HMS Victory by mfrazier - Sergal 782 - 1:78 scale

[mfrazier]

41 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

Hiya mate,   how could I have missed the start of this  - my appologies,   anyway  I will  pull up a bunk and follow  along if I may.

 

OC.

Welcome. You certainly can. Feel free to chime in any suggestions.  You were a big help when I  built my Golden Hind. 

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

Y.T.,

 

I did read your log sometime ago when I  was researching. I remembered when I saw it again. I think the newer Sergal kit is much better but still carries a lot of problems with it they have never changed. I was interested in how you did the Wales on the side.  Whether or not you followed the instructions which are not like the real ship. I actually tend to like the plans in this area even though it is wrong.

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

I got the lower deck installed and planked. I used the 4 butt shift pattern.  I used a pencil to simulate the caulking  but I  am not really pleased with it. I tried it on this deck because it will be mostly covered and difficult to see much. It is satisfactory,  but I want something better for the  upper deck.  I am still working on ideas.   I still need to put a finish on the deck. My last model,  I used matte poly, but I  don't care for that.

 

I painted the upper deck supports white. The videos I watched on you tube show the supports white. I imagine that the gun deck was white to brighten it up. It would get pretty dark painted any other color. I  noticed many builds I  have read painted these supports yellow ochre.  I painted all the dummy cannon area flat black.

 

I am going to have to scratch build some of my stern gallery.  I don't know where these model companies get their ideas for things. This isn't a bad looking stern in the kit but it is off on the scale sizing and not much like the real ship. Also I  want better details.  Because of the differences in the design, the Shapeways decoration will not fit, so that will save a chunk of change but now I  may have to try and find a way to use the crappy Mantua castings. That will be a last resort and I still have time to think about this. Maybe if l  can scratch build the stern and get it closer to correct,  I  could use the Shapeways decoration.  We shall see later.

     I  keep looking ahead in the very sparce instructions to see if there are any other problems. And there are. The bow area up front is all wrong in the kit so it will require some scratch building. I don't really mind this as this was the plan anyway.  Basically I will use the hull and some other things . You could build a decent ship from this kit but it would be a poor excuse for the victory.  Oh, well , on towards planking the hull. It is starting to look like a boat.

 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

First rate work on that decking  very very nice  and good thinking painting the  knee's  white.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

Thank you OC. 

 

Mark...

[mfrazier]

When I  set up and tried to start the 4 butt shift pattern,  I spent three hours trying to figure it out. I laid a few planks and it would be wrong and I  had to remove them and start over. Finally, once I  got it started, it went okay. I  am sure most of my problem was the fact that I  have major problems with numbers since my stroke a couple years ago. I'm an engineer and I used to be able to do trigonometry problems in my head and now I  can't add 2 and two without a calculator and still get the answer wrong. It gets frustrating.  This planking method requires some counting, a lot of counting. 

[Old Collingwood]

4 hours ago, mfrazier said:

When I  set up and tried to start the 4 butt shift pattern,  I spent three hours trying to figure it out. I laid a few planks and it would be wrong and I  had to remove them and start over. Finally, once I  got it started, it went okay. I  am sure most of my problem was the fact that I  have major problems with numbers since my stroke a couple years ago. I'm an engineer and I used to be able to do trigonometry problems in my head and now I  can't add 2 and two without a calculator and still get the answer wrong. It gets frustrating.  This planking method requires some counting, a lot of counting. 

Keep at it mate  you will do it.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

10 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

Keep at it mate  you will do it.

 

OC.

Yeah, I  finally figured a shortcut to eliminate all the counting.

[Morgan]

On 4/3/2020 at 11:25 PM, mfrazier said:

It was pointed out to me that the Wales and planking are wrong in the Sergal kits. I had read this before, somewhere. I don't know if they have changed them in the newer kits or not. My plans are different than the real ship. On these plans, the Wales don't cut through the gunport lines nearly as much as on the real ship. I  actually like this look, especially if the ship is stained and not painted.  I also like the top half painted and the bottom stained. I have looked at all the builds I  could on the internet and YouTube for this ship and found many variations of the Wales. I  guess if it looks good to the builder it is ok even if not entirely accurate. I know I  don't want to copper plate the hull ( unless I screw it up so bad it has to be covered). I like the wood showing. I have wrestled with this part since I  decided to do the build and probably won't decide until I get there in building. I am open to opinions though.

