Cutty Sark by mojofilter - Sergal/Mantua - 1:78

[mojofilter]

Guess this time I'll start at the beginning.  I'll spare the group the open box pictures.  I did inventory everything in there.  It's all there.  The wood strips, plywood etc. look like pretty good quality.  The laser cut parts are nice and clean - although I've learned here not to trust them.  I'll be looking at the member logs of the same kit (Art. 789) for trouble spots.

Like a lot of other kits, the blocks are terrible.  The rope set and deadeyes are not too bad, but I'll replace them all with Syren model Co.'s materials.

Right out of the box the keel is warped - actually just bowed.  I'll probably do inter-bulkhead spacer blocks, so I figure I can straighten it at that step.

As expected the cast parts will need a lot of cleanup, and the stanchions are flat etched brass, so I'll have to replace them:

 

 

This thing is big!!  I have no idea what I'll do with it when it's done, but I figure I have years to worry about that.

 

 

Wish me luck!

 

- Tim

Edited December 23, 2016 by mojofilter

[markjay]

Hi Tim, good luck on the new project. I'm building the CS as well but I've put it on the self in order to finish up another project that's been begging completion.Your keel issue sounds familiar. My suggestion in to photograph the H--- out of it from all angles, study them carefully if not to your liking, contact your supplier.While you are thinking of getting rope and block replacement consider smaller grating as well the the scale supplied is way to big.

Also make sure you add blocking between the bulkheads, in my opinion they will help when it comes to an even and smooth planking job.

Have a happy holiday... If you want to contact me send a pm.

Mark


 

[hof00]

Hi Tim,

Certainly brings back memories....

I put the Stanchions aside, "Flat" just isn't right. I used Billings, 2 Hole Stanchions. There's quite a few.

If you can, good resource material is Plans from the Cutty Sark Society in Grennwich. (A Print Shop will be able to enlarge them for you. (I don't think that you will infringe any Copyright.

 

Happy to offer any advice from my perspective.

 

Cheers....HOF. (Harry)

[mojofilter]

Thank you Mark and HOF.

 

Where can I get grating to correct scale?  I didn't see it on Syren's site.

I was hoping that blocking in between bulkheads would bring the keel into line.  I've seen here that bringing blocking all the way out, and then fairing the blocking to the bulkheads really helps with planking, so I'll try it.  I didn't on America and some places required a lot of filler to fair her hull.

 

I will look at the Billings stanchions.

I will go with 3mm deck planking instead of 4mm.  I know GaryM plans on 2mm but I don't think I could pull that off.

Cutty Sark has (and always had?) teak deck planking - what do you folks recommend that would look close?

I got a set of plans from the CS museum shop in Greenwich some time ago and I will have them scaled - as soon as I can find them 

I also have the C. Nepean Longridge The Ship and the Model (in two volumes).

And the Basil Lubbock Log of the Cutty Sark book just for fun.

 

There are so many examples on the forum and a treasure trove of knowledge and experience to draw on - plus, she still exists.

 

Thanks, and Merry Christmas to all!!

 

- Tim

[hof00]

Hi Tim,

Gratings are fine, but, I chose to go "Scale" and made hatches. (Didn't like the Gratings, but, your choice.)

Filler stuff between the Bulkheads, again your choice, I didn't, but, your Model, your Ship, you choose to make your piece of Marine Art.

(Whatever you are comfortable with.)

 

You may find that the Keel pulls "True" after you slot things together, Dry Fit?

The Laser Cut stuff is pretty spot on.

 

Pleased you have the resource material, it's wot I started with before I got into the "Nitty Gritty."

One thing I forgot with my build was putting Tree Nails into the Deck Planks.... anyway, I was far too far along with the build and no one is going to notice, unless you tell them!!

 

Regarding Deck Planking, I used the Kit stuff, again, my little piece of art.

Looks o.k. and no one is anyone the wiser. (Yup, Teak Planks for the Deck but I felt just fine with the Basswood.)

(I came into some planks of Teak recently but you will have to come and buy them off me. )

 

Be aware also that the Sergal version has Tapered Mainmasts, this is definitely not the case, you will need to get Mast Fittings modified/manufactured. (A friendly Manufacturing Jeweller is also a good resource. (I got Bumpkins made also with my resource!! )

 

The Longridge Book is really good, I got a first Edition off Abe Books, the Log is also a wonderful read, Historically.

(All sorts went on, Assaults, Suicide, Murder, Etc!!)

 

My C/S took me about six years of weekends to complete, unfazed by this, it was something that I needed to complete. (Memory of my Father.) Some days, I'd go in to the Ship Room and Walk back out.

 

Anyway, don't be put off by my ramblings, Enjoy the journey....

Happy to assist if I can. (I have literally hundreds of photos if that helps.)

 

Merry Christmas, and as I always say, Happy Guy Fawkes!!

 

Cheers....HOF.

Edited December 24, 2016 by hof00

[NenadM]

Wellcome to CS fleet on MSW!

[mojofilter]

Thank you Nenad - I will try to post often for you.  Your photos are going to be a great help.

