RATTLESNAKE 1780 by RiverRat - Mamoli - 1:64 - Massachusetts privateer

[RiverRat]

Hi Brian -- I'd formally like to second your resolution to take on some carving.  Go for it!  The higher resolution photo shows the nice even lines of your planking, which in my book (poetic or otherwise) signals Success.

And I also second your opinion of the Mamoli plans that are most often confusing.  You might consider investing in the beautifully drafted plans by Harold Hahn, which show lots of details (including the carving) with clarity.

As for the filler blocks, I'm not quite sure I get your concern -- do you mean that the shape of your bow looks off?  I think it looks about right.

Keep at it -- I'll be looking forward to your progress as one Ratt builder to another!

Martin

 

Hi Martin, thanks for the encouragement. My main goal of the planking was to try to keep it symmetrical side-to-side. Did OK there. Some of the ends aren't too neat, but this being the first layer, (filler!), I didn't worry much about them. Will certainly be more meticulous with the second.

 

Filler blocks. No, this was just the usual fillers (balsa) most modellers seem to use on POBs at the bow and stern where the bending is more severe; more glue area and definition of the shape. In my naivete long ago, I had thought I could do it with correct bending, and it certainly could be done, but I chose to do the usual filling. Nuttin' special. As it was, some of the earlier planks at the bow were a little clinkered from insufficient bending, but I got better as I continued. Learned a bunch from this first layer, as I had hoped to do, to apply to the second.

 

Brian

[RiverRat]

Do you have the Mamoli Rattesnake kit, or have built it? I have a question about some of the wood. Please see my post at the Wood Discussion forum:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/2095-is-this-boxwood/

 

Brian

[CAd My Fingers]

She's lookin' good, Brian--nice build!

[mtaylor]

Nice fix on the "s" curve at the stern, Brian. She's looking good.

[RiverRat]

Some of the kit wood, supposedly boxwood, for the planking/trim above the wales is pretty much garbage for that task (see my previous post/link), so I'm ordering some strips to replace it. Will have to wait for the delivery to do the second planking.

 

Meanwhile, I'll probably complete planking the decks. The instructions have that done after the hull planking, perhaps to have them more stiff while removing the ply bulkhead supports at the bulwarks, but I'm sure it's safe to carry on. Also need to design and build the bulkhead wall under the fore of the quarterdeck (to replace the metal part provided) and and the same for the lights/windows at the stern. 

 

Brian

[JPett]

Ahoy Brian

 

Sorry to hear about the wood.

 

Looking forward to seeing what you do with the poop bulkhead

[RiverRat]

Should get some new wood in a day or two for above-the-wales planking. Here's an interim update.

 

I can plank the counter with what I have, but wanted to make up the rudder to make sure of clearance. It's walnut built on a mahogany-ply pre-shaped base.

 

 

Acchh! It has a light layer in the middle of the ply. I thought of staining at first, but decided to cover it with some 0.5mm walnut.

 

 

Better, but not as seamless as I'd hoped. Will likely be painted whitish below the waterline anyway, unless my lower-hull planking miraculously comes out nearly flawless.

 

Planked the counter, but first dabbed some dark stain on the exposed light wood and ply inside the rudder opening (port?). Patched with filler the delaminated spots on the brittle mahogany-ply false transom.

 

 

To future Mami RS builders and maybe metal gunport users....

 

Looking back, I wish I had bent the upper and lower tabs on the metal ports inward a bit, to fit better the inward curve of the bulwark. A couple protude inward a little and I may have to do a little fussin' and finaglin' to get the inner planking to fit well. Something I DID do, now wishing I hadn't, was to taper the vertical 1.5x5 pieces alongside the ports, to fit the bulwark curve. Should have used bent pieces to fit, leaving them full thickness.

 

 

Cheers,

Brian

 

 

 

 

[Martin W]

Hi Brian -- I like that rudder, it should look good when you get it on the stern.  I found that my rudder gave me problems in the way and place it lined up on the quarter deck and passing through the captain's cabin.  Small miscalculations (or inept alignment of parts) kept everything from lining up the way it was supposed to, and the way the plans showed it.

