Rattlesnake by JSGerson - FINISHED - Mamoli - 1:64 - Using Robert Hunt’s practicum

[scott larkins]

Yeah, we all lost early pics due to a site melt down.  The ones who were not a far along as you had it easier in replacing those pics.

[JSGerson]

Actually Scott, this is fairly recent stuff that went missing and it happened twice. 

[scott larkins]

Wow, that stinks.

[JSGerson]

Meanwhile…Back at the Ship’s Boat

If you may remember, I decided to forgo the boat shell that came with the Mamoli kit and elected to build a Plank-On-Frame boat from Model Shipways and document that build on a separate log.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/5430-ship%E2%80%99s-boat-by-jsgerson-model-shipways/

 

The ship’s boat has now been completed. All that was left was to lash it onto the ship. According to the Mamoli plans, a continuous rope loop crisscrosses over the boat while sitting on the spare masts through eyelets in the deck. 

[JSGerson]

Well I knew the rope had to have a beginning and an end however I could not find either a clear detailed image or description as to how this was configured. The Practicum just show the boat sitting on the spare masts without any ropes, the MS plans show the boat in position but didn’t explain or show  the lashing at all, and the Hahn plans were totally silent about the boat altogether. So I took my best shot. I decided to start the lashing with a hook at the end of a rope line at one end and a hook block at the other.

 

As an aside, the shafts of the eyelets that were cut off are not thrown away. I save them because they are useful for making construction pins and other odds and ends. I also use broken drill bits, but they are harder to trim.

[JSGerson]

First the hooked end is hooked to a deck eyelet and then crisscrossed over the boat through the other eyelets as show in the diagram where it comes back to the starting point. Here I added the hooked block, but what to do with the bitter end? I tied it back onto itself and laid the remainder of the rope on the boat. Not being a sailor I’m clueless to the accuracy of this arrangement.

[MEDDO]

I also have the LSS kit bash Rattlesnake in my queue.  I love seeing this.  Keep up the great work.

[Martin W]

Hi Jon -- Your solution to the lashing question seems to have worked out quite well.  Those are lovely photos of a nice build.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[scott larkins]

That seems to have worked out well for you.  Nice addition.

[JSGerson]

Continuing the Mast Tops

 

Yeah, I know it’s been a while since my last post. I’ve been on sort of a holiday for the last month or so since I completed the Ship’s Boat. That, and visiting my 96 old Mother in Florida (where else?) for a couple of weeks with my Sister took me away from model making. Because she still lives by herself (with daily visits by a Nurse’s Aid, we had a long To-Do List and it took both of us to complete it. It was a nice break.

 

At this point in the Practicum I should be starting Page 14 of Rigging Chapter 1. Here the Practicum directs the builder to construct the trestletrees and the crosstrees and attach them to the top platforms. It states: “I made the trestletrees and the crosstrees from 3/32” x 1/16” boxwood.” Looking at the plans I realized this had to be wrong. The trestletrees were obviously thicker in height than the crosstrees. I determined that the trestle trees had to made from 3/32” x 1/8” stock and the crosstrees from 3/32” x 1/16”. Also looking at all the different plans and reference books, they were consistent in showing the ends of the trees were rounded, something the Practicum did not address.

 

Then because I was studying the mast tops it occurred to me that the Practicum did not address the ribs on top of the platform, bolsters, sleepers, and adding all the holes necessary that had to be made for the stanchions, deadeyes, and blocks. If I follow Harold Hahn’s rigging plan, which shows “crowsfeet” rigging (which Mamoli and Model Shipways plans do not) then even more holes would be required. Wouldn’t it be simpler to drill them now before the trees were added let alone attaching it to the mast per the Practicum? It obvious Mr. Hunt had no intension to rig his model. He was running out of time to meet some deadline with this and three other models he was constructing at the same time. Now as I have stated before, I could not have gotten this far if it weren’t for the detailed instruction provided in his Practicum. However, now I must proceed with caution reading the kit plans with a lot more intensity and using the Practicum only as a guide instead of an absolute how-to set of instructions. I’m treading on thin ice as I have never rigged a ship before.

