HMS Victory by mfrazier - Sergal 782 - 1:78 scale

[mfrazier]

19 minutes ago, Y.T. said:

...and quality of your work is quite remarkable and work progress speed is just not believable.

Thanks, I tend to do that with everything I do. I pour everything I have into all my projects. Trouble is, I need 40 hour days to keep up with myself and all the projects. I downloaded your build log as I look at it often for reference and inspiration and ideas. I have book marked a half dozen build logs on here to refer to for ideas and solutions to different things. There is a lot of amazing work on here and I can only hope to work in that league of skill.

 

Mark Frazier

[mfrazier]

I though I better check the holes in the decks for the masts. I checked all the framework for the masts fit but forgot to check the decks for alignment before planking and finishing. Sure enough,  they are off about 1/16 ". I filed the holes a little to get the masts to fit in. It should be fine as the mast sleeves will cover the gap in the holes in the quarter deck. 

I thought I  would check a few other things while at it and I  remember.  I don't want to use the figure  head supplied. ( I see an order to Shipways for this).

The gap on the back is 1/2" wide. There is not one word in the prints or instructions about this item. I am smart enough to know that this can't be bent without breaking as it is cast. What were they thinking? I  am wondering what others who bought a Mantua kit did about this. 

I am not going to need it for a while but I  thought I  would check it. I have no idea what to do with it yet. I was going to use a die grinder and dress the details to improve it and maybe even use it, but now I not so sure it worth trying. Any suggestions?

 

Mark Frazier 

[Edwardkenway]

1 hour ago, mfrazier said:

Thanks OC. I  think it will grow on me ( the last thing I want to do is to plank over it and cause more problems as with the deck height to everything else.) Besides,  after all the deck furniture and cannons are in, the deck may not be that noticable.  Lol.

 

Mark Frazier 

I think maybe you  are right,  once everything is set on the deck and the masts and rigging is in place the deck will blend in.

IMO it looks fine as in reality it was a work space where everything happened and don't forget it was holystoned frequently. 

[J T Lombard]

Mark:

Isn't there another piece to the figurehead that fits below the piece shown in your picture?

 

J

P.S. it might fill the gap you show

Edited April 11, 2020 by J T Lombard
another thought

[mfrazier]

1 hour ago, J T Lombard said:

Mark:

Isn't there another piece to the figurehead that fits below the piece shown in your picture?

 

J

P.S. it might fill the gap you show

Yes and it is just as wide. I am stumped as how to use this.

[mfrazier]

I can usually figure anything out, but I  don't have a clue about this thing. There is no way I  am going to build the bow beak that thick. I just don't know. 

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

8 minutes ago, Y.T. said:

As figurehead looks now it is not usable. May be the intent is having the cupids sliced off and glued on independently?

It doesn't appear so. There is no dividing line to cut. I had heard their castings were useless.  I see why now. This thing is way out of scale also. Too big. 

   Maybe I should look into ordering the Caldercraft figurehead even at 1:72 scale it would be smaller than this one.

 

Mark Frazier 

[J T Lombard]

Mark:

Try this link https://www.shapeways.com/product/TXXHVWEET/1-78-hms-victory-figurehead?optionId=65820334&li=marketplace it might help.

 

J

[mfrazier]

1 hour ago, J T Lombard said:

Mark:

Try this link https://www.shapeways.com/product/TXXHVWEET/1-78-hms-victory-figurehead?optionId=65820334&li=marketplace it might help.

 

J

I have been looking at that. It is made to actual scale of the real ship, so it fits a 3.5 mm head of the knee. You are supposed to taper the knee down to fit. (The real ship does have the taper). I don't want to do it and basically can't or shouldn't because the knee is plywood.  Tapering plywood does not work well. My knee is 7 mm thick ( Mantua has no sense of scale). I am considering the  Caldercraft figure head. It is 1:72 scale but there is very little difference ( about 3 or 4 mm, and it is smaller than what I have. I think the Caldercraft is the best way to go here.

 

Mark Frazier 

 

PS ..... I may contact Shapeways and ask if he can change the width. They did it on the 1:84 scale. They make a wide version because the kits are not to scale.