 

I'll be interested to see how the planking on the bulwark works out, if it REALLY matters that you didn't bend the 1.5x5 pieces, since I would think that the metal ports already make for a straight surface for the planking to lie on. Eh?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Anja]

Hello Brian,

 

Happy birthday!

 

 

Have a great day.

 

Anja

[demonborger]

Does the inside have horizonal walnut planks placed? If so you can finish the lime wood and put some wood filler then sand it all down flat. It will make it a bit thicker (but only a mm or so). Then you can plank the inside walls.

[Ferit]

Salute Brian and...

[Martin W]

May your birthday bring you a keen planker's eye and a steady carver's hand, mate!

 

Martin

[RiverRat]

Thank you all for the lovely birthday wishes! I was going to give myself a birthday present by getting to "such-and-such" point in my build, and post an update, but didn't quite get there.

 

But, I'll post what I have when I get back into port later today.

 

In the meantime, I left a cask of rum and some vittles in the captains cabin for the party guests. Until I return........

 

[yvesvidal]

Cabin1.jpg

Cabin3.jpg

 

This is gorgeous. Excellent idea and great details. Another modeller on this forum even designed a checker board like planking for the cabin.

 

Yves

Edited May 30, 2013 by yvesvidal

[RiverRat]

Yves. Thanks! I've been finding, though, that most of the detail is lost with the deck above and the transom installed. Without something like LED lighting inside, which I'm not doing, one only gets a hint of the contents in the cabin. That's Ok with me; I just didn't want to have bare kit bulkheads visible in case one actually could get a good view inside through the stern and quarter lights (windows).

 

demonborger. Yes, the inner wall of the bulwarks get horizontal planks. It's probably not a difficult fix; I was just noting my lack of experience and foresight at the time I built that section. More lack of foresight to come, I'm sure!

 

UPDATE

 

Back-tracking a bit --- Before I had got much of the first planking on, I decided to add some stops to the side of the mast slots in the ply keel to limit side play of the base of the masts. I had this probably unfounded worry that a mast might slip sideways out of the slot and drop down into the hull. These were just some glued bits of wood or ply, left and right of the slot, that would allow some side-to-side play but not enough for the mast to leave the keel. Sorry, no photo.

 

Another Mamoli RS builder, I think, mentioned cutting down the size of the obtrusive ply bulkheads supporting the aft of the forecastle. Good idea! I did likewise, at least half cut away, and put some dark stain on them. They will be hidden even more when the bulwarks are planked. No current photo here, but I'll likely show it later.

 

TRANSOM LIGHTS

 

(Sometimes I worry about my properly calling the ship's windows "lights", as there might be some newbies reading these, and think I'm talking about lanterns or something!  )

 

While early on I planned on making see-through windows instead of using the kit's metal part, I had no definite PLANS in mind until I got to the point of making them. Insetting them, or flush with the planking might look better, but I decided on surface mounting low profile frames.

 

First, before planking the transom, I had to refill a part of the big openings I had left in the mahogany false transom. Needed the support between the lights. Transom was then planked with 1x3mm cherry.

 

 

I had ordered some 1mm x 1mm boxwood strips along with the other woods replacing some of the kit wood. I used a small plane to thin some of this down to about 0.6mm to be used as the outside of the frames. For the muntins, the strips separating the panes, I similarly made some 0.6 x 0.6.

 

 

Longish strips of these were pre-painted (white acrylic) on three sides. The bottom was kept free of paint by sticking it to painters tape, the tape peeled away carefully right after the coat.

 

From a tracing of the transom shape, I laid out the lights to arrange them similarly to that in an Admiralty drawing:

 

 

I'm using clear .002" mylar for the glass. This may be similar to the clear plastic sheet protectors you can get where office supplies are sold. The adhesive I'm using for the wood-to-plastic is Super Z RC-56, a canopy glue used most often for RC planes. Looks like white glue (it's not), but dries clear and is flexible. The bottle says it's an excellent adhesive for vinyls, plastics, fabric, wood and glass. I did a test on some small pieces and it bonded well. I could peel it apart, but I'm confident of it for a static, unloaded part.

