USS Constitution by MEPering - Model Shipways - 1:76.8 (5/32"=1'0") - First build

[CaptainSteve]

They DO look good, Matt. And despite your warnings of loss of sanity, I will probably adopt your method also.

[MEPering]

CaptainSteve, this is going to take a long time once I get to it.  At least a month instead of 1 week as I had predicted.  But I am not in a race, and this is an important detail to me.  I am going to try and complete it, however it is a lot of work, and I am leary of whether it is going to be worth it.  Looking at some of the beautiful models that are here, it is obvious that this is not a necessary detail.  David Lester's model doesn't have this detail, and it is still beautiful. 

 

Modeling is a fun thing... Some of us see details that we find important, and other are looking at other things that they find much more important.  When I model something, I want it as close to the original as I can possibly get, but that doesn't mean every tiny detail.  My bolts/rivets are not spaced like they are on the real ship, but they give the impression of what they are.  That is what modeling is.  I know my bolts/rivets are to tall to be true, but if I made them much closer, nobody would see them other than me. 

 

This is a balance we all have to walk between what is real and what is the model.  It is true that we have little choice how we must make these adjustments, and it is important how we think through these things.  When I made those test pieces, I knew they were too long, and they will be maybe a 64th shorter in the final. 

 

Matt

[usedtosail]

Nice setup and jig you have there Matt. The results really do look very realistic. This is one of those details that is worth taking the time to do because you just don't see it on other models. Is that the Dremel drills stand you are using? And is that a precision drilling chuck like you would see on a mill? Thanks.

[JSGerson]

The Conny is my next build as soon as I finish my Rattlesnake (whenever that may be; it's been over 6 years in the making) and I have always intended to "rivet/bolt" my attempt. Per the Hunt practicum (I believe) plastic model railroad rivets were to be used. I always felt they were a bit too large for the scale. I like your method so much better. I look forward to your future postings.

 

Jon

[MEPering]

Thanks Tom and yes... Dremel calls it a "workstation", but I call it a drill press.  It is Dremel item number 220-01.  It is a handy tool.  I have used it to drill railroad tie for hand-laid track and wire holes in etched circuit board.  The Dremel tool I have mounted in it is just standard, and that includes the chuck.  The tiny drill may have made it look like a precision, but it is just off-the-shelf.  The drill bit itself is .0145", one of a cheap set I picked up at Harbor Freight Tools years ago.  Picture below.

 

Thanks Jon.  I have used rivets from Tichy Train Group in the past, and they are fine rivets, but in some cases, I have used N scale rivets on HO models just because they were more to scale for that application.  I have also heard good things about the rivet decals that are out, and I can see why they are much more convenient and much, much faster.  But the downside is you are stuck with the spacing that the company puts out.  The Tichy rivets are individual, and don't suffer this problem, but they are also expensive.  With possibly thousands of rivet/bolts on the Constitution, this seemed like a more reasonable solution.

 

I considered using the glue-drop method, but this has never worked well for me, since I have a problem with controlling the size of the drop applied.  Some always end up looking too big or too small to me.  But I know of guys that have pretty decent success with it.  I am afraid though that I am going to run out of brass wire.  I only have 8 feet of it, and even though each rivet/bolt is only .060" long, I don't think I have enough, so I had better order some.

 

These little drills actually work quite well, but are easily broken, as you can see.  But I have never broken one using it in the drill press... Only when trying to use it freehand or in a pin vise.

 

Matt

 

 

[xken]

Matt, here is a source for tiny rivets of excellent quality that would be best for your efforts. I have used these on scratch builds and are great to work with but very tiny on the small sizes. Remember ancient proverb ..." You get what you pay for!"

 

 

http://www.scalehardware.com/miniature-rivets-c-10

 

Here is another source that may be more cost effective and shorter, only 1/8" long.

 

 http://cir-kitconcepts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=162

 

Great job and looking forward to see the results.

[EJ_L]

Matt, your rivets are looking fantastic and you have a great idea. I may have to try that on a future build.

 

As regards to sanity, every time I show one of my models and especially pictures of other people's models to friends and family they all just shake their heads and the most common phrase out of their mouths is along the lines of "that is crazy" or "you are insane". I think it must be a requirement then to be a little insane if you are going to be a scale model builder and especially a model ship builder. I mean really, who in their right mind would want to dedicate hundreds of hours to to the building of tiny parts all for something that just sits in a glass case if they even get finished in the first place?!?! That is right, us! If I had to choose a way to be insane this is one I am proud of.