Edited April 11, 2020 by mfrazier
Info

[mfrazier]

This is the ONLY photo or mention of the figure head Anywhere in the plans or instructions,  and the one supplied ain't that nice.

[Old Collingwood]

Dont foreget you still have to plank the beakhead  - that will  alter the thickness.

 

OC.

[Old Collingwood]

I think that piece just slots underneath the main figurehead  working with the angle of the beakhead  -

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

OC.,

     The plans and instructions don't say anything about planking the knee but I  intended to as the real ship is planked, I noticed in photos. I  planned to  plank it with thin strips. To fill this figure head,  I  would have to at least use 2 mm thick planks on each side. Isn't that awfully thick? Although that probably would make this monstrosity fit much better. I don't remember reading about the planking on the knee in other build logs. I nee to go back and check. 

     I also plan to put a strip over the edge of the keel and knee to cover the plywood edge.

 

I figured from McKay's book , the head of the knee tapers and the dimension for 1:78 scale is 3.5 mm at the front. I suppose I could taper this knee and planking would cover the plywood,  but that would defeat trying to use this figure head.  I never dreamed this detail would be this difficult to sort out.

[mfrazier]

9 minutes ago, Y.T. said:

Spacers for mounting cupids on real ship

Thanks. That photo helps a lot. I could actually use the top piece by adding the spacers. It still leaves some questions about the bottom piece. It seems they may have left it wide to go over the trim pieces on the knee but from the photos I  can find, it doesn't cover or cross them.  I am kind of thinking I  will order the Caldercraft figure head or the Shapeways one and then fit to which one is available. 

 

WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!!

I got more info from the box cover than all the plan sheets and instructions. 

The photos show the casting on the bottom. The top photo shows the piece crossing the trim. The plans show it on top the trim. Either way spacers would be needed on the bottom also.

      I am going to grind all the flash off and polish up the details on this thing with my die grinder.  I got nothing to lose and maybe it will look passable. Worst case scenario is I  mess it up and buy one of the others.  It  is a challenge,  and I  like challenges. 

 

Mark Frazier 

[Gregory]

8 hours ago, mfrazier said:

I  planned to  plank it with thin strips. To fill this figure head,  I  would have to at least use 2 mm thick planks on each side. Isn't that awfully thick?

You mentioned not wanting to sand the plywood, but if you sanded it, then covered with veneer, you might have something that would work..

[mfrazier]

Now that the figure head is mostly sorted out, I  need to get back to the hull and getting it ready to plank. I was checking some more things  ( with this kit,  you have to try to think way ahead) and found another small issue. The cardboard pattern for laying out the gun ports has two lines on it that line up with one of the bulkheads. 

When it is place where it goes, there are 3 or 4 gun ports that have a bulkhead showing in one side. So, I  have decided, I  will plank the top of the hull and then lay out the ports so I can keep and eye on where the bulkheads are. So far the only solution to this is to shift the position of those few ports about 1/4 inch to avoid this. I will lay them out and then see how it looks before cutting them out.  So much to keep track of.

 

On another note.  

I installed the framework for the stern cabins. I was going to cut out the windows and put clear acetate on them, but decided not to. Once the ships wheel, mast, poop deck, and stairs from poop deck , cannons under the stairs, and fire buckets are installed,  you can barely see these cabin walls. I am going to enhance the kit ones with the pillars, some trim and door handles. I will leave the windows either blacked out  or a white background as the space behind is empty framework anyway. There are a few more things to plan ahead on but I  am ready to start planking the hull.

 

Mark Frazier 

 

[mfrazier]

28 minutes ago, Y.T. said:

Mamoli plans are cryptic, very difficult to understand, often out of scale, have mistakes and discrepancies.

Mamoli must be relatives of Mantua. 

 

The lack of information requires us to constantly plan and look ahead.

Edited April 11, 2020 by mfrazier
Info

[mfrazier]

9 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Dont foreget you still have to plank the beakhead  - that will  alter the thickness.

 

OC.

I wonder how far down the planking goes. From photos, I see the planking runs in two directions (perpendicular), but I  can't find a photo showing how far down it goes.  ( maybe that is way other builds don't do it). 