 

This bottle, though never opened, was a few years old and the adhesive was a bit viscous/thick and hard to spread thinly. I managed OK, but after using it, I read some reviews and learned that it was actually thinner than white glue! So! Fresh stuff for next time.

 

I taped the clear plastic over the paper layout and built the frames on the plastic, scuffing the bondlines a bit with a narrow diamond file for a little more adhesive bite.

 

 

Each light is 9 pieces. Top and bottom horizontals, two sides, these all 1mm x 0.6mm; two full width muntins, and 3 small vertical pieces in the center, these 0.6 x 0.6. Done in that order. Adhesive was goobered on the bondline and the cut-to-length piece set in place. After curing overnight, the lights were trimmed aroung their periphery, leaving the painted wood light on top of a piece of clear plastic.  Cut ends and some joints were touched up with acrylic.

 

 

The cut-outs in the transom are (hoped) to be slightly smaller than each frame, the frame (the plastic underneath) bonded over the opening just under the frame outline (did I explain that OK?) with RC56.

 

The cut-outs aren't done yet, but just for grins, here are the lights temporarily tacked to approximate position. One of the two pieces of horizontal trim has been applied. On the kit's metal piece, the "Rattlesnake" name fits between the two.

 

 

Sheesh! Enough already! Hope I didn't bore you much.

 

Regards,

 

Brian

 

 

 

 

 

[Martin W]

Hey Brian (that rum was very tasty, thanks Cap'n) -- I like your lights, AND I like your use of the mylar.  I struggle with 1/16" sq boxwood, cutting little tiny lap joints and came up with wood frames, but ones that don't look half, even a quarter as good as yours.  And, because mine took multiple weeks to do, when they didn't quite work perfectly, I just couldn't bring myself to start over.

 

When I made the doors for the bulkheads, though, I used the clear plastic from an egg carton for the glass.  Now that looks ok, except that you can't see them anyway.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

[RiverRat]

Another jump backwards to re-do the rudder. I had mentioned before that some of the non-square view drawings in the plans were sometimes ambiguous or poorly done. The drawing of the rudder assembly gave me the impression that all the cut-out areas for the gudgeons and pintles were parallel with the waterline. When I made it this way, it just struck me as odd looking. My earlier pictures might show a hint of it. After looking at some of the scratch builders' rudders, I've removed the offenders and have more appropriate shapes; top of the "cutout" is square with the hingeline and the bottom is angled for relief to ship/unship the rudder.

 

 

The general side-view drawing of the model (which I failed to consult at the time) does show all the cuts square with the hingeline, but doesn't indicate the sloping lower cut.

 

Here, I'm in the process of opening up the transom for the lights. A piece of clear plastic with the frame limits drawn, and the plastic inside that area removed to allow me to cut and sand with the drawing in place. I drilled an outline of holes with a pin vise while watching the coverage of the violent storms coming through the area (lots of high winds and rain but thankfully no tornado here) and used an X-acto knife to oust the middle.

 

 

I had gotten hold of some of that Tamiya model masking tape in 6mm. Great stuff! I used it to mask along the glue lines for the lower transom trim pieces (1mm boxwood) to make glue clean-up easier. And it flexes enough that masking shallow curves, like these two pieces, is easy. Here are the lights, not glued in place, with a paper printout of Hahns carving for my amusement. I'll be designing my own, but would add it much later.

 

 

I may get a fresh batch of that RC56 adhesive to see if it's thinner than my old stuff and may remake the lights if so. While you can't see it without really close examination, there are some heavy areas of squeezeout, though clear, and I wasn't prepared to clean up at the time of assembly. Kind of tough to scrape within a 3x3mm space without having something ready to do it. Another failure to think ahead!

 

I've made some 1.5 x 3 mm "C" moldings for the first strake of the second planking using a razor-blade scraper as found in the "Relief Mouldings" topic:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/516-relief-mouldings/?hl=moulding#entry6017

 

Should be titled just "Mouldings" I think.........

