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Gunport framing and planking question


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I’m at the stage in my La Renommee build where I need to think about the gunports.  I’ve completed the first planking, and will add not only a outside hull planking but an inner hull/bulwark planking as well.

 

The question I had was on how the inner hull planking lines up with the port stops.  TFFM says that the upper edge of the spirketting lines up at the same level as the tops of the lower sill stops, and that the quickwork is flush to the inner sides of the stops at the sides of the port.  Zu Mondfeld’s picture doesn’t show the quickwork, but suggests the upper edge of the spirketting lines up with the bottom edge of the lower sill stop.

 

I’m assuming TFFM is correct, so was thinking my construction sequence would be as follows:

 

1.  Cut out gunports with an extra 3-4mm or so per side to account for gunport frames with sills using 1.5-2mm material. 

 

2.  Add the gunport frames, and sand them back to contours of outer and inner hull curvature so they line up flush on both sides of the first planking.

 

3.  For the inner hull planking, run the planks so that the sills are overlapped (planking runs to edge of inner edge of sills).

 

4.  For the outer hull planking, run the planks so they only slightly overlap the port frames to end up with the port sills equal to that on the plans.

 

Does this seem like a reasonable approach?  If zu Mondfeld was correct, I would probably change things be planking the inner hull planking first, then cut out the gunports, then finish with the outer hull planking.  I’m hoping TFFM is correct because I think the construction process will be a lot easier and cleaner in the end.

 

Thank you in advance for any advice.  Merry Christmas and Happy 2019 to all my friends on here!

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Mike,

I daresay (and I'm someone will correct me) that TFFM will not help much as your ship is a) French and b) from an earlier period. Not all French frigates did have did have fixed (hinged) port lids.  I've looked through ANCRE's History of the French Frigate 1650-1850 and there is a section on the La Renommee.  I appears that there there were no hinged lids and that the lining only at the top and bottom of each port and covered by the inner and outer hull planking thus, no port stops.  The planking at the sides would be flush with the port opening and the sides of the port are the framing.  I'd like to think I got it right on Licorne but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Then again, maybe I misunderstood the question..... 

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Thanks guys, really appreciate the help.  So, I'm still not quite convinced that the ship represented by the kit is French (I have an extensive discussion about this on my build log).  It clearly is taken from Chapman's Architectura (Plates 31 and 32), but there has been some research that Admiral Paris in his book miswrote a description and mistakenly ascribed the Chapman drawings to the French ship La Renommee.  It clearly is a different ship from the one in the Ancre monograph (the dates also don't line up).  My guess (and others as well, including zu Mondfeld) is that it is a Swedish ship as it shares many of the same design elements as Chapman's Venus:

 

Swedish_frigate_Venus_(1783)-schematics.jpg.742386dfdce2b975a69ebe82de0dbdea.jpg

 

1373533156_Venuspainting.jpg.da3f3616aaf4d3d6737f3a3e03851106.jpg

 

Looking at the Venus, there are gunport lids.  The kit plans show gunport lids, and I took a look at a number of other builders of the Euromodel kit (or builders off its plans), and every one includes lids except for the one from Kenji Nakajima interestingly:

 

https://www.euromodel-ship.com/eng/la-renommee-2.html

 

 Not sure if this is dispositive, but Chapman plate 32 shows the bridle ports with closed lids - does that mean if the bridle ports had lids, the rest of the gunport did as well?

 

2035389179_ChapmanDrawing.thumb.jpeg.1ecd801b0c59b16960a0b90b34fcbe08.jpeg

 

So, I'm not exactly sure what to do.  I'm leanings towards adding lids I suppose given that Chapman's Venus plans clearly show lids.  If a ship did have lids, I imagine there would need to be a sill?

 

 

 

Edited by Landlubber Mike
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The bridle port lids is/was what many (but not all) of the French 8 and 12 pounder frigates had even if the rest of the ports did not.  Licorne (8 pounder) didn't, but other 8 pounders did.  Belle Poule did have the bridle port lid only.

 

France didn't really build like the Brits did in that there was more than one (for lack of a better word) designer.  Plus they were constantly testing, modifying and reworking ships.  For example, Licorne doesn't have the masting (sizes of the masts and yards) of most 8 pounders.  It has the masting/yards dimension of La Venus, an 18 pounder of 1782.  Apparently, the masting change came during Licorne's rebuild or there after.   The Brits were more uniform in their building methods such that except for minor changes (mostly although some were much different) all the ships of a given class followed the lead ship in furniture, rigging, etc.  

 

If what you're saying is true about the mixup in plans, then go with the kit.  Nothing really lost there. The problem with older company's kits is the lack of research and marketing pressures at the time.  We know that AL's Constellation isn't the Revolutionary War ship that they advertise but the hull dimensions are the from 1855 sloop.  The guns, etc. were from the fiction when the ship was moved and fitted out as the museum ship in Baltimore.

 

Go with what you think is best.  If you decide to keep it as the kit, that works.  If you feel ambitious, figure out which one it actually is and build it as that ship.  You're the captain here. Go with what you feel good about.   

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Thanks guys.  So assuming I go with the lids, is it more correct to go the TFFM way of planking the inner hull (where the planking covers the edges of the port sills) or zu Mondfeld?  The cleanest I think would be the TFFM way, so that's what I was planning but open to doing it differently if there's a more correct way.

 

Reason why I'm asking is that under the TFFM way, I'd line the gunport now after the first planking.  Under zu Mondfeld, I'd have to run the second inner hull planking, then cut the gunport.

 

Thanks!

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