Cutty Sark by Primey - Arkit - Scale 1:78

[Primey]

My absolute first model ship build, this guy had an old kit for sale, only $50, can't resist a bargain and always wanted to build a model wooden ship. Not sure about the brand the box says Arkit the instructions say Panther, and don't even know how old. It must be reasonably old as this paragraph in the instructions wouldn't appear these days, amusing. Anyhow here's where I'm up to, seems to be going OK so far but I can envisage that help will be needed shortly that's why I'm participating in this forum. Up to the second planking using walnut veneer strips that don't completely go from bow to stern, I'm guessing I need to cut them and stagger the planking.  Any constructive comments most welcome. Cheers from Australia. Primey.

[popeye the sailor]

well,  for one thing....you won't need those rollers       to be honest...I've never heard of the manufacturer,  but it looks like your doing a super job so far!

     got a kick out of the paragraph.......at least they have a sense of humor     yes......if the walnut planking doesn't go from bow to stern,  most likely,  you'll have to do scale planking,  or some form of it.   there are tutorials here on the site,  or do a search and you'll find plenty of material on the subject.   you've probably done some tapering of the planking,  with the first planking.......your familiar with that.....it's a very good start.  there are also many fine books out there,  that have good information on clipper ships.   research is key.......most models lack detail that will enhance the model.   adding extra detail not only gives good results,  but it make ya feel good,  cuz you pulled it off  

 

I'm sure others who have more knowledge than me will chime in along the way.......post plenty of pictures and ask any question you encounter...no matter how odd..........there's no such thing as a silly question.   I'm pull'in up a seat........this looks like a neat look'in build.   I'm off to go look'in up this company  

 

great job so far.........remember......daunted is not in the modeler's vocabulary  

[NenadM]

Wellcome to CS fleet!

 

Just echo Popeye's words of wisdom: research! And patience! And enjoy!

 

Good start with fine lines of hull. Keep on posting!

[popeye the sailor]

saw a few of these kits on the various E-Bays........UK.......Japan......looks like they are  {or were} based out of Spain.  I couldn't find a website for them.  I did see an Australian model train company by that name.

[Primey]

Thanks Popeye and Nenad. I will continue to research, I notice a lot of models use copper plating below water line rather than veneer strips I'm guessing that copper is a preferred material by model builders. I'll post a couple more photos leading up to the models current state soon. Your help is and will be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

[NenadM]

There are a lot "coopering" photos of CS. That layer goes over planking, and on this point you will meet color question No 1: on CS is used, so called "Myntz" metal, which has more yellow tone than pure cooper color.

 

But, you can not find Myntz foil on market ...

 

Also test for you to recognize how big are your ambitions with your model: rivets? 4-5000 strips with rivets? Veneer for second layer? 1-2mm wide strips of veneer? How long? Colored hull or natural wood?

 

Wellcome to the yellow brick road, and remember - all is fun and joy!

 

Btw, nice scale for a lot of details

 

Sorry for my bad English if I use or write unproper word

Edited May 12, 2016 by Nenad

[Primey]

Yes Nenad you make a good point, I'm staying with the kit and will second plank the hull with veneer.

 

Language is always hard in different countries and can be amusing, when you say a lot of coopering (coppering) i think of my favourite beer. Either way there will be a lot of coopering before I'm finished.

 

Here some other build photos;

[NenadM]

 

Language ... can be amusing ... coopering ...

 

Hi hi hi hi... when post from phone and have not spelling checker ... we are talking about beer or bear ? I made THIS mistake in one of my posts ... suppose people who read fall under table laughing

 

Looking photos you posted ... are you sure it is your first ?

[Primey]

Yes, have never done this before. I must say that I have had this Kit for two years and over that time did a lot of research on the tips and tricks to building. However there is not a lot about the second planking with veneer which is where I am now. So probably wait till I'm confident with the research and advise I get before I go forward.

[popeye the sailor]

there are a few different approaches to planking.   I'm not an expert at it.   looking at your photos,  in planking at the stern,  you've already done a  'stealer', which is simply a wedge of planking used to fill in a gap.   basically,  it follows the way that the plank wants to run.   but there are time where the plank wants to run on top of the previous planking.   here,  you want to taper the plank....remove that excess material,  so that the plank will fall into place without hinder.

    the best way to do it,  is to create a straight line along the hull {bow to stern},  and maintain that line all the way to the keel.   using the scale planking method,  as I mentioned earlier,  you can work with a shorter plank and shape it much easier.   some folks will figure and determine what the scale length is for their particular scale,  but there is an easier way {that I use}.   I use two bulkheads as the scale length.   where you mentioned that the veneer is shorter than the hull,  this should work well for you.  remember to end your plank on half the bulkhead width,  so that the next one butted to it has a cement point.

    one method will have you  'band off'  quadrants of the hull form bow to stern.  with this method,  the planks are trimmed to fit the quadrant,  before moving on to the next one.  each quadrant is measured so that all of them are equal and take into account that the bow and stern are wider than the mid ship.  this will determine how the plank must be fashioned to fit the quadrant and fill it in.  every method use these three ways of preparation.

