US Brig Syren 1803 by Overworked724 – Model Shipways – Scale 1:64

[WalrusGuy]

1 minute ago, Overworked724 said:

@WalrusGuyActually, the entire hull is basswood. I’m just done ever using basswood again. 😊 I’ll try to find some sealer. 

Oh yea I forgot you used basswood for the hidden stuff. That's really smart and I may do something like that if next time I get that wood again in a kit. 

 

Also, if I haven't mentioned it before, the hull is looking gorgeous!! 

[RichardG]

Patrick, I forgot to mention that the hull already had a coat of poly applied many years previously. You might want to using sanding sealer prior to the acrylic. Just sanding sealer would work but I found the color evenness of the primer helpful in keeping the copper lined up.

[Overworked724]

Got the starboard wales on...rough but pretty nice result. Used cedar and glad I did. Now working on the port side. 
 

Also made a simple jig to help me remove the copper plates from the adhesive backing without driving myself crazy. Pics to follow. 
 

Moving on...

[Overworked724]

22 hours ago, WalrusGuy said:

Also, if I haven't mentioned it before, the hull is looking gorgeous!! 

Thanks so much!  The words of encouragement really help!  

[Overworked724]

Well, I actually got some progress in this weekend.  Got the wales installed.  I cut my own using Chuck's Alaskan cedar.  Not only is the wood much more homogenous and easier to handle than the kit's crappy basswood, I simply love the smell of cedar!!!  The two lower 1/16" thick wales were not as difficult to align and bend as I had expected, and after some sanding, they trimmed up pretty nicely.  

 

And again - gratuitous photos of my hull which folks are probably getting sick of at this point (but I can't help myself)....

 

I decided to put the wales on unpainted as I knew that especially the two lower thicker wales would probably need some evening out with sanding.  Besides, I'll be doing a lot of painting anyway, so it gives me the opportunity to practice.  I also remember how much of a pain it was with my Sultana to put on the wales pre-painted...I still don't know what I was thinking...!!!

 

Moving on...

 

[WalrusGuy]

28 minutes ago, Overworked724 said:

And again - gratuitous photos of my hull which folks are probably getting sick of at this point (but I can't help myself)....

Quite the opposite, keep the photos coming!! I find myself also posting a lot of pics 😅

 

It's looking crisp and symmetric! 

[Overworked724]

So...this is where I am hoping folks can give me some feedback.  Like - real feedback (with pictures).  Many of the build logs for copper plated ships don't really go into detail on how the step by step process of actually 'applying' the plates to the hull is done.  Sure...I think we all get that the plates are applied to the hull using a self-adhesive copper foil which has been pre-stamped using an imprinting technique to simulate the bolts. 

 

But I'm curious what previous builders used to get the pre-stamped copper foil plates off the adhesive backing and on the ship without crimping/kinking the thin foil?  

 

So...I made my own method...with is not perfect...it is cumbersome...it is probably idiotic...but I haven't seen anyone else post a step by step (this includes Chuck's practicum) on how to do this without going crazy.  So...here is my solution.  I would really appreciate it if folks would post their own methods as a counterpoint this this...the sanity you save may be my own.

 

So...Step 1:

Take a piece of 3/4" quarter round and glue it to a scrap piece of wood.  (To be explained later...the quarter round helps a bit)

Step 2: Put some painters or masking tape (3/4") and cover the 1/4 round.  Then place a strip of 2-sided adhesive scotch tape on top of the masking tape. (This way you can rip off the tape (double sided and masking tape) easily without mess and start over when you need to refresh the tape

Step 3: Cut some plates (pre-stamped using your bolt templates) - I cut the stamped tape using a little mini-paper cutter.  Works like a charm and it's reproducible/quick.

Step 4: Apply the plate (foil side up) to the 2-sided tape leaving a slight overhang on the top edge.

