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Help with an article in Model Shipwright Magazine


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Hi all,

 

Looking for help in obtaining parts 5 & 6 of David White's "Understanding Ships Drafts'  from Model ShipWright Magazine way back when. Unable to locate any copies of either these last 2 parts or the magazine itself, which is issue 54 and the one after that. Any help would be appreciated. pdf's or paper are fine. Thx in advance.

 

Dan

 

Edited by dak4482
misnamed reference
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  • 2 years later...

Hi everyone,

 

I realize this is a few years old, but would anyone still have a copy of parts 5 & 6 of David White's "Understanding Ships Drafts" from Model ShipWright Magazine? I really wish they would republish the old ones, maybe as a digital collection. Someone also mentioned that David White wrote a series of articles about shipbuilding but I can't find anything about them.

 

Thanks,

John Gray

Edited by JohnMGray
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Uhhh John.....  unless you like getting offers from African "princes" to collect lost bank accounts, if you just pony up earnest  money or boner pill ads,  you should maybe edit your email address out of your post, before the web crawlers find it.   And you might want to establish a credible presence here before asking someone to supply you with a copy of copyrighted literature. 

 

I can't get that publisher to reply to an offer to buy plans used in Rif Winfield's books.  The way they botched the Model Shipwright franchise, I doubt that they have the slightest clue about the value of what they have, so I would not bet on their being a reprint.  It is like some suit has a grudge against the now retired editor, but they still own it.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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Plenty of copies of both of those editions on ebay.

Current Build(s):

  • H.M.S Diana 1794 - Caldercraft 1:64 Scale

 

Completed Builds:

 

 

 

 

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Your biggest problem is finding what was in each volume. I created an index but even this is only what was of interest to me and for the volumes I have. Model shipwright created a separate index with its one hundredth issue but it wasn't completely correct.

 

I think the below is the traditional shipbuilding you want but I will have to get one out to double check the Author.

 

 Capture.thumb.PNG.d9be1ee89bb2a8109c1fb254ec03e8e5.PNG

For confusion's sake, early editions were in volumes and then changed to just number. You want the editions listed under number.

 

Current Build(s):

  • H.M.S Diana 1794 - Caldercraft 1:64 Scale

 

Completed Builds:

 

 

 

 

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John

 

The piece on Understanding Ships' Draughts was split into six articles in issues 46, 48, 50, 52, 54 & 58. David White also wrote a series of nine articles on Traditional Wooden Shipbuilding in issues 47, 49, 51, 53, 55, 57, 59, 61 & 63.

Plus lots of others on topics as diverse as load lines and boat davits.

 

Busy man!

 

Unfortunately I can't copy these articles. Leaving aside copyright issues, the magazines have stiff covers and I can't lay them flat without breaking the spines. However, as Thunder says Model Shipwright copies regularly appear on ebay. I didn't start subscribing until about 2000, but a few years ago I was able to get all the back copies in relatively short order without breaking the bank. 

 

Derek

Cheers, Derek

 

Current build:   Duchess of Kingston

On hold:              HMS Winchelsea

 

Previous builds:  HMS SpeedyEnglish Pinnace, Royal Yacht Caroline (gallery),

                            Victory Cross-section (gallery), US Clipper Albatros, Red Dragon (years ago!)

 

On the stocks:    18th Century Longboat

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Thanks Derek.  I'll keep checking but the most likely source from what I've found so far is the combined volumes from UK booksellers. Unfortunately I'll have to wait until the virus bans are lifted to be able to get them shipped to the USA. I'm still waiting on a special publication from the Society for Nautical Research I ordered from Switzerland.  It arrived in this country on April 9th and I haven't received it yet, and I'm on the east coast.

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22 hours ago, JohnMGray said:

Hi everyone,

 

I realize this is a few years old, but would anyone still have a copy of parts 5 & 6 of David White's "Understanding Ships Drafts" from Model ShipWright Magazine? I really wish they would republish the old ones, maybe as a digital collection. Someone also mentioned that David White wrote a series of articles about shipbuilding but I can't find anything about them.