 

HOF - your secret is safe with me!  I plan to do tree nails as I did with America, a sharp pointed HB pencil.  I'll have to remind myself if there are two nails or one at the end of each plank.  Also what the run was; 1,2,1,2, or 1,2,3,1,2,3.

Thanks,

 

- Tim

[hof00]

Hi Tim,

From the Longridge book it's 5, 2, 4. 3, 1

(That's in my memory, could be wrong.... )

 

Enjoy!!

 

Cheers....HOF.

[jcasini]

I just started the Sergal Cutty Sark as well. Big disappointment with all the plywood. Does anyone know of a service where I could send the plans and have the parts in the sheets laser cut out of solid stock.? 

[mojofilter]

jcasini - I would think that the 'plywood' would be more stable - less tendency to warp from humidity, temp, etc.  What species of solid stock would you use?

My Sergal kit seems to have nicely cut bulkheads - of course I haven't framed anything up yet so I don't know how they'll fair up.  We shall see.

[bonedoctor51]

See Longridge's book for all details.  It will make a huge difference.  I have been working on the older kit of this model for quite a number of years.  I will be posting some pictures today of the work in progress.  Lou

[EJ_L]

I understand the question of where to put a large model as that seems to be about the average size of most of mine. On the plus side, the large size will allow for lots of great detail work! Looking forward to sharing in this journey with you. Best of luck! 

[hof00]

Hi Chap,

On the Model, Lower masts are Fore: 10.0mm Main: 10.0mm Mizzen 8.0mm (Not Tapered.)

You will have to get Mast Caps Etc. Modified.

 

Cheers....HOF.

[bonedoctor51]

Thank you.  Much appreciated.   Lou

[mojofilter]

Hello all -

Well, it's been long enough since America was finished that mention of setting up the shipyard at the end of the dining room table again did not get me keelhauled by the Admiral.  I like working there but I need a way to move it away when the table is needed for actual dining.  I shall make a new table-top protector, felt on the bottom, that can be picked up from both sides and moved to a small trestle in the den.  My dining table is just wide enough to accommodate her 45" LOA.

 

I've been reviewing the Mantua plans (skimpy, inadequate, and in some places, just plain wrong), the C. Longridge books, the Campbell plans, and most importantly, the many MSW logs here.  It will be a challenge to weave all of this - many times conflicting - information into a decent build.  I will need your help!!

The Campbell plans are a frustration because they are obviously wonderful, however my set is almost, but not entirely, illegible.  They look to be copies of copies of copies . . .  These came from the museum store.  Is there any better source?

 

Following the new build table will be a keel fixture of some sort.  I've seen some interesting approaches here.  Anyone have a favorite for a hull this large?

Also considering balsa(?) blocks between bulkheads, at least at the stem and stern.  Thoughts?

 

- Tim

 

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by mojofilter

[mojofilter]

Since I will be relying on Longridge so much, and his build was 1:48, I made an Excel spreadsheet that converts his dimensions (always fractional) to the 1:78 of the Sergal/Mantua kit.

I'm looking for brass tube for the three lower masts (and bowsprit - same as mizzen) in 3/8 and 11/32 dia.  I used to be pretty good at silver soldering so this could be a clean way to outfit the lower masts.

I really like his idea of the set screw height adjuster at the step of the masts.  Could be the answer to saggy shroud syndrome.

All this fun and I haven't even opened the box yet - well, not much more than that.

 

- Tim

 

[bonedoctor51]

My internet connection is bad.  Did you get my last email?  BTW, I'm using 8 mm walnut for the mizzen lower mast and 10mm walnut for the fore and main lower masts.  My metal working skills are not as good as yours.   Lou

[mojofilter]

Thanks Lou - I did.

So I'll posts on our blogs - my progress on mine and questions to you on your's as your knowledge and techniques will benefit all.

Sounds like your masts will be very close to scale.

I haven't looked too hard for metric size brass tube - I should be able to find 8 & 10 mm.

Thanks,

 

- Tim

[mojofilter]

So, research has begun in earnest.

Rather than mark up my Longridge with the 1:48 to 1:78 conversions, I started a notebook for these, and also a paper log.

 

The new build-board is done.  I will apply posts spaced at mast locations for upside down work.

Longridge (and many of you) have a gammoning chain applied.  It looks like it is centered about 5mm forward of the end of the jib boom.  Any suggestions on exactly where (on this 1:78 Manoli kit)?

I plan to also install 10/32 X 1" threaded standoffs into the keel for eventual display mounts.  And I'm considering Longridge's set screws under the mast steps for final adjustment of shroud and stay tension.  Masts will be 3/8" brass tube for main and fore masts, 11/32 for mizzen mast and bowsprit.  I must say that the K&S Precision Metal tubing is perfect for nesting sizes.  the 0.3785 fits perfectly over the 0.3465 for rings about the bowsprit and mizzen mast.  The 0.408 fits perfectly over the 0.3785 for rings etc. over the main and fore mast.  I want to get everything milled on the keel before I fix the bulkheads.  I'm wondering if rabbeting a bearding line groove on the keel for the garboard strake and the strake ends is desirable and/or necessary?

 

- Tim

[hof00]

Hi Tim,

Just had a look at photos of my build, a couple here....

