US Brig Niagara by mikiek - FINISHED - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First wooden ship build

[mikiek]

OK - I'll give it a spin this evening.

[mikiek]

I hoped a little research would clear things up for me. NOT.

 

I've seen tall stanchions, short stanchions, square stanchions, U shaped stanchions, stanchions that hang out over the rail, hammocks stacked vertical, hammocks stacked diagonal, folded, not folded, with netting, without netting - Enough!  Sheesh!

 

Sorry, I guess I needed to whine a little bit Nothing left to do now but pick a few of the attributes I just mentioned and go with it.

[mikiek]

This ain't getting any easier. I'm seeing why the plans for the hammocks & rail are what they are.

 

I made a stanchion with the measurements called out by the plans. Then I started to work on a hammock - 6'x3'. That scales to a little over 1" long and about 1/2" wide. I rolled that up and even put the 7 lashings on it (it's kinda cute). Then I folded it in half and put it inside the stanchion. The folded hammock is almost 1/4" taller than the stanchion. It looked pretty good.

 

I took that and set it on the hand rail of the build. Big problem. The shrouds do not leave enough room. I don't have all the shrouds rigged but there are a few and there is not near enough room under the shrouds for hammocks - at least they way I was doing them. The stanchions all by themselves clear the shrouds just by a hair.

 

The plans call for a strip of "canvas" to be laid inside the stanchions. A long edge fastens to the top of the inner stanchion post, runs down the post, across, back up the other post and then over the inner stanchion and is fastened. Completely enclosing the hammock area. NOTHING extends higher than the stanchion. Now I know why.

 

Just to muddy things up some more - there was a site member that posted a bunch of Niagara pix here. Have a look at how the the whole assembly is done there - some good pix about half way down the set of pix. Not sure if that's just a modern rendition or not. What that looks like is a canvas that goes down one stanchion post, across and up the other post and stops there. Then there's another canvas laid down on top of the stanchions and fastened (maybe snapped in this case) on the sides.

 

Sounds like I'm whining again so I'll stop my rant.  Would appreciate any ideas. The obvious one is to do like the plans but I don't think it would be very realistic. From what I can tell, the pic on the front of the kit box didn't follow the plans, but it's too small to see what they did. No big surprise there.

 

 

I think I need a new build....Arrow? Trajta? Maybe Cazador?

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by mikiek

[jbshan]

If you want a new build without hammock rails, perhaps an Olds 88 or one of those historic aircraft from Model Expo?

If you like the look of the prototype pics, and it works, why not go with that?

[mikiek]

I never put the prototype on the handrail. It wouldn't fit either. At the channels, as best I can measure, from the outer edge of the handrail straight up to where the shrouds pass over the edge is less than 1/4". It just don't fit.

 

One more reason to turn it into an admiralty build

[mikiek]

I suppose the obvious solution is to make it small enough so it does fit. No one except my scale figurines will know if my 6' hammock is really 4'

[mikiek]

Tonight I came to the conclusion that I am making this hammock thing too complicated. I know what I want to do with the hammock setup and I know that would come in contact with the shrouds. Ya know what?  WHO CARES? On a real ship it would be 20 lashes for something like that, but hey, I'm the captain of this rig and the shrouds will never wear out a hammock canvas on a boat that doesn't go anywhere.

 

So there!

[mikiek]

While working on several other builds and sailing a few of them I have been thinking about hammocks. There are several Niagara logs showing nice setups but they just aren't what I'm looking for. In fact if you think about them they may not even make sense. First off, there is no right or wrong because no one knows how they were done on the Great Lakes fleet. Given the short nature of the missions and the fact that there were only 2 decks with the below deck being used for all sorts of storage - maybe they didn't even use hammocks.

 

Assuming they did and they got as dirty and smelly as some describe, I don't think they would be all covered up in a little cocoon unless the weather was bad or waters rough. I think they would leave them uncovered and in the sun whenever possible.

 

I know all that is debatable but it is also plausible particularly in the arena they sailed and fought. I would likely think differently for an ocean going ship.

 

I started rolling hammocks tonight. I'm going to do what I think would be the coolest look. 150 hammocks with real netting in the stanchions.

 

Man, I have really gotten anal about this! Almost as bad as the frapping with the guns. Time to chill and keep rolling hammocks

[mikiek]

 

 

 

'nuff said 

 

[Don Quixote]

Dunno what page, but there aren't that many, but if you check my Niagara log, you'll see the current ships captain went out and measured the stantions for me so the dimensions given there are about as accurate as you're going to get:)

[mikiek]

Hey Brian. The problem is (at least with the model) that where the shrouds run over the handrail there's only about 1/4" between the rail and the shroud and Darrell says there's even less on the foremast. So even these little guys are pushing it. The stanchions can't be any taller than that.

[jbshan]

(Back a posting or two):

The crew may indeed have slept on some sort of pallet on top of the stores in the hold, or on deck in good weather and not used hammocks.  We just don't know.  There was a 'saloon' so apparently some portion of the hold was set up for accommodations.  The hammock rails had of course the function of protection from musket fire. The gundalows at Valcour Bay (Philadelphia, for one) in the previous conflict used apparently bundles of sticks and saplings in the same place and for that same function.  Who knows?

[Don Quixote]

Well, anytime you have a question, email c-timclaug@pa.gov. He's the current Niagara's Captain and is VERY helpful.

[mikiek]

I'm with ya Joel - there is an answer but no one knows it. I like the look of the individual hammocks uncovered on the rail. So that's where I'm going. Only 129 more to make.

 

Brian - it might be worth seeing what the captain knows regarding hammocks on the original boat.

[Don Quixote]

Nothing to lose. He was excited when I contacted him. His name is Tim.

