NovaStorm Posted June 26, 2020 Share #91 Posted June 26, 2020 Looks great from here Justin P., Overworked724 and niwotwill 3 Quote ... I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier The last of Barrett's Privateers ~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niwotwill Posted June 26, 2020 Share #92 Posted June 26, 2020 The batten line looks very nice and my Syren has the same upturn in the bow so no worries. Sllow but steady is the correct coarse to take ship modeling in not a race. Your point a great job. Will Justin P. and Overworked724 2 Quote Current Build: Erycina 1882 Fishing Trawler by Vanguard Models 1:64 scale Syren by pearwill Model Shipways 1:64 scale On Hold: HM Cutter Cheerful Syren Shipmodel Scratch 1:48 scale 1776 Washington Row Galley scratch scratch from NRG plans #121 1:48 scale Completed Build: Charles W. Morgan by Artesania Latina circa 1988, Lowell Grand Banks Dory 1:24 scale by Model Shipways, Norwegian.Sailing Pram 1:12 scale by Model Shipways, Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack 1:24 scale by Model Shipways Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share #93 Posted June 29, 2020 A bit of weekend-rainy day progress. After getting my top row of wales in (using Alaskan cedar), my intention was to focus on the exterior bulkhead planking. Rather than alternating port/starboard in a row by row fashion, I found myself pursued by the Muse of Completion and simply could not stop once I started the port side. Frankly, Since the bulkhead framing is so stable and supported, I'm not sure that the ship will be pulled out of alignment by completely planking only one side of the bulkhead at one time. If I screw up my model, I'll consider it a valuable lesson learned! In the meantime, I was more focused on trying to determine if my seventh row of planks was in jeopardy due to the 'upsweep' I saw when placing the wales in the bow section. Short answer is 'Yes'. I'll get to that... I decided since I had such accurately cut planks, to treat each section between the ports as a separate section...and trust in the Good Lord that my accuracy in cutting my planks was as good as I had hoped. So I started with the initial plank with required the 'sill' cut outs for the ports... Progressed to the easier 'between port' sections.... And found myself cutting out the 'lintels' in the top plank of the ports (6th plank above the wales)...only to see that the bulkhead framing near the bow was a too short for secure placement of the seventh plank...by about 2mm or so...roughly the height of that marginal upsweep I had posted a concern over in my past entry. So, I decided to glue an 'extender' plank in the inside of the 6th plank to offer some gluing surface area before fiddling with the seventh plank. I can easily remove this later if needed...but I've learned surface area is everything when glueing...and I'm still a beginner! I need as much help as I can get... This actually worked very well. The seventh plank slid on with no issue and seems the overall layout seems to be pretty close to the plans. It's also much more sturdy - you can feel it. Sanding the interior won't seem like such a horrendously sensitive task now (but I'll still be very careful). There is some sanding to be done in the bow. The planks tended to relaxed a bit... But luckily my cedar plank strips are slightly wider than 1/18"...by a nanometer or two! The unevenness in the bow will be addressed by sanding very easily, but I'll wait until I've done with the starboard bulkhead planking and placed the other two wale strips before I start mucking about with sanding. There is a LOT of sanding still in my future - and why rush it. One nice thing to note...I am really enjoying working with the cedar wood. This is my first time using a wood other than basswood and I can truly understand now why modelers don't prefer basswood. The cedar has a tighter grain, and leaves a much cleaner cut, and does not get all 'thready'. I've already decided that I prefer the yellowish color. So I'll be a bit different and leave the natural wood color....so I'll stain with Minwax Natural stain and follow it up with tung oil...when I get to that point. I will redo my 'faux' deck using cedar to match the main deck. I'll be using toothpicks for trunnels. Moving on...to the starboard side...and praying that the work and plank alignment will match!!! GrandpaPhil, NovaStorm, Keith z and 2 others 5 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalrusGuy Posted June 29, 2020 Share #94 Posted June 29, 2020 Those are some smooth and crisp lines... Looking fantastic! I'm definitely putting that wood in my