[MEPering]

Hi Xken... Thanks for those links.  I will probably get those rivets in the future, but on this build, their smallest (.4mm) is just a little too big.  However, I have their site bookmarked, since I know of an unrelated application I can use those on, and looks like they have a lot of things I might have a need for.  And BTW, nice catch on that bowsprit round-to-square shaping on your build.  Had I not seen your post, I might have missed it.  Thanks.

 

Thanks, E.J. ...  I decided to precut some of these rivets/bolts today, to get an idea as to how long it was going to take.  For 100, it took me about 15 minutes, so I didn't think that was to bad.  I should be able to do 1000 in a couple hours with practice.  And I am guessing at this, but I am starting to think there are close to 5000 of them.  My jig for cutting them is just a piece of wood with a hole in it, drilled to the correct depth.  Then the wire is inserted and cut flush.  Once I get to the point where I am actually doing this ceiling planking, we shall see how it goes, but I think it will look fairly true to the prototype. 

 

Matt

[MEPering]

So instead of waste my whole day on gardening, planting and fixing one of the cooling fans on my car that wasn't running, I decided to do something important like starting to fair the hull of the Constitution.  I got the front starboard gun, anchor and bridle ports done.  I used my Dremel flex-shaft to get it roughly there, and the 150 grit sandpaper backed with wood to finish it.  I don't see any reason to go any finer than 150 grit for this process.  If someone thinks it needs to be finer, please let me know.  My logic for this rougher paper is that the glue I use in the planking process will have more 'tooth' to bite into.

 

Curiously, the instructions totally ignore the fairing process, though I did see a casual reference to it somewhere.  Having never faired a ship before, I am a bit in the dark here.  I think the only reason for this is to get the bulkheads and other structures mounted to them even, so that the planking lays flat upon them.  If this is the case, I think that this practice must have come about back when hide glue was the only available adhesive.  Hide glue used to be about the only glue there was for woodworking.  I have used true hide glue before, and it is a real headache.  It has to be hot, and it stinks.  But as far as strength goes, it is very, very strong.  It does have several drawbacks though... It won't fill gaps like modern adhesives can.  It also doesn't do well in humid environments.  I do like hide glue for what it is capable of, but I won't be using it on the Constitution.  Modern adhesives are better when things don't fit perfectly.  Hide glue also has the advantage that it is easily released... All it takes is some water.  And as mentioned before, it is very strong.

 

So here are the photos of the fairing so far.  I expect to get the rest of the starboard ports completed tomorrow.  It just takes a bit of work, and making sure the sanding board isn't digging in where you don't want it to.  This amount of work took me about 45 minutes, so I figure fairing will take me about 5 or 6 hours to complete.  Remember, there is inside bulwark fairing to do as well, which is more difficult.  I have done a bit of it too, and it is harder to get to with the portion of the main rail installed.

 

Matt

Edited May 25, 2016 by MEPering

[MEPering]

Finally got a little more work done on the ship.  I finished up the chase ports.  Now to finish up the topgallant rail and waterways and then finish fairing.  Planking is quickly approaching.  Apologies for the blurry pictures.

 

Matt

 

 

[David Lester]

Hi Matt,

Everything is looking pretty good to me.(I'm not expert of course, but I think it's looking good.) You mentioned the topgallant rail. Do you mean the actual rail itself, because if you do, you might want to consider adding it at a much later point. I still haven't added mine and I've almost finished all the upper hull details and deck details. I have found that the model undergoes quite a bit of manhandling up until this point and I was concerned about bashing it too much, which almost certainly would have been the case if it were in place. It's going to be the very last thing I do before adding the horse blocks, davits and anchors. Just a thought.

David

[MEPering]

Actually David, you make a good point.  My thinking was that it might help strengthen the bulwark extensions, but now that I think about it, the planking should be adequate enough to protect them.  And I am pretty certain I am going to be fairly rough on the ship once planking begins.  Like the gangway and hammock boards I wouldn't think of mounting before finishing planking and coppering, why should I risk the topgallant rail with it's intricate, fine molding?  A most logical suggestion, David, and I think I will take it.  Once again, I am finding the instructions should be considered as suggestions rather than instructions.  Thanks.