[mikiek]

A few hammock prototypes, mostly just differences in the color of things. Would appreciate comments on the netting. OK? Too thin?

 

I'm leaning towards this

 

 

The hammocks will be more in line for the final product. I'll be aligning them and gluing them in place.

[Don Quixote]

I definitely like the 2nd one better.

[mikiek]

Bet you thought this thread was dead didn't you? There's been a lot of deliberation on this build. I have a few more "deck items" to complete and then rigging. I've been thinking hammocks for way too long. But I believe it was a worthwhile endeavor. I'm still working towards something like the last prototype. No covers, just stanchions with rails, webbing, stuffed full of hammocks. I'm going off the beaten path for this but it's the look I want. That's about 15" of structure on each hand rail. Thinking ahead a bit, I think all the hammock stuff must be done before rigging. There's just too much in the way afterwards and it would complicate a relatively easy job. So now is the time!

 

I made a few stanchions over a month ago and completely forgot how I made them, so I'm adding some pix here so I'll remember. If they help someone else, even better.

 

I started with some 0.8 brass rod. Cut pieces just slightly over 1" long.

 

 

Then with a 5/8" punch I flattened each end and some of the center.

 

 

I have a small long nose pliers with the widest part of the nose being exactly the width I wanted the stanchions to be. This helped a lot with consistency. So I grab the brass right in the center with the pliers and bend each side. While still in the pliers I hammered the bend to get a reasonbly sharp 90 degree angle.

 

 

Then grab the very tip and put a 90 degree bend to the outside. This creates a lip for the wood rail that will be glued to the stanchion. Clip off any excess, you hardly need anything extending outwards.

 

 

One down 19 to go. I'm figuring a stanchion every 1 1/2" along the hand rail. 15" total length with a small break at the ladder. I completed all 20 last night. This morning I spent about an hour comparing them all. I lined them all up next to each other to compare width and especially height. These things MUST be very consistent. When the rail is glued to them it will become very obvious as the rail would snake up or down at each glue point if the height is off.

 

 

The webbing. The material is called tulle. Available in fabric stores and online. I cut a strip 1 1/4" wide. This stuff is very thin. The white tulle is darn near impossible to see on a white surface. Use a piece of dark construction paper underneath.

 

 

The sticks here will be the rail that is glued to the stanchion. They are glued (I used Elmer's) to the tulle. The sticks are thin enough that they will bend as the hand rail curves at the bow.

 

I opted not to solder a small post to the center of the stanchions. While it might give some additional strength to the installation it seems like a lot of extra effort to me. In the case of Niagara, the stanchions need to sit flat on the rail, not elevated at all as there is NO extra clearance between the stanchions and the shrouds. Learning what I have about epoxy from my tug boat build, I believe a spot of that will provide enough strength when mounting the stanchions. The only negative side is I better get it right the first time, because tearing off an epoxied stanchion would likely damage the rail. So, slow & steady with several walk throughs before the real thing.

 

 

[mikiek]

I have had (and still have) some serious reservations about the rigging for this build. Not so much about the complexity involved but more about the time needed to do it. I've been working this build since October 2015 and there have been some major life changes along the way. My needs from this hobby have changed because of that, at least temporarily. I want to accomplish tasks quickly, with something to show for it. A little instant gratification. Spending the next 6 months on rigging is just not an appealing thought right now.

 

That said, I did pick up the Lauck Street practicum DVD set and the rigging lessons in there seemed to have sparked my interest a little. On the other hand, I like the way Niagara looks now, with no rigging or masts.

 

So where (or maybe how) Niagara ends up is still a big unknown right now. She will always be there, so there is no rush.

[mikiek]

Well I am committed now. Hammock stanchions are glued on the port hand rail. I placed them with a dot of CA just to get them on but then went back and epoxied them. I'm suspecting they will get a fair amount of abuse and I don't want to have to try and reglue them later.

 

After the epoxy dries I will add one of those webbing with sticks contraptions I showed a few posts back.

 

 

 

 

[donrobinson]

Man you have been busy!! Looks good

[mikiek]

Hi Don - glad you came by. The big concern is how badly all this will interfere with the shrouds as the hammock installation passes under them   Whether they do or whether they don't, this is the path I'm going down. Now back out to the garage to tie up more hammocks.

[Tigersteve]

Good to see you back to this one!

Steve

[mikiek]

Right Steve - she's been collecting too much dust and dead bugs in the garage 

[mikiek]

My first attempt at the hammock stowage. The stanchions were glued to the hand rail yesterday. Today it was time to add the webbing and top rail. Here's that - I explained it in a previous post.

 

 

So when I made the stanchions (another previous post) I put a slight "lip" at the top of the uprights. You can see it in the first pic. Under that lip is where the top rail is glued, making sure that the side of the rail that has the webbing glued to it faces the inside of the stanchion.

 

 

 

Then I glued the other rail.

 

 

 

Push the webbing down in between the uprights, add hammocks and there it is.

 

 

 

I'll stretch a line across the uprights below the top rail - like I did in the prototype (still another previous post). You better duck now - looks like that carronade has a bead on you

 

 

[jbshan]

If the hammocks stick up too far and get in the way, you could lay them on a slant.

[Paul Jarman]

Brilliant job. Love the rigged cannons, they look so good.

[mikiek]

Good idea Joel. I imagine I will need to do something. That might also cut down on the number of hammocks I have to make

 

Paul - I appreciate that. The guns were quite an adventure.

[jbshan]

5 hours ago, mikiek said:

Good idea Joel. ...That might also cut down on the number of hammocks I have to make

Always trying to save work for somebody else, that's me.

[Paul Jarman]

I know what you mean. When I built the Victory I had 30 guns fully rigged. The only difference was I did mine with the overspill as coils. Sadly I never finished it due to unforeseen circumstances.