wishlist now.. How did you cut the straight lines for the port sills and lintels? I had to use a needle file for mine because of how the basswood kept cracking from using a hobby knife, but I guess this isn't the case for cedar. Again, I am really loving this look!!! Also, just thinking out loud, how would cedar planking would look with pear decking 🤔? Overworked724 1 Quote Current: USF Confederacy - Model Shipways (Build Log) HMS Pickle - Caldercraft (Build Log) Complete: Virgina 1819 - Artesania Latina (Gallery) U.S. Brig Syren - Model Shipways (Build Log, Gallery) On the shelf: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share #95 Posted June 29, 2020 It's actually much easier with cedar. I'll send some pics in another post. But I tried this is basswood and it is simply too soft and it falls apart. With cedar...it's easy. More to follow. WalrusGuy and Ryland Craze 2 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share #96 Posted June 29, 2020 22 minutes ago, WalrusGuy said: Also, just thinking out loud, how would cedar planking would look with pear decking 🤔? By the way...I think it would look beautiful! Justin P. and WalrusGuy 2 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share #97 Posted June 29, 2020 1 hour ago, WalrusGuy said: How did you cut the straight lines for the port sills and lintels? I had to use a needle file for mine because of how the basswood kept cracking from using a hobby knife, but I guess this isn't the case for cedar. Here is how I carved my planks. Guessing it’s similar to others, but the cedar made all the difference. Tools include a triangular (not square) micro file. Mark where you want the gap Mark how deep you want the gap to be Use a straight razor to etch the wood up to (but not past) the point of depth. I went slightly less than the required depth. Got good results. Use a #11 to chip out the meat. I use a block to set the plank on to ensure the blade is square with the surface of the cutting edge. Do one side of the meat then the other. I use a 220 grit sanding stick (popsicle stick) to take out the roughness. Use the triangular file for the corners and the trim up the vertical edges. That might be a novice way of doing it. But it works for me. The wood makes all the difference. Try this with basswood and you are in for a world of frustration. It’s just too brittle and soft. The cedar really holds an edge. 👍🏽 GrandpaPhil, NovaStorm, Ron Burns and 6 others 9 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalrusGuy Posted June 29, 2020 Share #98 Posted June 29, 2020 Thanks!! I'll follow these steps for my next potential model. Overworked724 and Justin P. 2 Quote Current: USF Confederacy - Model Shipways (Build Log) HMS Pickle - Caldercraft (Build Log) Complete: Virgina 1819 - Artesania Latina (Gallery) U.S. Brig Syren - Model Shipways (Build Log, Gallery) On the shelf: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niwotwill Posted June 29, 2020 Share #99 Posted June 29, 2020 Yes the cedar cuts much easer than the basswood as we can see in you photos showing your excellent craftsmanship. The plank spacing is amazingly straight. I think the cedar edges really help with plank to plank fitting. Really looking good your doing wonderful work. Stay well Will Overworked724, Ryland Craze and WalrusGuy 3 Quote Current Build: Erycina 1882 Fishing Trawler by Vanguard Models 1:64 scale Syren by pearwill Model Shipways 1:64 scale On Hold: HM Cutter Cheerful Syren Shipmodel Scratch 1:48 scale 1776 Washington Row Galley scratch scratch from NRG plans #121 1:48 scale Completed Build: Charles W. Morgan by Artesania Latina circa 1988, Lowell Grand Banks Dory 1:24 scale by Model Shipways, Norwegian.Sailing Pram 1:12 scale by Model Shipways, Muscongus Bay Lobster Smack 1:24 scale by Model Shipways Member Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted June 29, 2020 Author Share #100 Posted June 29, 2020 12 hours ago, WalrusGuy said: Those are some smooth and crisp lines... Looking fantastic! I'm definitely putting that wood in my wishlist now.. Again, I am really loving this look!!! By the way...coming from you ... I take this as a great compliment!!! Your Syren is beautiful! Justin P., WalrusGuy and abelson 3 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share #101 Posted July 2, 2020 Last night tragedy struck my Syren. I'm typing this in so that folks know that these things simply happen. Live and learn. I was working on the starboard side bulkhead planking when I noticed the top of the stem was slightly askew. Upon closer look, the top of the stem was detaching from the rabbet. I think my problem was using that PVA