 

Matt

[David Lester]

Hi Matt,

My experience with the two MS kits I've had is that you can literally throw the so-called instruction booklet away. (However I don't believe that's the case with MS models where Chuck Passaro has written the instructions.)Pretty much everything you need seems to be in the plans, but as a very inexperienced modeler, the problem for me is how to read the plans and what is the best order in which to do things. This is where I have relied on my Bob Hunt practicums. I know there are two schools of thought on his courses, but from my point of view they have been fabulous. The primary advantages for me have been following the logical sequence they outline and confidence building. There are many elements that are common to all POB models and with a couple of builds under my belt following Bob's practicums, I feel quite confident that I could tackle almost any POB model on my own now and get a half decent result. I know I couldn't have otherwise. So while I'd like to take credit for the idea of holding off on installing the topgallant rail, really, I must give credit where credit is due and tell you that it's Bob's suggestion and it's proved to be a good one. I also learned that once that copper is in place you need to get the model in a stand or cradle right away and not move it any more than you have to as the copper plating is very fragile.

 

You are doing a beautiful job and braver than I would have been.

David

[EJ_L]

She is looking real nice. Your framing is great. Clean and neat and once you finish fairing everything up she should be good to go for planking.

 

I would agree with holding off on the rail till much later. If you are worried about stability you can always tack a temporary batten across the extensions. A lot of instructions say to put this on early but after breaking a few of them off on my first models and realizing that you gain nothing by doing it early other than rework later, I now skip that step.

 

I have learned that building ships is much more than following directions. It is instead more of learning to read blue prints and schematics which typically tell you what needs to be there but it is up to you to know in what order this needs to happen. Experience is really the only way to learn this. Yes, read practicums, and build logs though keep in mind many things will be different based on the builder's experience and level of detail used. Combine that with the knowledge of the ship available at the time the information was written and you will find yourself with many different ways of achieving a great ship though rarely will any two look alike. With a more popular ship such as the one you are building that information is much more readily available but, the variances between sources will be greater. With a rarer ship, typically there is less information but what exists usually stays closer to each other unless something new is discovered.

 

As a new ship builder, (and I count myself one) this can be very frustrating as you want to build a great ship but don't always know all the tricks and secrets and the order they need to happen. This is where you are succeeding in great strides. You are thinking things through, staying steps ahead and asking questions of those with more experience. Read, research, read and read some more. See what others have done and decide if that is what you want/need to do.  Take full advantage of sites like this one where the wealth of the world of model ship building can teach and guide you on your journey.

 

Above all though have fun. Enjoy your build for the fun it is and the knowledge will come.

[MEPering]

Thanks David and E.J.  It is good when you haven't got any experience to get feedback like this from those who do have experience.  I did consider the LSS course, but that was before I discovered Model Ship World... lol.  Actually, I like the challenge of figuring things out, and Bob's practicum probably would have been too much direct instruction for my liking.  I typically learn the most when I have a steep learning-curve to surmount.

 

And yes... It has been a lot of fun so far... more so than I had originally anticipated.  And I haven't even gotten to the visible parts of the ship yet.  But I think this forum has contributed quite a bit to that too.  I don't feel I am stumbling along in the dark as much with the build logs I can read and feedback I get here.

 

Matt

[MEPering]

It has been a few days since my last update, but my Admiral sprung on me that she wants a deck built on the bacl of the house, 12' x 30", and she wants it by the 4th of July.  Since I am a one-man-shop, this leaves little time for shipyard work.  But I did get just a little time tonight to check some things as I was beginning fairing.  I made a mistake.

 

My gun deck gun ports are not in the correct position.  The are very close, but they are still off.  This is a mistake, but it is not major, since I intended on showing the ship with ports closed in most positions anyway.  The way I positioned the ports was to use a 1/4" spacer to make them even with the top of the gun deck's bottom.  This did not work, since there is variance in how the laser cut bulkheads are cut.  Perhaps if I had faired the gun deck first, then this would have worked.  But I didn't.

 

In hindsight, I should not have assembled the gun port frames off of the ship.  Or perhaps I should have done it differently.  But if I were to do it again, I would assemble them on the ship, and then fit the laser cut backs to them.  This would have been much more accurate.  Had I done it in this manner, this mistake would have been totally avoided.  You should be able to see the variance in the picture below.

 

So how to solve the problem?  Well, it is more simple than it might seem at first.  Once the planking is on from the main rail down to those ports, then it is a matter of shimming and filing.  As I said, the error is not that much, and since most of my gun ports are going to be closed, this is how I will solve the problem. 

 

Now I could also go to an extreme and chop out those ports and rebuild them, but it is really unnecessary.  In most cases, this is only 1/32nd variance.  If you look carefully at the picture, You should be able to see that.  And it is just a few that are off.  I just wanted to throw this out there to warn people about using my original method.  When a ship sits in port, the ports are often opened to provide ventilation and drying.  My ship is in port with sails off for repair, but I am only going to show a few open, so it is not a major fix.  Just a warning to you who are starting this ship.

