odd lateen yard rigging

[marktiedens]

Hi everyone - I am to the rigging stage of a Spanish Galleon of 1750.  While going over the rigging diagrams I came across this picture in the instructions of the lateen yard lift at the aft end.  It looks a little odd to me,and I am having a hard time figuring out how to do this without some of the lines distorting or sagging & looking terrible.  Every other lateen yard I have seen use a  crowsfeet arrangement.  Has anyone ever seen this before???  As you can see from the picture,their example looks pretty sloppy.

 

 

Mark

[allanyed]

I may be going out on a limb, but I think you are correct, there is no such rigging as shown in the photo.  Crow's feet of various designs were used in this area on many nationalities' ships.   I have not seen any description (so far) of rigging as shown in the photo you posted in Lees, Anderson, or other credible sources.  The crow's feet came in a variety of designs from simple to complex.  The sketch below I THINK is more typical than that shown in the photo. Where the photo shows knots, there would be blocks, and where the photo shows a single block, there likely would be a long block. 

Is this model a kit of the Gallicia or some other vessel?  

 

Allan

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by allanyed

[JerseyCity Frankie]

 I’m with Allan above, the complex series of spans with blocks on them are what I find familiar (if silly) on older ships with lateen yards.  seized intersections like net? Never seen that before, except on net.

it strikes me as very odd that the kit manufacturer could get this detail wrong but you have not identified the kit, the manufacturer or the scale.  I can imagine a circumstance, if the model is smaller in size,  where the kit manufacturer was unable to source blocks small enough to fulfill the need on this bit of gear on their kit, so instead opts for knots in place of blocks for their representation. Just a guess.

[Jim Rogers]

Here is a photo of lateen rigging on my Golden Hind.

[druxey]

The kit is just trying to give the impression that Allan's posting shows. The 'netting' in the photo is not it! 

[marktiedens]

Hey guys,thanks for your response!  This is an OcCre kit of the Nuestra Senora - scale 1/46(supposedly). I couldn`t see how that netting would work on a real ship either. As many of you know,OcCre is not known for historical accuracy. I will continue on with a" normal" crowsfeet arrangement similar to what Allan posted. There are a number of other inaccuracies,but if I wanted to correct all of them it would turn into a total scratch build (the plans are not even good enough for that).  Info on Spanish ships seems to be somewhat sparse,so I am trying to just fix the obvious errors.

 

Mark

[Roger Pellett]

Mark,

 

I am not suggesting that you rebuild your model! I am posting this for builders like you that may be looking for accurate information on Sixteenth Century Spanish ships. For some time I have been collecting information on the subject.

 

First is “The Underwater Archeology of Red Bay” published by Parks Canada.  This five volume set describes the mid-Sixteenth Century Galleon San Juan crushed in the ice in Labrador.  The entire ship, originally built by Basque shipwrights, was disassembled, each part recorded, and a 1:10 scale model built.  This report is a great book buying bargain.  It’s five volumes that take up about a foot on by book shelf cost about $60.00.

 

Another useful resource is “Vanguard of Empire” by Roger C. Smith it is aimed at late Fifteenth/ early Sixteenth Iberian built vessels.

 

A well done book about Galleons of the Armada era is Peter Kirsch’s “Galleon”.  In this book, the author uses primary source material to reconstruct an Armada period Galleon.  The Red Bay Archeologists considered this book to be sufficiently authorative to use it in their work.

 

I recently received “Six Galleons for for the King of Spain”  by Carla Rahn Phillips.  The author, a Professor of European History at the University of Minnesota uses archival material to discuss the 1625  procurement, construction, and life of six Spanish Galleons.  Not a modeling book per-se but lots of interesting background information.

 

By looking up Parks Canada Research Reports on the Internet I found a preliminary report on the Red Bay Galleon.  This led me to a number of reports on other Iberian wrecks that have been investigated by archeologists.

 

I hope that forum participants wanting to build a Spanish Galleon from a kit or from scratch will find this useful.

 

Roger

 

 

 

 

[Bob Cleek]

The "netting" in the photo above is a good example of what is often encountered in kits: rigging that doesn't work. When examining it, "think like a sailor." What conceivable mechanical purpose could such a thing ever serve. At the end of the day, a single peak halyard would serve as well. There is no way to support weight distributed across the length of the spar from a single halyard unless there are blocks there which equalize the strain on the spar. It's obvious that people who draw plans like the one described know nothing about their subject, save perhaps their inaccurately copying a picture they saw in a book somewhere. Your "good eye" and common sense spotted this one straightaway.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Bob Cleek

[marktiedens]

Roger - Thanks very much for the info. I must admit I am not very good at doing lots of research. This is a Manila galleon supposedly built in the Philippines. My half-hearted search did come up with general info like tonnage ,number of guns & the like,plus one small blurry picture of a painting supposedly of this ship.  I am well too far along for any more re-do`s ( already did a bunch of modifications),so I will just continue on. This kit is more or less crap,so I`m just trying to get it done & move on to something better.

 

Bob - your post is spot on - thank you!  this kit was purchased before I knew there was a forum like this. Had I known which were the "bad"kits & which were the"good" kits I would never have wasted my money on this one!

 

Mark

[thibaultron]

I have the Red Bay books, and can also recommend them!