 

Mark Frazier 

Hi Mark,

 

The positioning of the Wales on the Victory at present follow her 1765 plans and were installed in her 1920’s restoration, she has been re-planked many times over the years, including the Wales, and none of her ‘skin’ is original except possibly for a few Hook and Butt strakes below the main Wale. There is evidence that during her refit prior to Trafalgar that the Wales may have been lowered by circa 2’.  The plans for the Boyne held by the National Maritime Museum were based on Victory’s pre Trafalgar refit, and these show the lower Wales. So it would not necessarily be incorrect to go with the lower Wales. I’ve included an abstract of the Boyne below where the lower edge of the Wales is clearly denoted by the thick line, you can see a lighter line parallel to this one denoting the upper edge of the Wales running parallel, best seen if you look at the rearmost lower port where you can clearly see the Wale transects the port at its bottom edge as opposed to more towards the top as per victory’s current configuration.

 

Gary

Edited April 6, 2020 by Morgan
Typo

[mfrazier]

Gary,

 

Thanks for the information.  I think the image you posted closely matches the kit. I was thinking about this configuration if I  stain and don't paint. This info does tend to make me feel better if I go that route. Thank you.

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

I thought I would take a break from the hull while I try to find some finish for my decks. I need to finish the deck that is planked before I install the deck that goes above it.  Problem is finding a store that has it that is open. So while that is on hold for a moment, I  thought I would build some cannons. 

keep in mind these carriages are only about an inch long. They are nice and will finish up good. There are three pieces.  The sides and the bottom. Now trying to put these 3 tiny pieces together is an adventure all it's self.  With my big hands that shake, I  just about get the together and try to clamp them, the clamp misses or slips and everything flies all over the place. After several attempts,  I  got to find a better way. So I  make some little blocks to fill the space in the middle and bottom  and the clamp all together.  Then spot glue 4 corners wit CA , remove the blocks, and glue the seams. Worked great. Built 18 carriages in 30 minutes. Before this I  fiddled for two hours with one carriage. 

The above carriage with the barrel on is just sitting together to see how it looks. 

Next I will paint them,  add all the hardware, then the wheels and rigging. 

About the color. Does anyone know what the actual color of the carriages should be. The video tours of the ship I  see online show them bright yellow,  ( which I  don't care for) I  have seen them on builds painted different colors.  I was wondering what color the were in 1765. White, yellow, yellow ochre, and brown are the most common colors I've seen. 

 

Mark Frazier 

Edited April 7, 2020 by mfrazier
Spelling

[EricWilliamMarshall]

On 4/6/2020 at 10:07 AM, mfrazier said:

my stroke a couple years ago

 

On 4/6/2020 at 10:07 AM, mfrazier said:

It gets frustrating.

My sister had a stroke in her thirties. Similar constraints. It is hard to have patience...

[EricWilliamMarshall]

3 hours ago, mfrazier said:

Does anyone know what the actual color of the carriages should be. The video tours of the ship I  see online show them bright yellow,  ( which I  don't care for) I  have seen them on builds painted different colors.  I was wondering what color the were in 1765. White, yellow, yellow ochre, and brown are the most common colors I've seen. 

I don't, but I will hazard the following: most of the Victory models show a yellowish color. The cheapest yellow color in that time period is ochre (yellow or gold), so I would assume that.
But I'm ready for an expert to jump and correct me!

[Edwardkenway]

A lot of people do them red ochre, my carriages on Sherbourne are red.

My two pennies worth!!👍😀

[mfrazier]

Thank you all for the replies.  I figure on painting the bulwarks yellow ochre and at present am leaning towards painting the carriages  the same., I think.  I have that paint and it is hard to go get anything cause almost everything is shut down.

 

This is my opinion, but I don't think those scientists know what they are doing. I find it hard to believe  Lord Nelson went into battle with a pink ship. I don't care what name they give that color, it is PINK and I  am not painting my version pink, just saying, but obviously,  someone likes it.

 

This virus situation is  making ship building difficult. The normal places I would get supplies are shut down and mail orders take so long. Mail ordering has become so overloaded,  it is getting backed up and delayed. It is going to get worse. If more states follow Vermont's lead, which is stores are now only allowed to sell neccessary items. This will cause more panic buying. I am trying to anticipate things I need for this ship so I  can order them and not be sitting here waiting until God knows when. 

 

As I  mentioned,  I  will paint the bulwarks yellow ocher, but I  am still deciding whether the outside will be painted or stained.

 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

Yellow ocre  is the colour we all  know for the bulwarks and carriages,  but if you find the shade a we bit too bright you could always dull it a bit by adding a bit of white, its completely how you want to display it my friend  and how pleasing it wil be to your eyes.

 

I am loving those canon/carriages though they will look super when finished.

 

OC.

[GrandpaPhil]

I used a barn red on my gun carriages.

