

 

Per the USS Constitution Museum’s Restoration Log, “Constitution’s Modern Armament,”:

 

Her first 20th century restoration in 1906-1907 saw fifty-five replica guns made for the ship. All of the present guns were cast for the 1927-1931 restoration with the exception of two 1812-era replica carronades on the after quarter deck. Cast in 1981, these carronades are closer to Constitution‘s 1812 spar deck armament. The gun deck guns were cast in the Charlestown Navy Yard in 1929. The pattern of these guns was based on a British siege gun that was abandoned in Boston during the American Revolution and is currently displayed near Harvard University. The decision to cast “British” guns was made by Lieutenant John A. Lord, Supervisor of the 1927-1931 restoration. He based his decision upon inaccurate research that led the Navy to mistakenly believe that Constitution was outfitted with British guns in 1812.

 

So, thel cannonade with the elevation screw (shown below) is the more accurate version. The choice is yours as the model maker…and mine too when the time comes for me to make the choice.

[Livingstoneman]

Captain Steve,

  Thanks for the advice on the painting of the metal. Unfortunately, I will not be able to get that kind of paint as I live in a village in the heart of Africa. But I will be making a trip to the States in November for a month so I might pick a few things up during that time. Or I might do some research on natural dyes. Hmmm

  Livingstoneman 

[Livingstoneman]

JSGerson,

  I feel stunted by your vast research. So to do it right, the whole cannons needs to be scraped and new correct ones bought. Well, thanks for the truth on this and I appreciate your interest. But again like I stated to Captain Steve I don't have many options here in the bush, so I will be forced to build a lie. HA. This boat, my first build, when finished will sit on the fireplace in my new house that I am building on a mountain. So not many people will see it or for that matter or will know the real truth. But for a great decoration it will be fine. I guess all model builders will have to decide how much accuracy needs to be applied and the purpose.  

  Again, thanks for your comment and hope I will learn more from you.

Livingstoneman  

[JSGerson]

I did not mean to burst your bubble. We all make compromises as we construct our builds. We are making models, not necessarily miniature duplicates of the real thing. As you have acknowledged, a model can be as simple or as complicated as we choose to make it. I provided the information to you for your knowledge, not for the observer of the model. You do with it as you see fit. I have yet to see two models of the same ship that are duplicates of each other.

 

That prototype cannonade is a little masterpiece, as you should be proud of it. Keep up the good work.

 

Jon