 

The first diagram below is from Model Shipways

The second and third are from Mamoli

And the last is a diagram of the Crowsfeet from James Lee’s The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625 - 1860

[jud]

Like how you tied your boat down and yes I would have done it just a bit different. At the ring where you started I would have secured a single block with single blocks on each ring used for a tie down point. Then placed some round stock outboard of the ore locks large enough to guide the tie down line clear of the edge of the boat and made a device to do the same at the forward most crossing.  I would have then started the weave  at the starboard ring where you did with the line tied off securely and then ran the weave, again, as you did. When I got back with the other end of the line I would have ran it through the unused single block already secured to that tie down ring by running it through the block from the boat side, then have pulled the line tight across the boat, grab the taught line running down from the edge of the boat to the block you are using as a marker and put a Butterfly Knot or preferably a Truckers Hitch at that point. Run the bitter end coming from the outboard side of that last block up and through the loop in the knot you just tied, what you will have is a mechanical advantage as if you had put a block in the line there, pull the tie down  line taught and tie off with a couple of half hitches. Come by a few hours later and snug it up again, repeat until the stretch is out of the line. Doing it this way it is easy to re tighten or cast off and if you find you need to move the knot, it is easy and quick to do.

Could do the same without blocks, the rings would work alone but it would be better for the line and easier for it to run and balance the forces while tightening if you use the blocks.

jud

 

Let me add, Nice job on the Rattlesnake and on that small boat we just tied down for sea.

Edited May 25, 2014 by jud

[Blue Pilot]

Hi JSGerson

I have been following your log with interest as I hope to build the Rattlesnake in the future.  I am currently building Hunts Sophomore Course the Pride of Baltimore.  I have the Mamoli kit, Hahn plans and practicum printed out but have not gone any further.

 

These are just my observations and thoughts.  I hope you will forgive me butting in.  First, let me say I am no expert by any means so take all I say with that in mind but reading through your log in terms of the rigging there appears to be a constant conflict and confusion looking at the Mamoli plans, The Practicum, Model Shipways plans and Hahn’s Plans. From your build I have concluded when I get there I will try and follow one and omit the others.  Might I suggest you do the same. 

 

It is difficult if not impossible to know what was historically correct any way as in many cases a Captain would choose to rig a ship as he saw fit. I suggest you pick the one that suits you and stick to that.  In fact Hunt states in previous practicums to put the kit instructions away as he will not be following them to the letter so I think you are causing yourself a great deal of trouble trying to reconcile all these sources.  From my own limited reading, mostly on this forum I would rate them Hahn, Hunt, Model Shipways and lastly Mamoli.  I am not sure what is best for you but based on your log when I get there I will pick one and only one source to follow.  I would suggest you consider picking one set of plans and stick to that.  If you choose to deviate from the practicum then I would suggest follow the Hahn plans or Model Shipways but that is my opinion.  Best of luck and thanks for the log as seeing you work through problems will hopefully make my own effort a better one.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Blue Pilot

[JSGerson]

Jud - Thanks for your insight, I wish I had read it earlier before I secured the boat to the model. As I originally stated, I did what I did because I knew no better. All of the models pictures I looked at that I could see that level of detail were very few and I did not see any blocks attached to the rings nor did I see any protection placed on the boat for the rope wrapping around the edges. That’s not to say it wasn’t done by a number of different crew; I was just not aware of it. As for the hitch, I knew there had to be some kind of knot that would be easy to release. The problem was the hitch I used just cannot be seen at this scale. If your method of securing the boat gets under my skin, I just might change it, but for now I’ll let it go.

 

Blue Pilot – I agree that I should follow one set of plans, I will try to. The problem is that I am clueless as to how to rig a ship. The Hahn plans provide the overall rigging plan but don’t have the details I need to attach the lines. It’s written for a rigging knowledgeable person. The Practicum has been my bible but at this point I find that a lot of detail has been skipped over, over simplified, or not addressed so I must consult other sources. Model Shipways gives a nice over view of the rigging with specific details. Mamoli provides nice perspective images in their details. Then there are the reference books which I consult when I need a better understanding of what it is I’m making. So yes, I am trying to follow one leader, the Practicum, but it must be supplemented to fill in the deficiencies. Thanks for your concern.

[Martin W]

Hi Jon -- good to have you back!  I sympathize with your anxiety over rigging, especially at the start, since there are just so many lines to tie, blocks to seize, holes to drill, eye-bolts, and on and on and on.  I got the chapter on rigging in Bob Hunt's Rattlesnake practicum before I got the rest of the practicum.  I was where you are on my first build (Prince de Neufchatel), and the kit instructions said something like, start from the masts and work outward.  That was about it. Bob's instructions were methodical and clear enough for me to get through that rigging project.  But when I returned to it for the Rattlesnake itself, I found -- just as you're doing -- that it had so many mistakes, and actually wasn't so methodical after all, that I only consulted it occasionally.  If you have Antscherl's vol 4 of TFFM, and Petersen's book, you should be able to find your way with the Model Shipways plans.  Just start at one end and work toward the other.  I began with the mizzen, did the shrouds and jackstay, then moved to the mainmast and fore, focusing mostly on the lower rigging.  By the time I got to the foremast and jib, I found a logic to the process so that I knew pretty much how to proceed -- or maybe it would be more accurate to say I saw what I should have done earlier on.  The Model Shipways plans really seemed the most detailed and helpful, but I still looked to the Mamoli plans for certain steps.