Step 5: 'Flick' the edge pf the plate with the tweezers (use surgical tweezers or use an exacto to lift up the edge of the foil).  This is where you can get crappy results...if you 'bend' the foil, as I did on this first of my four trial plate, you can 'crimp' the foil.  You need to avoid excessive bends to get a 'straight' or unbent foil plate.  Note that using the "1/4" round as a base results in a less 'curly' plate ('straighter) once removed from the adhesive.  

Step 6: Once you have lifted a small portion of the foil (I like using a razor blade to avoid bending an edge (which is exactly what I did n the photo above) gently lift up enough to use a tweezers to grasp the edge of the foil plate.

Step 7: Grasp just enough of the edge of the foil as possible with a square tweezers to get good purchase (the edge you grasp will be covered by the subsequent plates, but try not to bruise the foil).  Do NOT lift straight up...you should slowly pull upward as well as away from the foil plate...think of it as trying to gently stretch the plate while slowly lifting it off the paper backing.

Step 8: Marvel at your anal retentive nature and shake your head that you are one of the few people on the planet that build model ships.  Then inspect the copper plate to ensure it is seamless and un-crimped.

Using this method, I can line up a whole series of plates and get them 'ready' for removal and application during the coppering stage (when and if I ever get there).  The 8" jig I made should hold 20 or so plates comfortably.  By the way, you can peel off the paper backing left over after removing the foil plates and reuse the tape on the jig - probably works a few times before needing to replace all the tape.

The results for the 4 plates I used to show this process are below.  You can see the minor crimp in the first (far left) copper plate.  The rest were fine - no bends or crimps.  I am sticking the plates on the jig itself...which is unsanded basswood. So the plates aren’t as ‘smooth’ as they ought to be. 

Thus end'eth the lesson.  I have not yet begun my coppering...but that's the method I have thought up to keep sane and relatively focused on a consistent process.  I would REALLY love to hear how other folks did their coppering.  (And not some vague response of what you used...I'd like to know how you did it.).

 

Have a good one! 

 

Moving on....

 

[WalrusGuy]

18 hours ago, Overworked724 said:

I would REALLY love to hear how other folks did their coppering. 

K so I don't think its easy to explain with words and pics without overcomplicating the process, so I took a video instead 😄

http://imgur.com/a/Q8zkf0b

(Let me know if you are unable to see it from that link and I'll try uploading it differently)

Also wear gloves when doing it, I was just lazy to grab gloves for the example video, but if you touch it without gloves, fingerprints will come up.

Hope this is sufficient

 

P.S. it has been a while since I did the coppering, so its not perfect, but after 10 or so tries of this method I think you can get the hang of it.

 

Coming to think of it, if the video works on your end, I may put such GIFs in my future posts to explain tricky processes better 😁

[Overworked724]

Short vid was perfect!  Excellent clarification on peeling the plates. Thank you!!  Gives me ideas!!!

[WalrusGuy]

No worries! After you get more practice, it gets much quicker too!!

[Overworked724]

Just putzed a bit with the trim pieces and upper transom section. 
 

My little molding scraper jig worked great. Used 1/16” square cedar piece which I cut fresh. Also used a section of 1/32” sheet to make a new upper transom section as I didn’t want to mess with the basswood piece...it had obvious graining (which doesn’t show up in the pic). 
 

Nice tip in cutting out the transom section was putting some scotch tap on the back of the piece as I used a razor to slowly carve it out. Made it much easier!  

 

 

Moving on....

[Redshadowrider]

Newbee here.  Regarding the process of removing the adhesive backing from the copper Plates.  We have a similar issue in the RC plane hobby with the covering materials.   The covering has a thin layer of heat sensitive glue on the back, and then a layer of protective film on top.  To separate the film from the covering we use tape like on the quarter round, but we also use tape on the colored film side.  The tape attaches to the film backing on one side and the tape on the other side attaches to the colored film.  This allows for an even pull to both protective backing, and the covering side.  
I am thinking that placing the backing on a flat double taped surface With copper side up.  Then using either a piece of 1/4 round to roll lightly over the copper, or a flat piece with tape to gently lift the copper plate off of the backing.  It might help to protect the shape and detail of the copper intact.  I am just thinking, and would try it, but I am miles away from even starting mine.