 

Matt

 

 

[MEPering]

Fairing is coming along slowly, as the deck off the back of our house is taking priority, but I almost have the starboard side done.  I don't have pics of it, but it is pretty standard stuff, but the crappy luane plywood that the bulkheads are faced with are terrible when it comes to adhering to their substrate.  I have been impressed by Model Shipways in their craftsmanship so far, but these bulkheads are crap as far as the faces.  Why even face them, when they aren't even seen anyway?  Maybe they got a deal on this cheap stuff. 

 

I don't mean to sound like I am bashing Model Shipways, but it is what it is.  It is a quality kit.  Perhaps my technique should be modified to reinforce the bulkheads with CA.  But that makes it a bit tougher to fair also.  I will not be using CA to attach the planking, as I prefer a PVA for this.  I knew a man once who did use CA to attach a quarter to his front steps, just to see how many bent over to pick it up.  This was right after CA came out, and he did have some stories to tell about it.  A quarter was worth a lot more back then.

 

Anyway... Fairing continues on the starboard side, and hopefully I will be planking in a couple of weeks.

 

Matt

[David Lester]

Hi Matt,

I wouldn't sweat the fairing on this model too much. The MS Constitution is only my second build, so I'm hardly an expert, but I found that there wasn't really that much fairing required, certainly not when compared to my MS Armed Virginia Sloop which is a much smaller model. I think it's because the model is so large that the majority of the bulkheads through the central portion of the hull need minimal attention. I agree that the plywood bulkheads are a nightmare to sand. They were solid basswood on the AVS and were very nice to work with.

 

I haven't built a kit by another manufacturer yet, so I can't legitimately comment on the quality of MS kits when compared to others, but from what I gather reading many different build logs is that none of them is perfect. I have a Mamoli kit waiting in the wings, so I'm looking forward to finding out how building it compares.

 

David

[MEPering]

Thanks, David.  I am noticing that the fairing is not to bad here as well, but having time to get a bit of it done is.  Since we are both doing the MS version, I wouldn't expect it to be that different.  However, for me, to find time to work on it is getting to be a challenge.  I mentioned in and earlier post that I am busy with a deck on the rear of our home, and that is preventing me from shipyard work at the moment.  But this too shall pass and I will get back to it.

 

But that doesn't mean I don't have time to think about the ship.  I have decided that if I am going to do the simulated rivets, I need a bit smaller wire.  It is currently looking like .010 or perhaps even smaller.  This gives rise to another question though... How am I going to make them seen.  I feel this is an important detail, but it must be close to scale.  To exaggerate a fine detail like this will detract from the model instead of making it more realistic.  I know it is impossible to make an exact model, but I want to make this as close as I can to the prototype. 

 

With that being said, perhaps this detail should not appear on the model.  I have seen others who have included it, and I applaud them for such a titanic effort, bit is it worth it?  I know it is going to bother me if I don't include it, but I also know that most people won't notice if I do include it.  So the quandary continues.  I am still not sure.  When we are considering a projection of 1/2" at most from the bulwark on the prototype, it becomes very hard to justify the inclusion of such a detail. 

 

So what do you all think?  Is it important, or should it be ignored?  I shall await responses.

 

Matt

[CaptainSteve]

It truly is your decision, and yours alone, Matt. For myself, I would very much like to include every detail that every other builder has added to their own Connie builds.

 

Indeed, having done three builds previously, I have never, ever met anyone who has said "You missed such-and-such", or "Where's the so-and-so ??". All of the details that you have included will be enough for the majority of viewers (who are NOT Naval historians) to just go "Wow !!", instead.

 

On the contrary, most people are content to just look at what has been done, and (even for work done by a novice builder such as myself) comment on how good it looks. Whilst I know for a fact that there were some features (especially on my first build) which I personally find cringe-worthy, these issues have never been pointed out by anyone viewing the work.

 

For myself, when looking at any decent ship model, I am overwhelmed by what HAS been included, and overlook anything that may be missing.

Edited June 13, 2016 by CaptainSteve

[EJ_L]

I agree with what Captain Steve has said And would only add that unless you are building on commission or with intent to sell to a museum build it the way you want to see it as you will be both its biggest fan and critic so she needs to make you happy.