 

taper:    when a plank wants to fall over the previous plank line.  this excess material need to be trimmed and removed,  so the plank will fall into place naturally,  without any gaps.

 

stealers:   when a plank wants to fall away from the plank line,  leaving a gap.  the field in which this plank is to lay,  is too wide.  there are two methods to remedy this,  but this the easier of the two,  and is mostly used at the stern.   a wedge of planking is trimmed to shape and installed,  filling in the gap,  and maintaining the plank line.

 

jogging {or joggling}:   this is the second approach to the stealer,  and is mostly used at the bow.   this calls for the merging of two planks at the bow,  into one at the mid ship,  back to two planks at the stern.  two planks are tapered towards the mid ship,  each tapered to 1/2 the width of the plank.  the mid ship planking butts up to these planks and runs until the width begins to widen from the line again towards the stern.  at this point,  it will then be tapered and fitted back to two planks for the stern.  the plank line must be maintained throughout this process.  this doesn't always occur like this,  but that's where careful planning come into play.

 

from what I see,  there are no hard rules to planking....it changes from ship to ship.  some start at the bulwarks...some start at the keel.   some will even plank down to the chine and then merge it from the keel.   the second planking goes a bit easier,  working with thin strips.  I try to do the best I can with the first planking.....most of the time I could get away from doing the second planking. {unless it's a decorative wood or too many glue blotches}       I hope I gave you something useful........as mentioned,  there are folks who are much better at it than I am.  it gets the job done  

[popeye the sailor]

I should also mention that,  if your planning to paint the hull,  you can use filler to fix all of the imperfections....prime and paint.   save all that wonderful walnut for trim work and other fun stuff.  if you still wish to veneer and are going to do the coppering too........mark off the waterline,  plank down to that line,  and then copper from there.   many creative ways to accomplish this.  

[Primey]

I'm not going to complicate things too much, so here is what I will do;

 

Scale plank as you suggest, some suggest an average length of a plank was 30ft so scaling down (1:78) would be approx 12cm (4.7 inches) I would have thought that planks ended on a bulkhead and this would not happen if planks are all the same size. So that's why I like the idea of planks being two bulkheads long so probably go with this and custom cut each veneer plank and stagger as usual.

 

I will use tapers and stealers - jogging seems more difficult so might leave this alone.

 

The Bulwarks need veneer planking inside and out, the veneer planks for this job do go from bow to stern so would you suggest leaving them the full length or scale planking. I'm leaning towards leaving them full length - I'm a little reluctant to cut them if I don't have to

 

Here are my instructions for 2nd planking, not comprehensive and they seem to suggest that planks cover the length of the hull.

[Primey]

One more question, my instruction advise to 2nd plank first then affix the prow, keel and rudder posts. I'm thinking of affixing the posts first and then 2nd plank, that way I can cover any small join imperfections with the veneer. Any thoughts.

[hof00]

Hi Chap,

Welcome to the Forum!! (Esp. Cutty Sark Nuts, Like me!!)

 

That model looks like a cross between Artesania Latina and the Mantua version. (Atesania is smaller scale but same construction method, Mantua is the same scale as yours.)

 

If you use the A/L doctrine for Planking, they advise Stem/Stern Post/Keel after first Planking, then second cover. You may need to score a rebate the same thickness of your second cover, (I'm guessing 0.5mm?), for the Planking to "Slot" into in these components.

If Stem/Stern/Keel are added after the second cover you may require a little more filler in places.

 

Personal choice, have a good look/think before deciding what is best for your particular model.

 

Your build looks good!!

 

My second cover was Stem to Stern, as it was painted/Coppered there was no need to make things more complex, me anyway.

 

Happy to offer any assistance.

There are a few build logs for the Cutty. (HOF00/Neenad/Markjay)

 

Cheers....HOF.

Edited May 13, 2016 by hof00

[Primey]

Thanks hof00, I can see how a small rebate in the posts will provide a nice finish to the second planking, so I will affix the posts first.

