Blackie Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share #31 Posted November 14, 2013 (edited) Lou I can't see why we would not share our thoughts and research in this hobby - I need all the help that I can get. I have modified my earlier bow drawing to include a sketch of my yoke and the collar that will sit in the groove and the thimbles are lashed together below the bowsprit to hold it firm against the bees. Like most of my kit after the hull, I didn't like the kit yoke and made my own from a walnut plank and added the groove to take the collar. My foremast now and the yet-to be made mainmast have trestle trees and cross trees and definitely no fighting top according to the books and sketches that I am looking at. I have been drawing all over the earlier mast drawing and have worked out some sketches of what I want to do for working stay tackles. halyards and various collars, etc. The mast drawing is a mess and too large to scan but I could perhaps draw bits of it onto A4 size and show the changes - I probably need to do that just for me anyway. I'll post it when I do it. A lot of my rigging and fittings come out of a few books including The Global Schooner by Karl Heinz Marquardt. He has done a few AOS books as well as the one on schooners. I also use a few Charles Davis books and of course the POB boats as examples if I think the item is true to 1810 - the year I am trying to stick to. No plans to draw ships - too many curves! Do you have a connection to the Ardent class? I am interested in the 74 gun HMS Revenge which fought at Trafalgar. One of my ggg grandfathers (William Robinson aka Jack Nastyface) served on board for 6 years including Trafalgar before he deserted. I will send the spreadsheet and some other sketches to your email address. Blackie Edited November 14, 2013 by Blackie Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share #32 Posted November 14, 2013 In between other jobs I have been making my own cannon carriages but have reused the kit cannons. I have assembled two so far and am going crazy making the hooks for the tackles. One of them is in the attached file. fnkershner and tasmanian 2 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted November 18, 2013 Author Share #33 Posted November 18, 2013 I am working out the sail plan and a while ago I had decided to go with 3 headsails rather than the 4 shown in the kit drawings. I remain of that opinion and have again read the comments in my POB book which says that the BC had only 3 large headsails to not impede the driving power of the sails in that area. So far so good. However, I went back to my sketch of the bowsprit rigging (uploaded above) and now think that the stay shown as #220 (fore preventer stay) should be deleted. The POB book does not refer to it and the sail plans for the POB I and POB II have no sail on it. Further, in my source books this stay is only shown when the jibboom is very long, say twice the length of the bowsprit. In my Harvey the jibboom length beyond the bowsprit cap is about the same length as the bowsprit projecting beyond the bow. I think that I will delete this stay and move the martingale connected at that point out to the end of the jibboom. Any help/comments will be appreciated. Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted November 18, 2013 Share #34 Posted November 18, 2013 Blackie - you have done some really good work in this area. And I must confess that you are way ahead of me. I have looked at your research and it is sound. I am sorry I don't have much to offer. Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share #35 Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) I have decided on the fore and aft sail plan as below and the relevant stays. Three head sails and the stays which I believe to be about the correct year of 1810. The POB rigs are a little different and I can't see their like in my sketches of old schooners. Kit stay # 220 from the centre of the jibboom has been deleted and the martingales adjusted to suit. I have also settle on the fixings at the foremast head which will be eyebolts passing through the mast for strength and simplicity. The latter objective seems to me to be something that the BC builders would have aimed for when you look at when and where they were built - metal straps and brackets were all more material and more working of metal that they would have found difficult. Edited November 19, 2013 by Blackie EricWilliamMarshall 1 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted November 19, 2013 Share #36 Posted November 19, 2013 I assume you have deleted the square sails on the foremast in the above diagram to expose your changes. I agree with what I see. Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share #37 Posted November 20, 2013 Yes Floyd and I have now done a drawing for the square sails. I also had a rethink on the fore and aft sails and the stay #224. It interfered with hoisting the main gaff topsail using sail hoops rather than another gaff set vet high on the main mast. I have added another sketch. fnkershner and EricWilliamMarshall 2 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASAT Posted November 23, 2013 Share #38 Posted November 23, 2013 Thanks for those drawings, I will be using them as I progress, starting on the bowsprit now... Lou Quote Lou, In Pleasant View Harvey by ASAT- AL Scale 1:50 - Kitbash Fair American by ASAT - LSS Craftsman Plus https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23121-revenge-1577-by-asat-amati-164/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share #39 Posted November 27, 2013 A pleasure Lou. I have been off the air for about a week due to a failed modem. I also am working on the bow sprit and foremast rigging. I have served some stays and have just completed a few connections for the bob stays and bowsprit shrouds so let's stay in touch. Blackie Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirvana Posted November 27, 2013 Share #40 Posted November 27, 2013 Blackie, I am following your build with interest just like Floyd,There are details I am to implement to my build . Thank you for all the drawings. Quote Please, visit our Facebook page! Respectfully Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted November 27, 2013 Share #41 Posted November 27, 2013 So Dr. Per where is your Build log? As Model ship Dr. you have a standard to live up to! Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirvana Posted November 27, 2013 Share #42 Posted November 27, 2013 Floyd, sssh That's is project X lol Quote Please, visit our Facebook page! Respectfully Per aka Dr. Per@Therapy for Shipaholics Finished: T37, BB Marie Jeanne - located on a shelf in Sweden, 18th Century Longboat, Winchelsea Capstan Current: America by Constructo, Solö Ruff, USS Syren by MS, Bluenose by MS Viking funeral: Harley almost a Harvey Nautical Research Guild Member - 'Taint a hobby if you gotta hurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted December 4, 2013 Author Share #43 Posted December 4, 2013 Moving slowly but have finished the gaff for the foremast as per the attached. Salty Sea Dog, fnkershner, Senior ole salt and 1 other 4 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share #44 Posted December 8, 2013 (edited) I need some advice please. I have made a few drawings of the boat davits and running rigging for the spanker boom and gaff and they are attached. Can you see any problems? I think that they will all cleat each other when assembled on the model and should give enough space for the crew to work the lines. Perhaps the steering tackle will foul the main sheet? Yes it will!!!! Do I need the gaff vangs? I can find lots of images which have none including POB and La Recouvrance. To delete these would free up some space in what has become a quite busy area. Thanks Blackie Edited December 8, 2013 by Blackie EricWilliamMarshall 1 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASAT Posted December 8, 2013 Share #45 Posted December 8, 2013 blackie, I found that I needed the vangs to exert some downward pull on the gaff so that the peak halyard would set correctly and help keep the lines taut. I however am not planning on as extensive rigging as you are though. I think trade offs need to be made to compensate for lack of mass, no sails, etc when working at model scales. Lou Quote Lou, In Pleasant View Harvey by ASAT- AL Scale 1:50 - Kitbash Fair American by ASAT - LSS Craftsman Plus https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23121-revenge-1577-by-asat-amati-164/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted December 8, 2013 Author Share #46 Posted December 8, 2013 Thanks Lou, I'm sure that you will get there before me so I'll keep an eye on your log. I see what you mean about the pull against the peak halyard. I had a thought of eliminating the guy pendants which would also free up some space. I wondered if the continuous main sheet could act instead. It'll be a while before I get there. Blackie Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share #47 Posted March 10, 2014 I don't know where the time goes though some travelling has slowed me down a bit. Progress shots are attached and I have now almost finished the main mast, main topmast, boom and gaff. I have also made the yards for the foremast but will not fit them until I have finished the ratlines. The rigging is not tightened until I rig the main mast as I have seen changes in rigging already set when I add other lines.The deck houses etc are completed but will be fitted after the masts and rigging. Aussie048, kruginmi, Rach10199 and 5 others 8 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted March 10, 2014 Share #48 Posted March 10, 2014 Blackie! It is so good to see you back! I have been doing some dreaming about the correct diameter of the various rigging. yours looks so much better than the plans. Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share #49 Posted March 10, 2014 Hi Floyd, if it will help you I can send you my diagrams of the lengths and diameters for my spars. I searched some books I have and settled on these as the best fit that I could find for a schooner of the BC size. The spars are mot straight tapers from end to end as shown in the kit drawings/instructions. fnkershner 1 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted March 10, 2014 Share #50 Posted March 10, 2014 I am several months for this point in my build (and currently working on another project) but yes please. Nice work! Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share #51 Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I seem to have some trouble uploading drawing files using PM so here they are. These sketches are what's shown on my log or will be used for the rigging. I should say that when I rigged the bowsprit and jib boom, I changed the stays, etc slightly from the layouts shown in my sketches included in the early log. This was to allow the anchor stock to swing clear - 3D reality always trumps 2D planning. Foremast Dims.pdf Top Foremast Dims.pdf Foremast Head.pdf Foremast Yard.pdf Lower Topsail Yard.pdf Lower Topsail Yard Halyard.pdf Edited March 12, 2014 by Blackie fnkershner and EricWilliamMarshall 2 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share #52 Posted March 13, 2014 I'm off onto the road for a few weeks so before I go, I thought I would post some shots of the main mast and its spars. I will finish coating the mast, top mast, boom and gaff before I go and then fit them when I return. When researching the mast dimensions and shape I found two versions of the shape at the mast head. I went with what is shown but now believe that I should have done it the other way. That was to extend the square section down to the base of the cheeks - I think that would look better and it certainly would have been easier to make. Aussie048, EricWilliamMarshall, dgbot and 1 other 4 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share #53 Posted May 31, 2014 It's been some time since I posted something but I have moved on a little with the main mast and most of its rigging now fitted. Aussie048, EricWilliamMarshall, piperjoe and 2 others 5 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnkershner Posted May 31, 2014 Share #54 Posted May 31, 2014 Blackie - Welcome back. I think it is interesting that you are rigging and have no deck furniture. Comments? Quote Current Builds - 18th Century Longboat, MS Syren Completed Builds - MS Bluenose, Panart BatteStation Cross section, Endevour J Boat Half Hull, Windego Half Hull, R/C T37 Breezing Along, R/C Victoria 32, SolCat 18 On the shelf - Panart San Felipe, Euromodel Ajax, C.Mamoli America, Its a sailor's Life for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kruginmi Posted May 31, 2014 Share #55 Posted May 31, 2014 Welcome back Blackie, I know my Lady Anne sits patiently and will be there when I'm ready. Thanks for sharing your research, I will stash in my build area. Beautiful work. I would add a 12" ruler next time so people can realize this size of this build. I have no idea where I will put mine when it is done but it is the journey and not the end. Keep up the photos! Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share #56 Posted June 1, 2014 (edited) Thanks Mark, I agree about the scale rule which I will try and remember in the future. Yes it is a large model and I also am a little concerned about where it will go when finished. I had thought about a space on top of some shelves but the 11' ceiling is still too low! You will notice that some of my rigging has varied from that shown in my sketches. Floyd, as you know I have made most of the deck furniture but thought that it would be easier to rig without it getting in the way. It certainly seems easier to fit pin rails along the bulwark rails as I needed them when rigging the shrouds and stays without the deckhouses being in the way. I am now tightening up the shrouds and stays and then I must make the fife rail for the main mast. Then I can continue to rig the boom, gaff and yards. Blackie Edited June 1, 2014 by Blackie Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share #57 Posted June 1, 2014 I need some advice please. As I worked on this kit bash, I added an extra gun port forward of the foremast but will still add only the original 8 guns. I am finally getting to the original 2 stern gun ports and have decided to infill them with gun port lids rather than leave them open. I had first thought to just fit the lid with no hinges but am now thinking that perhaps I should add some hinges. I do NOT intend to fit lids to the other 8 gun ports. My model will be rigged without sails but I'm thinking of fitting the guns in different positions such as run out, run in and secured against the bulwark. EricWilliamMarshall 1 Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kruginmi Posted June 1, 2014 Share #58 Posted June 1, 2014 Blackie, Way back when I was going through the same thought process for the Lady Anne to do the exact same thing. For myself, I ended up thinking this was a primarily a working ship and not a man-a-war so I decided to use lift out ports. They have planks stretching across them inboard which are secured against the bulkhead. When required, they would be unsecured and then lifted in towards the center line of the ship for stowage (let me know if I need to sketch this out). Just seems more in keeping with the type of ship I envisioned. I in fact was going to secure two of my guns parallel to the bulwarks against the affixed port lid to maximize the usable space and get the gun pretty much out of the way. I haven't totally worked out the rigging for this but know I will do it this way. Totally up to you, of course. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share #59 Posted June 1, 2014 Thanks Mark That sounds like a good idea. I was worried that hinges just wouldn't work in the low bulwark on the BC. I think I know what you mean but a sketch of the inboard planks would help if possible. Blackie Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted June 20, 2014 Author Share #60 Posted June 20, 2014 It's slow progress here and in between rigging the mainmast I am doing the ratlines on the foremast. A word of advice if you will permit me: tie the ratlines BEFORE you tighten the backstays and especially those high up BEFORE you rig the futtock shrouds for the topmast shrouds. I can still loosen off the backstays to give me space but too late to remove or loosen the futtock shrouds. It's still doable but it would be a lot easier to get in earlier. Blackie Quote Current build: Amati Shamrock V 1:80 Past Builds: Kits: Schooner for Port Jackson, MSY and St Lucia (Tartane), Panart, Modified Harvey, AL Scratch: Captain Cook III Pilot Steamer, Kookaburra II motor launch, Sydney Heritage Fleet Steam Tug Waratah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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