Working with braided steel lines

[skipper1947]

I hope this is the correct forum about this. The Corel Corsaro II comes with 3 sizes of steel braided lines. I have not worked with this material before. It is "springy" and wants to spring back if you try to fold it back on itself (like to tie off the ends). Also it appears the ends might want to unravel if not careful. Then too, I am uncertain how well it will "purchase" on a spar (i.e. not slide). Does anybody have suggestions for working with this material while rigging the model?

 

Thanks.

[Mirabell61]

Hi Skipper,

 

if the lines are of steel or steel with galvanized tin coating there is no problem with paste-flux and soft-soldering the ends after you taped off the end. After soldering, just clip off the end with the masked tape, You`ll have a nice clean cut and the ends will not be unraveling. I`ve also  tried this with stainless steel line and special flux and appropriate special soft solder, but in vain, that did`nt give good results...

 

Nils

[skipper1947]

Thanks Nils. I am off to google "paste-flux" and "soft-soldering".

[grsjax]

Depending on what type of steel is used it may be possible to anneal the ends to make them less springy.  Use a propane torch and hold the wire with a set of pliers.  The pliers should be metal and fairly large to act as a heat sink to keep the annealing confined to the part you want to bend.

 

If you can't get the wire into a condition you want you might want to check out jewelry suppliers for braided wire that is less springy.  It comes in a large range of sizes in a couple of different braids (5 strand, 7 strand, 9 strand, etc).

[kurtvd19]

That looks like it is pretty stiff.  Jewelers wire comes in more flexible wires of similar diameter.  I have used quite a bit of the jeweler type wire along with connectors called CRIMPS.  The photo of the wire loop is 7 strand wire - diameter is .024".  The Crimp is a bit bigger (I.D.) than I would use but this is what was at hand.  A special pliers is used to do the crimping - not expensive but must be sized to the crimps. 

Kurt

[JerseyCity Frankie]

I'm skeptical braided wire rigging was employed on the actual ship and in fact I can't remember ever seeing anything thicker than picture hanging wire being braided.  Twisted steel wire rope is going to be more likely. In my opinion. I'm guessing the manufacturer of the model couldn't source stranded twisted wire in the proper diameters and substituted braided stuff. If it was me, I would twist up my own home-made stranded wire. It's ridiculously easy to make with any kind of drill. 

[jud]

Twisted wire rope is what I would expect to see aboard ship. Braided wire cable is used for flexibility and its ability to run over and through small pulleys and guides, Not used where strength is needed or for stationary applications, it stretches when being used and then shrinks back when the forces are relaxed. Both of my parallel drafting guides use braided cable but the cable on my windless on my Utility Vehicle is twisted wire rope as is on my Come Along's. You can long splice or short splice twisted wire rope and every ship I have been aboard had a splicing vise set up with the needed  hand tools for splicing wire rope. Have to agree with JerseyCity on this one.

 

[grsjax]

6 hours ago, JerseyCity Frankie said:

I'm skeptical braided wire rigging was employed on the actual ship and in fact I can't remember ever seeing anything thicker than picture hanging wire being braided.  Twisted steel wire rope is going to be more likely. In my opinion. I'm guessing the manufacturer of the model couldn't source stranded twisted wire in the proper diameters and substituted braided stuff. If it was me, I would twist up my own home-made stranded wire. It's ridiculously easy to make with any kind of drill. 

Making twisted wire rope isn't easy, even at small scales.  Takes a lot of tension to keep the twist tight.  A regular rope walk probably wouldn't be enough.

[JerseyCity Frankie]

It simply isn't true that "making twisted wire rope isn't easy" or that "it takes a lot of tension to keep the twist tight" and certainly a ROPE WALK is not used to make Scale steel wire rope. It's a one step operation using any kind of drill. Three strands of wire are simply twisted together all at once using a drill in one smooth operation that requires no special tensioning considerations or strength or crazy skills. It's REDICULOUSLY easy.

[skipper1947]

I have a confession to make. I am afraid I was too ignorant to know if I have "twisted" or "braided" wire. The word "braided" popped into my head while posting the question, so that is what I went with. The (*cough*) instructions, simply called it "steel wire"

 

[Srodbro]

Skipper1947 ... hope this reply isn't too much off topic, if so I apologize. 