 

 

Not especially clear with my older digital camera. I need to invest in a better one (that I can control - I used to be whiz with my Nikon SLR and collection of lenses.....)

 

Brian

[Martin W]

Hi Brian -- you've gotten quite a bit done there!  I'm liking those windows more and more, especially considering how easy you make the process look.  That's a small touch, really, but one where mistakes (of which I made several BIG ones) can detract.  I think the biggest problem I had, and couldn't figure out why it was a problem, was cutting out the openings of the lights along the slightly arched lined along the tops.  Your strategy of using the clear plastic with the lines drawn is one that I hope I'll remember the next time, 'cause it definitely got the job done, and done very well.

 

A missed tornado is always a relief.  I spent Friday evening huddled in my safe room (which does triple duty as my boatyard and beer locker).  I heard reports of a twister coming right towards us, and waited for the sirens, but they never blew, so I don't know how close it got, but at least we're still here.  My wife is away for several days, and parked her car at the OKC airport, and now we're trying to find out if it still exists.  Woohoo!  Who sez life on the prairie ain't excitin?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[RiverRat]

Hi Martin,

 

Glad you missed the tornados. A safe room! Is this specially built or just the best you have on hand?

 

Cutting little pieces, trying to get the lengths and angles right (or close enough, and I discounted miter joints immediately!), and handling them with fine forceps wasn't exactly easy! ...which is why I put the adhesive on the plastic. If I re-do these, I might try to hold them with tape and apply the adhesive to the wood instead so there wouldn't be as much excess. The tiny pieces are guaranteed to fly out to parts unknown if I handled them with forceps

 

I've started a bit of the second planking above the wales; may have an upcoming update after a few strakes on.

 

Brian

[Martin W]

That sounds good, Brian, I'll be looking forward to the update.  And I meant to mention earlier that I recall doing the exact same thing with the rudder that you did -- when I set it up against the stern post, I thought, hmmm, why doesn't that look as good as I thought it would?

 

Safe rooms are fairly standard around here.  Mine is reinforced concrete on all 4 walls with a concrete ceiling.  And as I mentioned, the most important feature is the fridge.

 

Oh, and I'm gettting ready to head off for a few weeks, but I thought I'd take my notes, camera, and rigging plans & books, and try to update my on build log, so you might keep a look out.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[RiverRat]

I've completed some of the upper planking. I was dis-satisfied with some of the kit's wood for this section and last month ordered some different woods from HobbyMill to try. (Will try Lumberyard next time for comparison)

 

Here's the kit's planking scheme:

 

 

33, 34, 35, and 37 are called out as boxwood (what the kit provides is actually some coarse, splintery something else ---to be replaced); and 36 is walnut (quarterdeck bulwark). 38 and 39 are walnut.

 

I'm changing the "color" scheme above the wales, using cherry for all the regular planks, and walnut for the "decorative" strakes (33 and 35).

 

I first applied a 1x3 cherry plank, top flush with the forecastle deck. The walnut 1.5x3 "C" strake is next. The instructions specify this at certain distances above the 1st, 5th and 10th gunports. I didn't adhere strictly to this, as I wanted the full-width plank above it at the forecastle (for appearance), but it was close enough. This "C" molding seems to be only hinted at in the Admiralty drawing as far as I can tell, and may be the supposition of the kit designer, though I've seen a similar molding on scratch builds. I don't see it on pictures of the Model Shipways kit. The waist's caprail will sit atop this. The line I took for the "C" molding leaves a bit of the first planking exposed above it at the waist, which will be sanded to match the top of the "C". The instructions later have "Sand carefully the whole planking and cut it following the profile pictured on the table A." I assume this refers to this sanding the extra exposed 1st planking here at the waist and on the quarterdeck bulwark. At the stem where the bowsprit enters, I used solid 1.5x3 walnut pieces, rather than have the molded part butting up to the bowsprit.

 

 

Aft, above the "C", are two 1x3mm cherry strakes, a 1x2 walnut strip set on edge, then four 0.5x3 cherry strakes. I bevelled the base of the 1x2 walnut and the top of the 1x3 cherry below it so the 1x2 would sit more horizontally, as it will line up (hopefully) with the short cap rail just fore of the quarterdeck.