[RichardG]

22 hours ago, WalrusGuy said:

K so I don't think its easy to explain with words and pics without overcomplicating the process, so I took a video instead 😄

http://imgur.com/a/Q8zkf0b

(Let me know if you are unable to see it from that link and I'll try uploading it differently)

Also wear gloves when doing it, I was just lazy to grab gloves for the example video, but if you touch it without gloves, fingerprints will come up.

Hope this is sufficient

 

I did roughly the same, starting it with a knife and making sure I curved the paper back not the foil. Holding with the knife while peeling is a good idea - that I didn't think of.

 

As to gloves, I didn't use those. I find with working at a small scales, my coordination is difficult enough even without gloves. I did not have any issues with fingerprints. I think this varies from person to person. You might want to try first.

[Overworked724]

41 minutes ago, Redshadowrider said:

 The tape attaches to the film backing on one side and the tape on the other side attaches to the colored film.  This allows for an even pull to both protective backing, and the covering side.  

Thanks!  But Not sure I can visualize this...you seem to end up with the foil plate now stuck to another paper backing...you are just exchanging sides. Not sure how you get the foil off the tape used to separate it from its original paper backing. 
 

Seems to me the copper plate still has risk of getting links. Looking for pics!  

[Redshadowrider]

Maybe an easier way is to take a rolled piece of tape in each hand.  Holding it between thumb and forefinger leaving a flattened part to push against the copper and backing.  Then gently pull it apart leaving the copper on one side and the backing on the other.  I would add pictures, but happen to be out of state seeing our new/first grand son.  It might take some testing to see how it works.  In the video, I just envision trying to separate the pieces by using the xacto knife as bending at least one corner on every copper plate.  

[WalrusGuy]

1 minute ago, Redshadowrider said:

In the video, I just envision trying to separate the pieces by using the xacto knife as bending at least one corner on every copper plate.  

Congrats on your first grandson!!! 

 

That did happen during my first tries, but if you get the blade right between the strip and backing with a sliding motion, there is no crease whatsoever. And if a tiny crease did happen, it would be hidden away by the overlap of the next plate 😁

 

 

[Overworked724]

Decided to get my fashion pieces in now. I still need to put in my fixed blocks and trunnels, so getting the fashion pieces in now helps clarify where the stern double blocks will be located in each side of the hull. 
 

 

Moving on!......

[Overworked724]

After a day of meetings...was almost too tired to mess with the Syren. But I simply couldn’t resist a bit of minor progress. 
 

The keel piece that’s been hanging out beyond the end of the stern has been driving me crazy. 

 

It’s like a mini bowsprit...just waiting to get snapped off!!!  But, the time had finally come to add a the stern piece. I can’t tell you how much of a relief it was to saw off that keel piece extension. 

 

Oh yeah!!!  Moving on....

[NovaStorm]

HaHaa I got a good laugh outta that one Pat. I remember feeling the same way about the sucker hanging off the stern. 

[Overworked724]

Got the square fixed block holes at midships (sp?) drilled out. Used a 0.1mm brass bar to act as a ‘razor’ barrier to catch my exacto as I was scoring the vertical lines. SO glad I did...I would have seriously etched the surrounding wood without a good ‘backstop’. Drilled out the dead wood carefully and sanded. Best I could do...will make the hole for the double sheave blocks at the stern a bit later. 

 

I gave me a bit of room above the block to give me some wiggle room. The gap will be covered by the shear strake. But the resultant edges of the holes for the rectangular blocks ended up pretty straight...may need to touch up...but not horrible. 

 

 

 

 

Also got the transom planked. Still needs sanding. He’ll...everything needs sanding. LOL

 

 

 

 

Angle of the sills was the biggest challenge. Careful careful...!!!!   Moving on!

