Planking questions

[tarmes]

Hi,

 

I'm currently in the research stage, I intend to order my kit this week (the Amati 1700/10 J-Class yacht).

 

I've been reading through every single resource I can find on planking techniques, and I have a few questions that I'm struggling to find answers for.

 

1) There's a lot of information out there on the spiling technique. There's no doubt that the results look cool, but I'm curious as to how this relates to the real world building. Are full scale boats every planked using this technique? I can't image that the wast of wood would be acceptable. If this is just for looks then I'm surprised that scale accuracy isn't more of a concern for many builders, is that the case?

 

2) With regards to the spiling technique, what's the situation in a kit where there are two layers of planking? Is splining really reserved for a single layer?

 

3) Since this is my first build I currently plan to use the wood stock that comes wit the kit (no spiling therefore). In this case I'm really struggling to find some good resources for this style of planking - can anyone please suggest some?

 

4) I bought the book called "Ship Modeling Simplified". In that book the author places each plank in place, temporarily bends it to mark the overlap points with the previous plank, then cuts a straight line between the two points. I've not seen this method documented anywhere else and I'd like to know what experienced builders think of it. 

 

5) The only other resource I'd found for planking using the kit supplied wood chooses to instead divide up the hull into parts, measure the width of each of the planks to each bulkhead, then sand down each plank to get the width required (

). How effective is this compared to the method described in (4) ?

 

Thanks,

 

Tim 

[mtaylor]

Hi Tim,

 

Method 4 or 5 will give you a nice appearing hull.  Do consider using that of #5 to prevent things going wildly out control due to tolerance buildup, .. or not.  

 

Spiling is the way the old ships were done, however.  For a double planked hull, you can spile the first layer but it will be hidden by the second.

 

If you look at the planking tutorials at the top of this section, you'll get some good ideas.

 

Also, in the article database here:  http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-modeling-articles-and-downloads.php In the planking section is a good article "Simple Hull Planking for Beginners" which might be very useful.

 

Good luck.  

[Jaager]

There are some terms that have "evolved" from their origins.  The original term is usually better at defining the function.

One is ceiling  -  it was originally  "sealing"  - the inside layer of planking.

 

Another is spilling --originally  spoiling  -  as in spoiling the plank.  It gives a better idea of the sentiments involved in cutting away as much if not more of the wood used as a plank.  They obviously hated the waste involved.

 

Wood will bend without too much complaint ( depending on species ) in and out of the plane of its narrowest dimension.   It will resist being bent in the thicker dimension.  Seeking the least resistance it will tend to twist.  A ships hull is subject to constant forces in three dimensions.  Having a plank that "wants" to spring back to its original shape being assisted by wind and wave = springing a leak.   Usually, the planks were steamed or soaked -bent - dried in new shape to get the lignin and other wood fiber binders to reset to the new shape and hold it - like a steel plate.

 

If you only use the narrow kit supplied wood stock - instead of cutting a "jigsaw" piece from wider stock - for hull planking, rails, and waterways- just understand that you are not simulating how the original vessel was built.

[tarmes]

Hi,

 

Thanks for your responses. I have some more questions now

 

Hi Tim,

 

Method 4 or 5 will give you a nice appearing hull.  Do consider using that of #5 to prevent things going wildly out control due to tolerance buildup, .. or not.  

 

Spiling is the way the old ships were done, however.  For a double planked hull, you can spile the first layer but it will be hidden by the second.

 

If you look at the planking tutorials at the top of this section, you'll get some good ideas.

 

Also, in the article database here:  http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-modeling-articles-and-downloads.php In the planking section is a good article "Simple Hull Planking for Beginners" which might be very useful.

 

Good luck.  

 

I wasn't expecting spiling to be the true original method. That's really good to know. Given the  fairly extreme shapes that I've seen produced, how did they get wood stock that was wide enough?