 

 

The kit provides some metal narrower-than-the-rail moldings for the end of this short rail. I'll replace this with self carved wood pieces. I will also have this kind of molding aft of the forecastle, seen on drawings and scratch builds, but not included in this kit.

 

 

Some of the 0.5x3 cherry strips were "curly" (cross-grain figuring). I decided to use a little artistic license and use them on the quarterdeck bulwark. It may go against "scale" appearance, but I jus' got's a thang for curly woods! Not sure if the photo shows it well; might be quite striking with a finish applied.

 

 

Next: 5 strakes at the gunport area, then the wales.

 

Question 1: The gunports are metal. I assumed I will be having some 2-part epoxy on hand for the wood-to-metal bond spots in planking these strips. Is this usual or am I over-engineering here?

 

Question 2:  The wales are three 2x2 mm walnut strips glued together. Glue together and bend as a unit? (Would soaking these loosen the glue too much?) Apply each strake seperately? (Possible nightmare tightly fitting the compound curves and angles).

 

Thanks!

 

Brian

Edited June 8, 2013 by RiverRat

[mtaylor]

Uh-oh, To paraphrase with apologies to Rod Serling:  "You're traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's the signpost up ahead - your next stop, the DarkSide!"   

 

You've gone beyond kit on this Brian. Very impressive and well done. 

[Ferit]

Hello Brian,

The planking is looking very well...

I don't understand the first question because of my weakness of English language. If I understood you correctly, it's not obligatory to use 2-part epoxy. I can say to use CA is enough to glue wood to metal strongly because there is a little space of metal to be glued.

For the second question I can suggest to apply each strake separately and to begin with the uppermost strip. Then leaning closely against the first strip to plank the second strip... And leaning closely against the second strip to plank the third. As you bend the strips in a convex manner; being leaned against the previous strip, they will fastened to each other closely and follow easily the same curve...

Edited June 8, 2013 by ashiponthehorizon

[RiverRat]

Hi Ferit,

 

Thanks for the suggestions. It's just that I tend to avoid CA unless I need an immediate bond, and if it "strays" it may leave a spot that won't take a finish. But since these wood-to-metal areas are so small, sure, medium CA might be easiest.

 

Mark,

 

NOOOOO! Not the "Dark Side"!   Come now, this is just tweaking the kit here and there, just a tiny bit of scratchy bashy stuff.

 

Brian

[Martin W]

Hey Brian -- Like Ferrit, I can't respond to question 1, because I didn't use the metal ports.  I would imagine, though, that you could glue the planks over the metal, if you're using something that will bond wood & metal both (it's worth a try).

 

As for question 2, again, I'm with Ferrit!!!

 

As an additional point though, I'd suggest that when you get to the decorative rounded parts of that short rail you start with a piece of whatever stock you're using that's long enough to cover the short rail and thick enough to handle the curved decoration.  I did NOT do that, and after seeing photos of other models wish I had.  There's that big seam between the decoration and the rail itself, and it just won't go away.  I had a hard enough time getting the decoration to fit the height and the width that I could have more easily (I imagine) carved the decoration into the end of a longer piece that I could fit in as a single unit.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[RiverRat]

@Martin --- I've started planking this area and have decided to just use the med CA at the metal. Just need to make sure the planks are placed exactly in quick time. I had thought now and then of the seam of the rail and decoration and if I could make it look seamless with what model walnut I have, none of which is quite big enough. I DO have a piece of a walnut board from a previous life. If the color is not much different, I might try your suggestion and do something with that.

 

@janos --- Yes, I had to file the metal port faces flush with the first planking. And just before planking this area, I checked all of their interior dimensions and found they were a fraction of a millimeter small. I started filing one. It made such a messy pile of soft dust I feared it might get smeared into the deck grain (though I had it covered some). I decided to live with them as they were. [ To others -- check their dimensions and file these before installation!]

 

OK OK. Wales pieces one at a time.....