glue which turns translucent upon drying (Titebond translucent wood glue) instead of normal carpenters wood glue when attaching the rabbet strip and stem/keel. I noticed some slight glue residue along the seams of the rabbet after my discovery and noticed that is was not solid but a 'gummy' type of residue. Great... What I think happened was that some of the planks at the bow still retained some slight 'curvature' and when pressed into the rabbet was applying slight lateral pressure on the stem due to the wood strip want to retain it's original shape...add that minor force over multiple planks and you get a lot of torque pushing the stem 'away' from the bow. ... which is what was happening. No pics here because I'm a bit pissed at myself. I simply reinforced the stem with additional spot glue and clamped it to kingdom come. I am also ensuring to use my heated plank bender to ensure the remaining planks have no curvature which might put additional strain on the stem. It all looks ok as of my writing this...but aside from tearing the whole bloody thing apart to fix a problem I can only guess...so, I'll be pressing on. I decided to take a break from planking and revisit my intention to use toothpicks for treenails. I used them on the Sultana and made them by pushing the toothpick through a draw plate. Tedious, irritating, and tiring. I do not want to revisit that process. Chuck's method of using filler does offer a good alternative. However, I like using wood, and the stain really makes the treenails pop out. So, I looked along the forums and found a good process for treenails using a needle and a drill press. You can use pretty much any needle size. I used a medium gauge needle - used my Dremel disc sander to bevel both sides of the needle to create the 'coring shaft'. Placed it in my drill press with above a 1/4" wood strip (ensure the wood grain is vertical to the ground...so you are creating the nail 'cores' with the grain). Make sure you don't punch all the way through - leave some wood for the core to remain 'attached' inside the wood block. This way the core maker won't get jammed. I tried using both basswood and cedar. Both worked well. Then I just used a sanding stick to take off the wood 'backing'. Then I used a pin (the tip was squared off with the sander so it would not damage the end of the nails) to push the nails out the other side of the block into a container. It's amazing how easy this was...it took me 5 min to make each pre-punched wood block, about 2-3 min to sand down the opposite side and expose the cored out nails, then 2-3 minutes to push the nails out! Making the needle 'punch' takes all of 30 seconds. (I made 100 each of the basswood and cedar) I can only imagine how many hours of tree nail making I could have saved on my Sultana if I had done it this way. I won't take credit...I saw this posted by another member but can't find his name. I've already identified the drill bit size and will make more when I'm ready. Off to bed...no more planking for today. Moving on...but quite irritated with the wood glue. GrandpaPhil, WalrusGuy, NovaStorm and 3 others 6 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaStorm Posted July 2, 2020 Share #102 Posted July 2, 2020 I have a friend who makes his treenails this way. It is a really good way to do it. Nice work if I had a drill press I would be doing it this way over toothpics too. WalrusGuy and Overworked724 2 Quote ... I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier The last of Barrett's Privateers ~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share #103 Posted July 2, 2020 36 minutes ago, NovaStorm said: I have a friend who makes his treenails this way. It is a really good way to do it. Nice work if I had a drill press I would be doing it this way over toothpics too. The x-y table is the key. Clamping the wood and simply rotating a knob a full turn between punches makes the prep work very quick. I’ll use my table saw rather than sanding next time to give me cleaner edges. Also wanted to try with a smaller needle. WalrusGuy 1 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaStorm Posted July 2, 2020 Share #104 Posted July 2, 2020 Patrick thanks for the advice If I get a drill press I will be sure to include the table. Overworked724 1 Quote ... I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier The last of Barrett's Privateers ~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 2, 2020 Author Share #105 Posted July 2, 2020 56 minutes ago, NovaStorm said: Patrick thanks for the advice If I get a drill press I will be sure to include the table. Robin, your build is inspiring me. Not sure what my advice means! I’m very much a novice! 