[JSGerson]

I am still working on my first real build but plan to construct the Constitution in the future. At this stage I am planning to include the rivets because I see them on the real ship. Even though they are small and may be over looked by the casual observer, it does give texture and authenticity to the model.

 

As an example, I've included tree nails in my Rattlesnake build. I did not enhance the contrast or in any way make make them conspicuous so at a slight distance they are not noticeable. As the observer is drawn closer to the model by just looking at it, more and more detail is revealed. It is that act of discovery that delights the observer. As many modeler know, there is a lot of detail that is almost impossible to see (for God's eye) but somehow the effect of that detail is felt. Finally, the detail that is included is up to the builder to the extent that makes him/her feel good about making the model in the first place.

 

That is my personal humble opinion

 

Jon

[MEPering]

Thanks for the responses, CaptainSteve, EJ. and Jon.  I don't think there is a wrong answer here.  I do think that I am going to attempt the bolts/rivets after thinking about it more though.  What made me wonder about it was that I wanted to fair the inner bulwarks, which if I had the bolts/rivets installed, would not be possible.  So I had to come up with a solution.  I think I have now.  So I will be installing them. 

 

There were basically 4 ways to approach this problem.  The first option was to forget about emulating the feature, but it is prominent on the ship, so I decided against it unless I can't make my method work.  The second option was to just fit the planks with the fixtures, and not worry about fairing them.  This is an unacceptable solution to me, since at this scale, with the variance in the planks I have, things would have looked too much out of scale.   The third way to do this is to install the planks, fair them, and then install the fixtures.  This is a viable approach, but it is labor intensive, and could lead to excessive variance in fixture height. 

 

Well, except for the third approach, these are not viable from a modelling perspective.  However, the fourth solution seems to be the best.  This is, to mount the planks with an easily dissolved adhesive, fair them, then dismount them one at a time, attach the fixtures, and remount them permanently.  This seem like a lot of work, and I am sure it will be.  But this seems to me to be the best way to handle this problem.  If anyone can suggest a better way, I would love to hear it.  The fixtures have to be very subtle, due to scale.  Tiny dots of glue I have used on plastic models, but I have never been satisfied with the irregularity this method has given me.  I will do a test on this method, and post it soon.

 

Matt

[MEPering]

Actually, Geoff, the rivets go all the way through, but are flush with the back of the bulwark planks.  CA or super glue will probably be applied from the back to hold them in position, relying on capillary action to suck the glue in.  The problem with this is that it stiffens the plank quite a lot.  So heating the plank will be necessary to make it fit after the studs are mounted, and after the fairing has occurred.  This may be easier than it appears, since the copper wire conducts heat very quickly.  Brass wire would do so almost as quickly. 

 

This being said, I think that the bulwarks should be done on the interior of the deck before the external planking should go on.  This allows for mistakes to be removed more easily.  Of course, this means exterior planking, at least for the bulwarks, needs to be perfect.  Due to less curvature in the outer planking, I think this should be the better approach.

 

I wish I could get to the ship to test some of these things, but it has been so busy this summer, I can't seem to do this at this time.  Building this deck off the house is taking all of my time at the moment, and probably will through the first of July... Possibly longer.  But this gives me time to think, so it is not all bad.  As a first ship for me, I think I should be spending about 10 hours of thinking for 1 hour of building.  The building I miss though, and I shall return to it as soon as I can get to it.

 

Matt

[WackoWolf]

Geoff has a good idea

[MEPering]

Well, I finished my deck, and immediately got thrown into another situation.  And then another after another.  So Constitution is still on hold.  

 

But I got impatient.  Ship building, I find, is sort of addictive...  Coming from railroading, it surprises me how satisfying it is.  But I want my Connie to be as perfect as I can get her, so I have not touched it since my last update.

 

That being said, I was frustrated at not being able to practice modelling, so I went to my local hobby shop and bought Model Expo's "Fair American".  That was last March.  I finally started it around a month and a half ago, just to try my hand at various tasks that would be required for Constitution.  It really didn't occur to me to start a build log on it, but I notice now that there are not many on it. 

 

So Constitution is on hold for the moment.  The build of "Fair American" is coming soon.

 

Matt

[Tom Schongar]

nice work! your almost done with the hardest parts of the ship. Take your time, your sanding stick and files are your friends. lol

 

 

[Mike Shea]

Can't wait for your next update! Great work indeed. I have this model as well and just finished the keel work and ready to 'dry fit' the bulkheads. Your build log and everyone's advice has been a great help. Btw, you mentioned that you're coming from railroading. Modeling or work? I work for a Class 1 railroad as a loco engineer.