 

Can anyone address how how to straighten braided or twisted steel wire?

 

Grsjax mentions the possibility of annealing the steel wire. I thought you could only anneal steel by very slowly cooling it after eating to bright red (not quenching, and not air cooling). To bend it I thought requires forming while red hot. ( at least, that is what I've experienced with "piano" wire) Not sure how to do that with braided steel. 

 

Thanks. 

[JerseyCity Frankie]

beyond the discussions of how to make wire, the original point you made was that the kit supplied wire was hard to work with and wouldn't bend easily. Regardless of weather or not it was braided or stranded, you shouldn't use it if it's going to prevent you from making very small eyes in the ends. You could even make the "wire" out of regular fiber thread or string then paint it a matalic color.

[grsjax]

4 hours ago, Srodbro said:

Skipper1947 ... hope this reply isn't too much off topic, if so I apologize. 

 

Can anyone address how how to straighten braided or twisted steel wire?

 

Grsjax mentions the possibility of annealing the steel wire. I thought you could only anneal steel by very slowly cooling it after eating to bright red (not quenching, and not air cooling). To bend it I thought requires forming while red hot. ( at least, that is what I've experienced with "piano" wire) Not sure how to do that with braided steel. 

 

Thanks. 

You might be right.  Just going with what I have observed.  When I heat a piece of steel and let it cool it bends easier.  Of course that might be highly dependent on type of steel and how hot I got it.  Didn't do any scientific experiments, just what I observed in practice.

[grsjax]

7 hours ago, JerseyCity Frankie said:

It simply isn't true that "making twisted wire rope isn't easy" or that "it takes a lot of tension to keep the twist tight" and certainly a ROPE WALK is not used to make Scale steel wire rope. It's a one step operation using any kind of drill. Three strands of wire are simply twisted together all at once using a drill in one smooth operation that requires no special tensioning considerations or strength or crazy skills. It's REDICULOUSLY easy.

When I attempted it to do it that way the twist was either to loose, or the twisted wire would kink.   Never could get wire rope that actually looked like the real thing.  BTW wire rope is usually made with more than 3 wires.  Common classifications are 7x7, 7x19, 6x26, 6x36 and 19x7 strands.  There are other configurations but these are most common.

[skipper1947]

Just FYI, the corsaro II called for using the smallest diameter wire for the hand rails (among other things). I found it pretty easy to work with (probably easier than the larger diameter). To secure it, I re-purposed some small brass sleeves from a previous model build, fed the end of the wire through them, then crimped them with needle nosed pliers. I added a drop of zap-a-gap for good measure, then clipped the excess off as close as I could with wire cutters. They seem pretty secure. 

 

I will likely look into this jewelers wire for the larger diameters (my wife is familiar with the topic). One advantage I can see with this instead of thread (assuming you can solve the other aspects of it's use), is that if used as a slack line, it would lie in a more natural curve than lose tied string. (hope that thought makes sense).

 

[grsjax]

Could you post a closeup picture of the wire?  I would like to see what kind of wire you are using.

Thanks

[skipper1947]

I hope these pictures are close up enough, I just have an iPad as a camera.

[grsjax]

That looks like twisted wire rope to me.

[jud]

Looks like Twisted Wire Cable, not Wire Rope or Braided Cable. With the right clamping and some good small tools you can make some small eyes without heat, I would try heat to determine if it ruined the wire as an experiment, if not, you have more options for working your wire. The most common self inflicted problem when working with cable or wire is to work too close to the end, leave plenty of handle, 'wire', and trim it back when done making the loop or connection you want. Sometimes using a piece of plain wire to hold a larger loop closed, 'frees your finger and clamps', than you wish to end up with, will allow you to work your way down to what you want, holding smaller loops with more wire as you go, when done remove the holding wires and trim your cable back to where it belongs. Sounds wasteful but you need to be able to get a hold of wire or cable to work with it. Good luck. When rigging cable often times you will find a loop on one end only and an adjusting device on the other such as a turn- buckle with a compression type  cable clamp on one end and a metal loop made up of 2 side by side hooks that allow them to be opened and placed on a staple, then closed forming a closed loop, that turn-buckle allows for adjustment, often lifelines have them on both ends or use a clevis on one end so the cable can quickly be removed, all inboard lifelines I have seen are made that way.

jud