 

When choosing to spile a 2-layer kit, do builders then choose to only have one layer instead (so you can see the result)? Given the fact that the kit is designed for 2 layers, does that then cause other problems later? Or should spiling only ever be considered for single layer kits in the first place?

 

I've read the "Simple Hull Planking for Beginners", and unless I'm misunderstanding they're basically using the same technique that's shown in the video that I posted earlier. In considering this method in comparison to #4, I have a concern...

 

In method #4, since the plank is being temporarily bent into place, marked, then cut, the resulting cut is effectively taking into account the curve of the hull. In this respect it shares a similartuy with the spiling technique in that the shape of the resulting plank allows it to follow the shape of the hull while only being bent along it's length and twisted. It doesn't have to bend across the width. This is obviously a good thing.

 

In #5 we're simply measuring the width at each bulkhead and then cutting the plank so that it has the right width at each point. It seems to me then this method doesn't take the hull shape into account. When the plank is bent around the hull I would expect to have to slightly force it up/down to mate up with the previous plank, thus forcing it to bend in all 3 dimensions.

 

Am I misunderstanding something? Why do you feel that #5 is better for keeping things under control?

Why can't I find anything online at all that describes technique #4?

 

There are some terms that have "evolved" from their origins.  The original term is usually better at defining the function.

One is ceiling  -  it was originally  "sealing"  - the inside layer of planking.

 

Another is spilling --originally  spoiling  -  as in spoiling the plank.  It gives a better idea of the sentiments involved in cutting away as much if not more of the wood used as a plank.  They obviously hated the waste involved.

 

Wood will bend without too much complaint ( depending on species ) in and out of the plane of its narrowest dimension.   It will resist being bent in the thicker dimension.  Seeking the least resistance it will tend to twist.  A ships hull is subject to constant forces in three dimensions.  Having a plank that "wants" to spring back to its original shape being assisted by wind and wave = springing a leak.   Usually, the planks were steamed or soaked -bent - dried in new shape to get the lignin and other wood fiber binders to reset to the new shape and hold it - like a steel plate.

 

If you only use the narrow kit supplied wood stock - instead of cutting a "jigsaw" piece from wider stock - for hull planking, rails, and waterways- just understand that you are not simulating how the original vessel was built.

 

Thanks of that information Jaager! I'm a sailor myself and I didn't know where those terms came from, so now I can impress my sailing buddies

 

Tim

 

[mtaylor]

Tim,

 

I'll answer the best I can...

 

#5 works well for kit wood as there's no extra for spiling.  You'll also probably need to use stealers and drop planks.    If you apply heat and soaking, bending the wood is pretty easy and will fit quite well.  

 

For kit, most, if they spile, just spile the 2nd (outer most) layer.  The first layer isn't seen so many (myself included) use filler to get a smooth form for planking.

 

I can't answer why #4 isn't used.  Or maybe it is and has not been identified as the method used.

 

Planking, like many other things, is one of those things that you'll have to try yourself.  Spiling is the "real" technique, the rest are simulations.     But use the one you feel comfortable with and gives the appearance that you like.  I found spliing not to be that difficult when I stepped into scratch building but then again, I made sure to have a pile of wood handy to allow for waste.  If I didn't, I would have used a different method.

[KeithAug]

Hello Tim

 

J class hulls have finer lines and less pronounced changes in curvature than many boats. When I built my Amati Endeavour I found that it planked very well with parallel planks. The finish also looked good.

 

Lots of planking detail in my build logs that may be of interest to you.

 

Keith

[slow2cool]

Hi Tarmes

I have done the kit you are talking about. This type of hull will not need to be spil. 

The planks will lay very nice.

Not sure what this type of bow is called.

I know the buff bow ( I think that's what it is called ) needs to be spiled, or you end up planks that don't run all the way to the bow. This is how one of  my ships came out. Only because I didn't order wider planks. One of these days I will try to spil.

I have spent days reading how to.

This is place to find what you need to know.

Happy Building

Joe