 

As you say either way should be OK, personal choice.

[markjay]

Welcome to the site...the sail instructions are about the best I've seen...real nice build.

[Primey]

Some progress, planking the inside and outside the bulwarks. My Kit only has just enough veneer for planking, so can't afford too many errors. Getting hold of more veneer should be easy enough I hope. Decided to cut the veneer (two bulkheads long), just seemed to be easier to glue on.

[hof00]

Looks like the A/L version on Steroids!!

 

Doing well Chap.

 

Cheers....HOF.

[petervisser]

Hi Primey,

 

I just ran across your CS log and just wanted to chime in on your great planking work so far. I am also a Cutty Sark builder so I'd like to follow along. It will be interesting to see the materials and fittings supplied with the kit as your build log progresses. The wood looks to be in great shape for such an old kit. I have never heard of this kit manufacturer, and I suspect you're the only member on the site with this kit. A unique build log, to be sure!

 

Have fun!

 

Peter

[Primey]

Thanks Peter

 

The hull has a 2nd cover of walnut veneer, this wood is not in the best shape and I might be lucky to have enough. So going to the local hobby shop to see if I can match up the walnut color.

 

I'll post some photos of the fittings shortly.

 

Being my first attempt at construction I am happy with any suggestions you may have, if you can see something I could change or do better just let me know.

 

Primey

[Primey]

Some pictures of the kit fittings. N.B. Life boats are metal

[heksanol]

I like it that they actually show the part numbers for each component in each container. Makes it a little more easier and convenient at the end of the day.

[mojofilter]

Hello Primey -

 

I too will pull up a chair and watch your build.  I must say, so far, nicely done!

I lurk on the CS build logs as I have one (Mantau/Sergal, also 1:78) under the workbench, waiting for Yacht America to be finished.  A ways off but in the meantime, soaking up tips and wisdom like a sponge on a puddle of spilled Coopers.

My only advise at this point is to consider copper plating the hull.  CS looks so nice with a copper bottom, and there are many examples and tips on it.  The Mantua kit comes with something like 1300 individual plates.  Think of it this way, that's only 650 per side!  Piece of cake!

Ive seen other kits with self-adhesive tape, one plate wide that I gather, goes on like planking.  I think you have to apply the 'rivets' first.  On America, I used tape that was three plates wide and ~eight plates long (3/4" wide X 6" long) and applied the 'rivets' with a pounce wheel from the back side.

 

Either way, she looks like she is going to be a fine build.  Looking forward to your progress!

 

- Tim

Edited May 17, 2016 by mojofilter

[Primey]

Hi Tim

 

I do like the copper, I'll do some research.

 

I was going to construct as designed (and still might) but can see how the copper would add that bit extra.

 

Primey

[Primey]

Have decided to ignore the instructions and proceeded to fix the prow, keel and rudder posts before second plank. Spent a day working out how to rebate the posts so that the veneer would make a nice join. After a lot of errors finally success (according to me anyway). Some sanding and tidy up still needed, After reading a lot about planking, after I had finished the first layer, I have realised the error of my ways.

Now need to work out if I have enough veneer.

Dilemma, if I run out of the original veneer and have not finished . Walnut veneer is available at the hobby shop - colour is different Buy all new walnut veneer and 2nd cover and do I use copper?????

Have i got this correct, the copper tiles are glued over the top of the 2nd plank layer, waterline down. Is there a waterline rebate needed for a smooth join?

[Primey]

Not enough veneer supplied in the kit, about 4+ metres short. So one questioned answered.

[petervisser]

Hi Primey,

 

I'm a user of copper tape for my copper bottomed hulls. I have used it on my Bounty and E'toile with satisfying results. Being an adhesive tape, there's no glue involved so it's quick and easy. I'm a fan of "quick and easy".

 

The tape is also thin enough that a rebate is not necessary.

 

Hope this is a help.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

[Primey]

Thanks Peter, Sounds good. I'll give it a go.

[Primey]

2nd planking sounds so easy when reading the instructions. Progress has been accomplished - one side done. Tried to follow the "planking for beginners" guide but ran into so many issues. Covering with copper will be helpful in masking mistakes - I mean my individuality. 

Next - 2nd plank the other side - gap filler both sides then sand - stain the walnut darker (thinking this will make a better contrast) - then copper plates. Sounds simple when you list your tasks but nothing surer it wont be.

 

[donrobinson]

Your planking is looking good. Will be watching your progress