🤣 WalrusGuy 1 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaStorm Posted July 3, 2020 Share #106 Posted July 3, 2020 Aren't we both. I can't wait to see your results with the woods you are using Patrick. Half the fun is getting away from the generic kit parts and making it on your terms. This is only my second build to my friend, so I am getting just as much inspiration from your way Overworked724 and WalrusGuy 2 Quote ... I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier The last of Barrett's Privateers ~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 3, 2020 Author Share #107 Posted July 3, 2020 Just FYI that my mini drill press and x-y table/clamp assembly I got from micro mark. It was very reasonable. I’m sure the Proxon model is similar and gives the same results. I use mine all the time. 😊 NovaStorm and Ryland Craze 2 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share #108 Posted July 5, 2020 Happy 4th! Took some time to continue planking the Starboard side bulkheads. Not as clean as the port side but hoping sanding will level out some of the rough spots. Pics on this later. Created another nail punch using a smaller gauge needle. Worked well. The new nails fit a #76 drill hole. Meaning I can get 2 tree nails into one plank without it looking too oversized. Although I’m sure it is still over sized!!!! The tree nails on the bottom are a better choice I think. Decision made. 👍🏽 Moving on!!! JpR62, NovaStorm, Ryland Craze and 3 others 6 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaStorm Posted July 5, 2020 Share #109 Posted July 5, 2020 Great job Patrick, those bottom nails look perfect! Gotta say you are some ambitious using two per plank, cant wait to see the results. WalrusGuy and Overworked724 2 Quote ... I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier The last of Barrett's Privateers ~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share #110 Posted July 5, 2020 Well...that’s the goal! 😁 We shall see if I keep up my internal promise! NovaStorm 1 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share #111 Posted July 6, 2020 My fourth of July update...was able to overcome my irritation at the stem nearly popping off, only to replace it with another (hopefully minor) irritation. I bit the bullet and completed the bulkhead planking on the starboard side. Overall, it looks ok. However, that slight 'up sweep' at the bow did cause some issues more on the starboard side than the port. You can see from the pics that the bow planking has a minor 'stair stepped' look as it progresses up the bulkhead. This is from that curvature which I should have (lesson learned) corrected when I initially put in the wales. Even so, I think I can remedy with sanding (fingers crossed). Everything else looks pretty good. I also decided to redo my false deck. The original false deck was basswood stained with Golden Oak - and it was really bugging me. It just looked trashy. So I took some spare cedar stock from my bulkhead plank leftovers and remade the deck with pencil to simulate caulking and natural stain. I love the cleaner look...call me picky. Moving on... JpR62, NovaStorm, GrandpaPhil and 5 others 7 1 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalrusGuy Posted July 6, 2020 Share #112 Posted July 6, 2020 The planking looks really good!! I think I also had the same issue with the stairstep look in the planks which disappeared with sanding. I'm also eager to see the results of two nails per plank. Overworked724, Elijah and NovaStorm 3 Quote Current: USF Confederacy - Model Shipways (Build Log) HMS Pickle - Caldercraft (Build Log) Complete: Virgina 1819 - Artesania Latina (Gallery) U.S. Brig Syren - Model Shipways (Build Log, Gallery) On the shelf: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share #113 Posted July 7, 2020 Decided to make a few quick plank swatches to futz around with the nails/glue/stains. I found using a flat pair of tweezers to dip the tip of the nail in some glue solution (2:1 water:glue) worked best. The cedar nails have some backbone and don't tend to break. Good to try now...the #76 drill bit hole was too tight a fit and didn't give enough room to play. No issues after moving to a #75. It was amazingly quick work. I made some 3 plank swatches and simulated the butt ends with a razor blade cut. I wasn't trying to be neat with the alignment of the nails...just wanted to see the size perspective. I think the small nails work well. I tried some natural stain (A/B) and some Golden Oak by Minwax. The cross grain of the nails really soak up the Golden Oak stain