HMS Victory new colours

[Paul Jarman]

Have you seen this small documentary on HMS Victory's Trafalgar colour scheme?  Anyone planning to repaint? I do love it when the experts suddenly find new info on all things ship wise and we modellers have to decide whether to change our build for realism.

Good luck to anyone deciding to repaint. For new Victory modellers you have the opportunity to paint her as she looked at Trafalgar.

 

 

[Eddie]

Hey howya goin Paul mate, great find mate. Looking at the yellow and the proper colour now I do like the proper colour better, before the yellow just looked to yellow to be the real colour for that time period. I was going to leave mine all natural wood, but now I might paint her, I'll have to think about this some more. 

[Jaxboat]

Excellent film. Thank you for sharing with us. I did not know that red lead was that brilliant. It will be interesting to see how she looks once the linseed oil "dries' (oxidizes). I would imagine they used turpentine for brushing consistency. I wonder if lead poisoning was an issue for the crew who painted her or the yard workers who mixed them. Today if you opened up a bag of red lead pigment to do paint grind you would probably be in a hazmat suit! BTW: you must grind (apply energy) to the pigment/ paint vehicle mix to wet and disaggregate the pigment particles into their smallest size. This optimizes hiding and stability. In water borne exterior house paint the pigment is ground in a water soluble resin know as a pigment dispersant. Once the "grind" is finished it is "let down" poured mixed into the primary waterborne polymer emulsion

paint vehicle.

Best

Jaxboat

[Telp]

Red lead itself was not as brilliant as the final finish, it was used as a part of the original finish as normally it is a dull colour mainly used in its own right as a primer of metal. Of course lead in paints is now as such banned in the UK so i'd be interested to know what they have used as a substitute. The linseed oil gave the gloss sheen but that is a great red for sure. Nice video, and when I get round to building my Victory I will certainly use the new colours.

[Paul Jarman]

Glad I could help. If I was going to build the Victory again I would paint her in the new colours. I know what you mean Eddie, the yellow ochre is very bright. I have used it on my model and it does stand out.

Sorry for the size of the link I pressed submit before pressing the set as link button. I have tried to edit it but can't. If one of the moderators can alter it to a link instead of the way it is feel free to.

Paul

 

[Jaxboat]

Hi Telp,

I was in the US Navy when they still used red lead primers and I agree with you. They were a dull red color similar to Red Ochre. Certainly they were not the eye-popping red on the video. RE: Ochre Pigments: they can go from black to red to brown to yellow. They are all  oxides of iron. The color is made by changing the oxygen level in a furnace as well as the moisture content.

[Jörgen]

Does these new colours aply to other English ships at that era or only victory?

 

[Telp]

I was wondering the same Jorgen, if Victory's colours were specialist to Victory herslf or the colour scheme was associated with the other 33 ships at Trafalger.

 

I want to have a go at HMS Agmemnon one day so I would be interested to know, I might send an email to the victory restoration team.

 

Just to say also... if anyone has the caldercraft HM Brig Supply model, have a look at the colour of the box around the edges, it is actually very much like the colour they are now repainting victory with.

[uss frolick]

Log of Victory, May 3, 1805:

 

"Dismissed ye carpenter, Jonathan Grey, who had, before having been discovered by the doctor to be completely colour-blind, ordered the ship's sides painted a light pink while the Capt. was away. He had thought it was instead the normal tan-ochre. We cruise against the French tonight without chance of repainting. Landsman Grey sentenced to receive 50 lashes."

[Paul Jarman]

4 hours ago, Passer said:

Does these new colours aply to other English ships at that era or only victory?

 

I had the same thoughts. It could apply to quite a few ships of that time. I would think it would apply to HMS Agamemnon as well.

Paul

[mtaylor]

5 hours ago, Passer said:

Does these new colours aply to other English ships at that era or only victory?

 

 If the pigments came from different locations then, for example, there might be a difference between red ochres.  Also the person who missed could influence the color.  But generally speaking, they should be close.

[uss frolick]

I'm surprised that there was any surviving, original hull planking above Victory's waterline to get a sample. These ships replaced nearly everything above water every few decades. Nothing above the Constitution's waterline is original. Only her keel, deadwood, floors, and first and second futtocks, and a few other lower chunks, are thought to date back to 1812. The key is that they rebuild the timbers just the way they found them, keeping what the academes call their historical "provenance". 

[DarkAngel]

On 5/1/2017 at 7:49 AM, uss frolick said:

Log of Victory, May 3, 1805:

 

"Dismissed ye carpenter, Jonathan Grey, who had, before having been discovered by the doctor to be completely colour-blind, ordered the ship's sides painted a light pink while the Capt. was away. He had thought it was instead the normal tan-ochre. We cruise against the French tonight without chance of repainting. Landsman Grey sentenced to receive 50 lashes."

I wonder if anyone will flog the scientists for getting it wrong, or whomever decided to go ahead with that 'pink' colour scheme 

 

Nelson would be turning over in his grave I can imagine to see that mistake immortalized and encouraged with ship modelers for years to come.

Edited June 13, 2019 by DarkAngel