[Bill Morrison]

Mark,

 

I am very impressed with your approach and will definitely follow along!  Y.T.,  your Victory is outstanding!

 

Bill

[mfrazier]

Welcome Bill, glad to have you along.

[mfrazier]

I put the quarter deck on. It is ready to plank. I put gloss polyurethane on the gun deck, but I brushed it out so it was not overly shiny. I like the way it came out.

 

I been working on the cannons.  I decided to paint the carriages yellow ochre. 

I assembled one cannon,  but nothing is glued yet. I have small copper eyes for the carriages but I need to blacken them before installing. Still working on how I will do that. I  tried painting one but it doesn't work well. 

 

I will be adding axle details to the outside of the wheels. It is a slow process as these are very small to work with.

 

One of the problems I  see with some other builds are the use of the rigging blocks from the kit to rig the cannons.  These blocks look huge and out of proportion to the cannon. 

I ordered the smallest single and double blocks from Syren  for my cannons. They are just the right size for the cannons and terrific detail and quality. I also have little straps to go over the pivot pin for the cannon to the carriage, but they too must be blackened.

 

Mark Frazier 

 

[Bill Morrison]

I am impressed with how rapidly you are working!

Bill

[mfrazier]

2 minutes ago, Bill Morrison said:

I am impressed with how rapidly you are working!

Bill

Thanks Bill,

I'm retired and there ain't a lot to do at moment so I spend several hours a day working on my ship.

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

I thought I  would try making some rigging hooks. This was my first attempt.  I think the wire might be a little heavy, but it will fit in the small eyes on my cannons. I'm not sure yet but I  think the hooks will need to be perpendicular to the eye. I probably need to use some slightly lighter wire also. If I experiment enough, I  should come up with a nice hook.

[mfrazier]

Mark Frazier 

[Jeff-E]

Hi Mark

You are making good progress with her, for the hooks on the cannon rigging I used thin fuse wire to make mine on my Victory bow section

                                 

PS the blocks are 3mm and the tags on the eyes of the hooks were trimmed before fitting.

[mfrazier]

I got the quarter deck on and planked. I am very disappointed in the quality of the deck wood supplied with the kit. It is not consistent in thickness and the edges are too rough.  It is very thin also.

 It was a lot of work dealing with this poor quality wood. The results are almost acceptable. I was thinking of planking over this mess with some good quality 1 mm thick wood (which I wood have to order) but that will throw every height off 1 mm. I  will think on this a bit. What do you guys think?

I got a package from Syren today. I ordered a sheet of 3/64" thick Alaskan cedar  and the emblems for on the cannons.  The wood is to start building my stern gallery and the deck cabins behind the ships wheel. The kit supplied items for these are just not acceptable to me.

 

Mark Frazier 

 

[Old Collingwood]

Would your deck planks not lightly sand up  to smooth them slightly?   I know in real life they would have had a lot of abuse and wear and tear, I always wanted to achieve a bleached  aged wood affect on mine uisng the wire wool/vinegar jar system,  then a few coats of flat clear to seal it all in.

Not sure if that helps my friend.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

Thanks OC, I  thought about that aged look, and it probably would hide the wood quality problems better. 

 

I sanded the decks to mostly level and applied a clear coat of poly. I will buff them lightly with 600 grit and another coat of poly to see how they look. They actually look okay from 2 feet away. The decks on the real ship are not perfect. The quarter deck you see in the videos,  I  do not believe is original as it is too perfect.  The gun deck is a better representation of a 250 year old deck on the real ship.

I did not have a wider plank for a king plank so I  laid two planks tight against each other in the center to simulate the king plank. I  don't know how noticable it is but it was the best I  could do with what I  have available. 

 

I  used a pencil to simulate the caulking and left a tiny gap at the ends of the planks and ran a .5 mm pencil in them. I am not crazy about this method for simulating caulking, but it is the best method I know right now. These planks are too thin to use black paper. I would have done that had I  had 1 mm planks. I will give this a day or two to grow on me.

 

I have ordered Casey brass black for the cannons and some smaller wire to try to make smaller hooks to match the scale better. It should be here next week.

 

Mark Frazier 

 

Y.T. , I do agree with you about sanding.  You can sand to too much perfection and the details and character gets lost.

 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

To my eyes  that is looking fine - cant see anything wrong with that.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

3 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

To my eyes  that is looking fine - cant see anything wrong with that.

 

OC.

Thanks OC. I  think it will grow on me ( the last thing I want to do is to plank over it and cause more problems as with the deck height to everything else.) Besides,  after all the deck furniture and cannons are in, the deck may not be that noticable.  Lol.

 

Mark Frazier