 

As for drilling holes in the tops, I'd say do as much as you can think of before putting the mast in place.  Drill those holes and seize all the blocks that go under the top -- and set them with diluted glue so they won't fail.   Crowsfeet aren't that hard, and they really do look nice.

 

The MS plans for the tops have all the details you'll need.  Study it closely.

 

One other bit of advice:  buy lots and lots of blocks of every size -- you'll run out faster than you think. 

 

Slow and steady!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[jud]

JSGerson, the method I described may not be the proper method, it is how I would have done it by expanding on your work. Ropes around square corners are hard on lines, ashore or afloat. Those using ropes will avoid any sharp edge, even if only placing a waded up rag at those points. I do use the Truckers Hitch occasionally when securing something on a truck or trying to pull something together but the knot I most often use was called a bowline when I learned it on the Ammen DD 527 in 1960 and is tied in the line without either end of the line involved. I tie it by laying the line across my left palm and going around the whole hand once, crossing the beginning of the first loop, around again and twist two loops once and pull the third through, forming a loop that will not slip or move up or down the line and is easy to remove, Its automatic and I probably use it a dozen times a year.

jud

Edited May 26, 2014 by jud

[JSGerson]

OK, where to begin? I started with creating the ribs or battens, those radial reinforcing members. These seemingly simple elements really aren’t. They actually taper down thinner in height towards the center square hole in the top and (although you can’t see it in the pictures below) they also have a very slight narrowing taper when looked at in the plan view. The battens were made from 1/16” x 1/32” boxwood stock. Because the Practicum did not address these, the wood supplement package from HobbyMills did not supply this size stock which required that I mill them from scrap wood on the Byrnes Saw. The taper was made using a hand-held vise and a file.

 

[JSGerson]

Actually they are more complicated than that but at 1/64 scale, I’m no Master Builder…yet. Once all the battens were installed I wanted to drill all the holes and slots for the rail stanchions, futtock plates that hold the deadeyes, and the crowsfeet. Based on Blue Ensign’s log for his build of the 1/64 scale HMS Pegasus, I will drill the crossfeet holes 0.5mm for 0.1mm line. As near as I can determine from Hahn’s plans, 13 holes in the Foremast top will be required.

[JSGerson]

The stanchions that came with the Mamoli kit I feel are too thick and clumsy. They just don’t seem to be to scale. I would be a lot of work to file them down and I’m not sure the results would be worth the effort. If I am to drill the stanchion openings now, I need to know what I putting in there to determine the size and shape. So, I’m going to take a stab at making them with 3/64” “music wire” for stiffness of the posts and connected to copper plate (to be determined) bent to cradle the railing; more on that effort later. At this point I haven’t determined the size of the futtock plates.

 

[MEDDO]

Looking good there.  I also feel a bit uneasy about supplied pieces not looking quit right.  Unfortunately I am still such a beginner that I am going straight from the kit as it were.  I eventually want to do this exact kit.  I am interested in how you overcome this step.

[JSGerson]

Me too!

[scott larkins]

Nice.

[Martin W]

Those platforms are very, Jon.  You're wise to drill the holes now.  And as for the stanchions, well, you could perhaps cut some out of boxwood that would match the tops.  Eh?

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[JSGerson]

I thought about how I would make the rail stanchions especially the U-shaped saddle that fits on top. My first thought was to solder the saddle on. Sounded easy except I don’t have any solder equipment and my only experience is a very limited knowledge of how to connect a couple of electric wires as my Father showed me when I was a child. I read articles and viewed YouTube videos about silver soldering but reading and watching is one thing, doing is another. So before I committed money to getting soldering equipment and supplies, I decided to at least try using epoxy glue.

 

I went to Hobby Lobby which is the nearest hobby type store near me within 25 miles. It’s more of a crafts store than a hobby shop. There, I purchased the smallest amount of copper they sold, a 5 x 7” 0.16” copper plate. Using a strip of paper to create a template for the saddle, I determined that I needed a strip of copper about 1/8” wide. Using a pair of hand shears, a strip was cut off.

[JSGerson]

Matching the thickness of the music wire, a 3/64” bit was used to drill a hole on the center axis of the strip as close to end as I could. This was cut off at an equal distance on the other side of the hole. Drilling the hole first was much easier than trying to drill it after the piece was cut off. Using a pair of flat nose pliers, the two sides were bent up to a 90° angle forming the U-shaped saddle. The hole was then  filed with a round needle file to ensure proper fit, allowing a piece of 17mm long music wire to be epoxied on. Once the glue had set and the excess trimmed, it was “painted” black with a Sharpie pen.