 

[CPDDET]

Looking good Patrick. I like the idea of using the brass bar as a stop. I'm sure that tip will come in handy for me.

[Overworked724]

And now for something completely different. 
 

Made a cap rail forming block with some spare wood. Traced the shape on a piece of paper and transferred it...nothing unusual. Not certain if 1/16” thick section can bend around those tight corners...so wasn’t sure if I needed to round out the top of the transom a bit more. 
 

Decided to give it a go...using 1/32” thick cedar. This stuff bends cleanly when wet and I was able to bend around the block no problem. Wanted to try using 2 sections of 1/32” wood...rather than one thick piece. But we’ll see...I’m still dinking around with this idea. 
 

 

 

 

 

Also got the diary of Sam Leech on Amazon!  This seaman served in both US and British navies, and was serving on board Syren when it was captured by the British during the War of 1812 and renamed Siren...(because the English have to spell things weird!). Very excellent read so far!

 

 

Moving on....

 

 

[Seahawk1313]

Your ship is coming along very nice.  As for bending wood,  I do almost the same but I soak the wood before I bend it on a form. then I mircowave it for about 45 seconds.  I use this on Cherry up to 3/32 's.  I use this method for the head rails and anything I need to bend.  I use rubber bands to hold the piece to the form, nothing metal in the microwave,It would Not like that!  LOL! - Hal

[Overworked724]

2 minutes ago, Seahawk1313 said:

Your ship is coming along very nice.  As for bending wood,  I do almost the same but I soak the wood before I bend it on a form. t

 

Actually, I do soak the wood.  And keep it very wet as I slowly wrap it around the wooden forming block.  I have NOT tried microwaving.  Do you do this while it's wet or after it dries?  Also, do you leave the rubber bands on?

[Seahawk1313]

Hi Patrick-  I soak the piece good, and wet the block just before I put it in the microwave , to keep the form from getting too hot .  Microwave time may need to be played with.-Hal

[Overworked724]

22 hours ago, Seahawk1313 said:

Hi Patrick-  I soak the piece good, and wet the block just before I put it in the microwave , to keep the form from getting too hot .  Microwave time may need to be played with.-Hal

I tried rewetting and microwaving. It did help shape the piece tremendously!  Might experiment a bit with the microwave. Interesting...piece came out very hot as well as almost dry. 
 

 

[CPDDET]

Great information on these posts. 

 

Patrick, could you comment further on how cedar is working in other aspects? I see yellow cedar is readily available.

[Overworked724]

5 hours ago, CPDDET said:

Great information on these posts. 

 

Patrick, could you comment further on how cedar is working in other aspects? I see yellow cedar is readily available.

Dave, it sands down like glass and it cuts very easily. Bending around sharp corners when the wood is wet is not as difficult as with basswood. The cedar wood tends to hold it’s shape better and the tightness of the grain is obvious because the wood doesn’t splinter as easily when bending around those sharp corners.
 

The stain takes into the wood much better and more evenly for Cedar then for basswood.  I think the big sell for me is that it doesn’t get hairy and thready like like basswood does after sanding. After you prepare the wood it’s ready to work.
 

Of course you can take this with a grain of salt because my experience with wood is pretty limited. I think the big sell for me is that it doesn’t get hairy and thready like like basswood does and cuts like butter. 
 

I have a little bit of boxwood and the stuff is like gold to me for those same reasons I like cedar. The only drawback of cedar (which I actually like) is the yellowish hue. But I love the smell as well. 
 

I got some from Syren and the stuff Chuck sells is worth trying. 👍🏽

[CPDDET]

Thanks Patrick, just looking ahead to my next build which will be from scratch.

 

Planning on something small like a dory to perfect my skills before taking on a ship like yours.

 

I appreciate your input.

 

Dave

[Overworked724]

For scratch I would totally avoid basswood. 😎