 

Brian

[src]

Brian,

Been following along quietly here for a while. Coming along nicely, I like your moldings, I know what you mean about a camera YOU can control. When I first started my log I was using my little nikon point and shoot cause I didnt want to mess with getting the big guns out. Gave it up quick for the 5d and a tripod.

The rattlesnake is the ship I would like to make my 2nd build, if you had to do it all over again would you choose this kit or the other offering - Model Shipway(?) Just curious.

sam 

[RiverRat]

Brian,

Been following along quietly here for a while. Coming along nicely, I like your moldings, I know what you mean about a camera YOU can control. When I first started my log I was using my little nikon point and shoot cause I didnt want to mess with getting the big guns out. Gave it up quick for the 5d and a tripod.

The rattlesnake is the ship I would like to make my 2nd build, if you had to do it all over again would you choose this kit or the other offering - Model Shipway(?) Just curious.

sam 

 

Hi Sam,

 

This is my first wood model ship. The Mamoli kit isn't for beginners, but I felt I had the skills to get through it. I've done OK so far, especially with the knowledge sharing here at MSW and am comfortable working with it in spite of the kit's shortcomings. (Got a good deal on it on eBay. Unopened, good price, don't know how old.)

 

The Mamoli seems to be meant to be a display model, and not necessarily an accurate representation of the Rattlesnake. The designer of the MS version worked from Admiralty drawings; I don't know how the Mamoli designer's drawings came about. Certainly close enough though, as far as its lines, unless you're a stickler for maximum fidelity.

 

I've only seen incomplete build logs of the MS, and some finished pictures on the 'net, and I can't speak for the quality of the MS kit or ease of building. The MS seems to have a pretty good instruction booklet that has a lot of detail and tips. Mamoli's instructions are pretty basic, assuming a more experienced modeller, and the translation from Italian to English is sometimes awkward  and unclear.

 

Mam has a ply keel/stem/sternpost that are "sheathed" with strips after hull planking. Doesn't address covering the ply edge at the stem (all those curves). Not sure how this will turn out in the end.

MS has seperate solid wood pieces for these, uses a bearding line and rabbet. goodgoodgood

 

Mam has metal gunports. Not bad, but taking the time to replace with wood might have been worthwhile, though time consuming and fiddley. I had considered doing it early on and decided not to. Had I known how long these models can take to build, the extra time and fiddlin' seems trivial now.

MS does wooden ports AND the sweep ports, which Mam didn't model in the kit.

 

Mam is double-planked. GOOD for me, as I used it for practice, not having done planking before.

MS is single-planked it seems. (As is your Enterprise? Looks like your doing an excellent job with that!)

 

Most of the pieces fit reasonably well, though still had to do plenty of fitting and fairing. There's a lot of mahogany ply I'll do away with, as it's edges show a light layer in the middle. Some of the wood was poor quality and I've replaced some (not necessarlly the same species).

 

I guess MS has similar metal as Mam (transom, figurehead, headrails, bulkhead?). Maybe not much difference there, though I'll replace all of these with wood.

 

Anyway, I'd probably suggest doing the MS version!, though for myself, I'd not feel comfortable doing single planking on bulkheads only.

 

Enough for now! Any more questions, feel free.

 

Brian

[Martin W]

Hi Brian -- It's good to see you're still at it.  I like the comparison you draw 'tween Mam & MS.  Having now bought the MS plans, I wish, oh wish I'd gotten them much much earlier, since they include a commentary ON the plans about which part does what and why and where it leads. 

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[RiverRat]

thats a nice crisp build. Excellent work.

 

Thanks Brian! Some of the crispiness might disappear if you look close though!

 

I'm about to plank my last strake of the wales and will post an update after that's done. Likely tomorrow (or is that today down under?....)

 

(BTW, no offence, but your avatar kinda creeps me out!    I'm old enough to have seen that original episode)

 

Martin,

I understand, but I have no real regrets. I've enjoyed the challenge (well, most of the time), and it's been a satisfying and educational experience. Many CEUs accumulated!

 

Regards,

Brian