[JSGerson]

Since this appears to work I now know what size hole to drill for the stanchions. Next I need to figure out how the futtocks work. The last item to the stanchion to be made is the little base plate which is not needed at this time so it will be created later.

[JSGerson]

What is taking me so long to drill the holes in the tops is among other things trying to figure out where the rigging is going. As I stated, I plan to rig Crows feet as shown in Harold Hahn’s plans but neither the Mamoli nor the Model Shipways show this. When I look at the books from Petersson, Lee, and Antsherl they show in excruciating detail how the Crowsfeet is supposed to look. All fine and good except that both Mamoli and MS show rigging and blocks that the book authors don’t, specifically the buntline blocks. (see comment 520 of the log).

 

The Mamoli plan (third image) shows 12 blocks (Nos 450 – 499 and 451 – 499) and the MS plans  (first image) shows 6 blocks. Both plans show them attached to the rim of the platform. Because my model will have the Crowsfeet, it would appear that the blocks attached to the fore rim would interfere with it. The books on the other hand show either 6 or 12 blocks suspended underneath the platform using something called a Jeer Strop (No. 23 in the diagram below).

 

Now I know no two rigging plans are the same so I’ve chosen the Hahn’s plan as the Master guide but I still have to refer to anything I can lay my hands on for the details. For instance the diagram shows deadeye and futtock shroud plates (No 29) as well as the MS plans (not shown). The Mamoli plans appear to just use rigging line (2^nd image comment 520). What will I use? I have no idea at this stage. If I go with the plates, I’ll have to make them somehow.

[JSGerson]

1.      Main topmast shrouds

2.      Mainmast cap

3.      Main yard lift block strop

4.      Hole for main topmast

5.      Ratlines

6.      Mizzen topmast stay

7.      Main yard lift long tackle block

8.      Eye for top ropes

9.      Strops for jeer pendants

10.    Main yard lifts

11.    Topmast shroud stave

12.    Mizzen topmast stay deadeye

13.    Topmast shroud lashing and deadeye

14.    Main yard lift fall

15.    Main top rail

16.    Mizzen topmast staysail stay

17.    Mizzen topmast staysail block

18.    Topmast shroud lower deadeye

19.    Deadeye plate

20.    Deadeye lanyards

21.    Bolster

22.    Lower mast shroud eyes

23.    Jeer strop

24.    Main top gunwale

25.    Jeer strop

26.    Batten

27.    Iron plate for topmast heel fid

28.    Crowsfeet

29.    Topmast deadeye and futtock shroud plates

30.    Spritsail brace and main course buntline block

31.    Studding sail boom topping lift and inner buntline fall block

32.    Standing jeer block

33.    Bibs

[Martin W]

Jon -- The Model Shipways plans are much clearer than the Mamoli plans.  If you study the diagram in the MS plans of the tops, you'll get all the blocks you'll need.

 

As for the crowsfeet:  one difference between the tops you & I built and those in any rigging plan is that we put a ridge around the edge of the platform.  So, if you locate the center of the front of the platform, you can drill the first hole in the front of the ridge, then drill either 5 or seven equally spaced holes on both sides of that.  For now, that's about all you'll need to do, since the crowsfeet go in well after much of the rigging (it fastens on the forestays).  You might also just look at the way I rigged them.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1048-rattlesnake-by-martin-w-mamoli-kit-bashed-164/page-5

 

I like your solution for the stanchions.  And you really oughtta try soldering -- it's not at all difficulty if you get the pieces cleaned well.  You'll find it helps with making eyebolts.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

 

Martin

Edited June 12, 2014 by Martin W

[JSGerson]

Martin - The holes for the Crowsfeet I've already drilled without a problem. What I'm confused about is how and where the buntline blocks are attached to the platform. Mamoli shows them tied with a line that goes over over the rim right where the Crowsfeet is rigged and hanging below the platform. The MS plans show the same thing in a more simplified manner. If there were no Crowsfeet, I wouldn't of seen a problem. In the books which do show the Crowsfeet, the buntline blocks are hung further inside the platform with the jeer strop. I guess I don't understand what you were trying to say as to where you placed them.

[Martin W]

Right, Jon, if you rig crowsfeet, the buntlines get to be something of a problem, just because of the crowding.  You'll probably be better off putting them further back under the platform so they don't have to bend around the outer crowsfeet.  The only problem then, however, is that you'll find things getting crowed under there, so you'll want to try to rig the bunt lines before installing the mast in the hull.  Then you can leave the lines slack and tie them off below the blocks (I marked each line with a piece of scotch tape that I wrote on).

 

Cheers,

 

Martin