and truly stick out. The cedar planks absorb the stain very evenly...very little grain interference. I like the more subdued effect of the Natural stain. I might try some more later using basswood treen nails, but at least I have some clear idea of technique. The nail pattern for B and C are identical. A bit on the fence on the double nail pattern. Did some light sanding on the bulkheads to even out the bow...no issues. Moving on!!... WalrusGuy, Ron Burns, GrandpaPhil and 6 others 9 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovaStorm Posted July 7, 2020 Share #114 Posted July 7, 2020 Really fine work Patrick, I like (A) the best to. Elijah, WalrusGuy and Overworked724 3 Quote ... I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier The last of Barrett's Privateers ~~~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPDDET Posted July 7, 2020 Share #115 Posted July 7, 2020 As always, methodical, well thought out tests and plans. Nice work, Patrick. WalrusGuy, Overworked724 and Elijah 3 Quote Current build: NRG Half Hull Previous build: MS Bluenose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share #116 Posted July 7, 2020 Thanks, Dave/Robin/All! The kind words, advice, and kudos keeps me motivated!!👍🏽 Just a bit on the drill...the #75 measures approximately 0.50mm. I believe Chuck’s example in his practicum used 0.55. So these are only very slightly smaller. Moving on to swatch #D. I decided to try a technique a friend from the Rope in Japan uses. He takes sharp (narrow) pencil lead to color in very slightly the nail holes before putting in the tree nail. After sanding and staining, the effect is a slightly darker nail with a halo around it...simulating some caulk. So...here I used a sharpened architect pencil and twirled the lead once in each hole. Added my tree nails...cedar. Gave the nails a haircut and sanded smooth. Followed by some natural stain. It worked pretty good! Upon close up you can see a bit better. I’m sure when the stain dries the nails might look a bit more subdued. I had given swatch #A and B a natural stain touch up to compare A/B/D with wet stain. I’ll update this tomorrow with some pics after the swatch panel dries to see the difference in the nails. My favorite right now is #D. Moving on!!! Ryland Craze, abelson, GrandpaPhil and 5 others 8 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotyka Posted July 8, 2020 Share #117 Posted July 8, 2020 Such an outstanding build log. I also wanted to mention that it's appreciated when you encounter your challenges and then your solutions. You do a great job of encouragement! Overworked724 and Elijah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share #118 Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, smotyka said: Such an outstanding build log. I also wanted to mention that it's appreciated when you encounter your challenges and then your solutions. You do a great job of encouragement! Very kind of you and much appreciate! Well, if there is such a hobby that reinforces failures as a learning experience, ship modeling is it! LOL. If you really want a great tutorial on my past challenges and solutions, read my Sultana build log! That reads like a comedy of errors. Elijah 1 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overworked724 Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share #119 Posted July 8, 2020 Question: Did anyone else in their Syren kit note the absence of materials to make the pintles and gudgeons? I do not see any brass strips in the kit to create the P&G's. (Not that it matters - I already had intention to make my own and have the materials...but still) Elijah 1 Quote ---------------------------------------------------- “Work like a Captain....Play like a Pirate!” — Every Ship Modeler...everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalrusGuy Posted July 8, 2020 Share #120 Posted July 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Overworked724 said: Question: Did anyone else in their Syren kit note the absence of materials to make the pintles and gudgeons? I do not see any brass strips in the kit to create the P&G's. (Not that it matters - I already had intention to make my own and have the materials...but still) For my kit they packed the brass strip in a tube together with the brass rod. Elijah and Overworked724 2 Quote Current: USF Confederacy - Model Shipways (Build Log) HMS Pickle - Caldercraft (Build Log) Complete: Virgina 1819 - Artesania Latina (Gallery) U.S. Brig Syren - Model Shipways (Build Log, Gallery) On the shelf: Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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