 

Thanks,

John Gray

 

Will this help?  It was put into the Articles area some years ago but it's not David White's.  Look at the second article: http://modelshipworldforum.com/ship-model-plans-and-research.php

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans                             Triton Cross-Section   

                                                                                                                       USS Constellaton (kit bashed to 1854 Sloop of War  _(Gallery) Build Log

                                                                                Wasa (Gallery)

                                                                                                                        HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Thanks Mark, 

I've seen those. I've been doing a study and comparison of late 16th century through mid 19th century British and American ship design and building. I've been going through period manuscripts and monographs including sources from the likes of Baker (Fragments of Ancient English Shipwrightry), MSS Add. 4005 Part 12 (A Manuscript on Shipbuilding, Circa 1600, Copied by Newton), Bushnell, Sutherland, Deane, Murray, and Steel, just to name a few. I'm starting to translate some of their works into CAD (Rhino 6). As I go along I've been finding other modern papers on early wooden ship design and building, such as White, and have been just checking their interpretation and presentation. As I translate the early works to CAD I may end up documenting step by step instructions and releasing them to enthusiasts. If so, I hope to include the rules and methods of each early shipwright / era so people will understand both how and why. From there it's not too difficult (just time consuming) to translate the 2D plans to 3d with parametric CAD, and to fully frame and plank a ship. Then they'll have everything they need to build a wooden model if they choose.

John

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I used Richard Barker's title when he published it in the Mariner's Mirror in 1994. It's also believed to be a copy of at least one or two earlier works so it's difficult to determine an original date for the information. It's similar to "A Treatise on Shipbuilding, c. 1620" published by the Society for Nautical Research in 1958 by Dr. RC Anderson which also appears to be a copy of an earlier work, and which happens to be just one part of "MS 9; Orders and Instructions of the Duke of York, 1660" from the Admiralty Library. Both of them show an influence by Mathew Baker "Fragments of Ancient English Shipwrightry", who's own works were added to after his death. At the moment I'm working on a spreadsheet comparing the descriptions, methods and calculations of each of them, along with Deane's. I may also add William Baker's calculations and measurements of his new Mayflower as he studied the early works for his design.

 

[edit] Also consider that parts of the Newton manuscript are almost word for word copies of the Scott manuscript (old RINA 798 which has been sold to a private collector), and that the other parts, although not word for word, closely agree. John Coates tentatively dated the Scott manuscript to 1590-1605. I wouldn't be surprised if both the "Newton" original sources (besides the Scott manuscript) and the "MS 9" original source also date from that time period.

Edited by JohnMGray
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi John.

 

I have a full set of these and could scan the articles and email them if any good to you.

 

If you PM me your email address and give me a few days to organise, I can get them over.

 

Regards

 

Noel

Finished builds are 

1/35 Endeavour's Longboat by Artesania Latina

1/36 scratch built Philadelphia Gunboat from the Smithsonian Plans

 

Current build is

Scratch build Boudroit's Monograph for La Jacinthe at 1/36

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Good Evening John;

 

David White's series of articles are well illustrated, and very informative. However, if your period of interest is the 17th century, most of what he wrote will be of no specific help to you, as he concentrated mostly on shipbuilding in the second half of the 18th century. Earlier periods are not much covered, and techniques then were very different. His articles will certainly help you to understand a draught, though, which is useful. Rather unfortunately, the series of articles was never completed, either. 

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

Previously built models (long ago, aged 18-25ish) POB construction. 32 gun frigate, scratch-built sailing model, Underhill plans.

2 masted topsail schooner, Underhill plans.

 

Started at around that time, but unfinished: 74 gun ship 'Bellona' NMM plans. POB 

 

On the drawing board: POF model of Royal Caroline 1749, part-planked with interior details. My own plans, based on Admiralty draughts and archival research.

 

Always on the go: Research into Royal Navy sailing warship design, construction and use, from Tudor times to 1790. 

 

Member of NRG, SNR, NRS, SMS

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