Hope this is of some help.

 

Cheers....HOF.

[mojofilter]

Thanks Hof - Looks like your gammoning chain is at (under) the end of the jib boom and forward.

Beautiful by the way!

 

- Tim

[hof00]

Thanks Chap,

My understanding was that the Gammoning is on the Bowsprit, Jib Boom does not have the Gammoning.

Maybe I'm wrong? (Far too late....) 

Nah.... Can't be wrong.

 

The only things that hold the Jib Boom on is the little Copper strip at the Aft end of things, the Bowsprit Cap and the Rigging. (Necessary if the Jib Boom ever breaks, God Forbid!!)

If you look at the Longridge book, the Aft Copper strip represents an Iron hinged Band, Hinged so that the Jib Boom could be "Un-Shipped" in Port if necessary.

 

The Aft end of the Gammoning Chain is butted up to the front of the Knighthead Bulkhead.

The Slot in the False Keel follows the angle, (Steve), of the Bowsprit, and yes, is probably about 5.0mm in front of the afore mentioned  front of the Knighthead Bulkhead.

 

Cheers....HOF.

Edited September 16, 2017 by hof00

[mojofilter]

Right Hof - I should have said "in relation to the jib boom end".  Longridge mentions a band or strap at the top of the bowsprit, going about the top quarter way round, that acts as a stop for the chain (to keep it from sliding down).  Longridge shows the bowsprit laying right on the false keel in this area.  The kit has the false keel dipping down forward of the knighthead.  All this butted against the knighthead as you say.  I will do the hinged jib boom band like yours.  My bowsprit will be 11/32" brass tube, so I will solder the band(s) to the bowsprit.

 

- Tim

[mojofilter]

So here is the slot for the Gammoning chain.  The chain seems the right scale.  It is silver plated brass which should go black with liver of sulfur. 

I used 10-32 X 1" threaded stand-offs epoxied into the keel.  These will be the final pedestal mounts, but should also come in handy for holding her in different positions during the build.

Now that all is done (?) to the keel while it's flat, on to the bulkheads.

[mojofilter]

I am at this point here - the sub-frame is glued in and all the bulkheads trued.

 

 

The sub-deck is just laid on for now.

My plan is to use brass sheet for the bulwarks.  I wasn't going to have any wood inside the bulwark under the main rail.  I am planning to solder up the stanchions per Longridge and solder them to the joining butt straps.  I don't know if I can pull off real rivets to attach them - if not I'll solder them.

I am considering gluing down the sub-deck, cutting off the bulwark risers, and then planking the deck up to the waterways.  Actually just short of them, and adding a margin board.  I intend to joggle the decking up to the fo'c'sle deck (up there too).  I will use 3mm maple deck planks per bonedoctor51's approach as I agree 2mm would be too busy.  I've read in at least one thread that planking is way easier before the bulwarks are in place, at least on the main deck.  Trying to decide if I need to put down a strake or two at and below the maindeck level first.

 

- T

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by mojofilter

[hamilton]

Wow! I wish I had room to build a model of this size....though technically I do have the Constitution which is about this size, so.....

 

This will be a very fun project to follow along with - and I'll be taking some crib notes for my future Flying Fish build! Have fun with this one Tim

hamilton

[Papa]

I love the jig for the bulkheads. You should do a short construction article on that alone!

[mojofilter]

Thanks ragrove - next time I have her off the jig I'll snap some pics.

Thanks Hamilton - I try to keep it fun, mainly by not thinking about the magnitude of this undertaking.

I've got a few pics here...

I'm gonna do the main deck first.  Gluing down - nobody breath . . .

As I mentioned I'm going to do the bulwarks in solid brass, simulating the 5' by 15' iron plates.  Don't quite know how to cut them out yet.

I've seen cross section drawings of the bulwarks where there is the bulwark itself, attached at the lower edge to an iron sheer strake.  I thought I'd just extend the brass down below the top of the timber strakes and attach the brass to the bulkheads.  I need help on how to treat the transition from the main deck bulwark, forward to the sides of the fore deck, and aft around the poop.  Pictures of the iron work in these areas would be nice.

m

Building some of the deck furniture so that I can miter around their base.  The aft deck house still needs some trim paint.

Still need to glue down the fore deck.  In spite of my efforts. it is still trying to curl up like a potato chip.  I need to figure out what the aft edge of the deck attaches to.

I think the main rail is supposed to run from the top of the lower bulwark, straight onto the fore deck and poop deck (??).

 

- Tim

 

[hamilton]

The deck house looks great Tim - are the side panels resin cast? Do they come as a single strip that you install behind the wooden framework? Or are they individual panels? 

hamilton

[hof00]

Hi Tim,

Some early pictures of my Cutty Build.

The Brass Bulwarks was part of the kit in an earlier edition to mine, so, had to purchase from Mantua.

Unsure why you are experiencing problems with the Fore Deck, have you tried "Pinning?"

Anyway, hope these help. (Plenty more if you so require.)

 

"Eat the Elephant one bite at a time!!"

 

Cheers....HOF.

Edited October 15, 2017 by hof00