[EricWilliamMarshall]

16 hours ago, mfrazier said:

I  think it will grow on me

I find for myself this is the case. I’m not usually burdened with the ‘prefect being the enemy of good’ problem though.  It looks good in the photos. If it continues to bother you, then think though replacement or augmentation, but my hunch is, the deck is just fine and given deck furniture, masts, rigging, etc. you will be quick happy with it. Let us know.

[mfrazier]

24 minutes ago, EricWilliamMarshall said:

I find for myself this is the case

I think now that the second coat of poly is on, it will be fine.

 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

1 hour ago, mfrazier said:

I wonder how far down the planking goes. From photos, I see the planking runs in two directions (perpendicular), but I  can't find a photo showing how far down it goes.  ( maybe that is way other builds don't do it). 

When I did my HMS Greyhound  I planked ontop of my keel  ans all the way up the beakhed  and even the rudder post, I use 1mm  strip (I think)

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

45 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

I planked ontop of my keel  ans all the way up the beakhed  and even the rudder post

So, after I plank the hull, ( first and second planking) I then plank the beakhead, down and all along the keel sides and up the rudder post sides. Since I  am not going to copper the hull and leave it stained wood ( at least that is the plan), but the beakhead will be painted black  ( I think), I have to decide where to break the paint  line. This is why I  am looking at all this early. Because one thing affects ten other things and I don't want to have a problem later because of a decision earlier.

Edited April 11, 2020 by mfrazier
Info

[Old Collingwood]

I did mine after I had second planked  - just small pieces of 1mm  strip.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

5 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

I did mine after I had second planked  - just small pieces of 1mm  strip

Thanks OC .,

  It looks like you taperd the front of your beakhead also. This helps me a lot. I have a much better idea of what to do. I think I  should break the paint line at the water line. Thanks again.

 

Mark Frazier 

[Old Collingwood]

7 minutes ago, mfrazier said:

Thanks OC .,

  It looks like you taperd the front of your beakhead also. This helps me a lot. I have a much better idea of what to do. I think I  should break the paint line at the water line. Thanks again.

 

Mark Frazier 

No problem at all my friend glad to help.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

These are the cabin panels supplied with the kit and they are sorry pieces of junk.

I was going to scratch build some with the windows cut out and acetate windows. I have the materials..... a lot of work but very doable.......but ...... upon looking more closely, you will barely ever see them once the poop deck is on, the ships wheel, binacle, fire buckets, and poop deck  stairs are installed and then a cannon under the stairs in front of the cabin. The space behind the cabins is an empty space so the windows should probably be white background. So I  thought I  would try something different. I don't know how this idea will be accepted. 

 

I designed panels on my computer, took about 3 hours, printed them out to scale on heavy photo paper and cut to size. The nice thing about this is I have  great details right down to the door hinges. I will put blackened brass door knob (rings) on the doors using eyes and rings.

installed temporarily 

Poop deck sitting in place. They actually look better than the photos.  I have to cut the sides down after the glue dries.  I like these and think I will keep them. The only change I considered was to  take some photos of the cabin windows from the internet showing what is seen through them, shrink them down and put them in the window panels before printing, but at the small size I'm not sure it's worth the  work. Maybe the windows should be blacked out. This is my first effort at trying this. Sometimes it takes a couple tries to get it right. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by mfrazier
Spelling

[Old Collingwood]

Thats a great move with the cabin windows/frameworks   they will look super  scratch built.

 

OC.

[mfrazier]

Thanks OC. I  think a combination of the printed and some scratch building would be ideal. I'm still working with this idea. 

 

Mark Frazier 

[mfrazier]

This is the final version of the cabins (I think). It is maxing my skill level I think.  I printed the cabins from my PC on card stock. I also put a really light gray tint on the windows so they are not so bright white. After printing, I  cut them out and cut little pieces of wood from .5mm thick left over mahogany planking from my last ship and glued each piece on the printed cabin pattern.  There are 22 little pieces of wood on this one piece.  After a very light sanding it is ready to install. I will not put a finish on these. This method is going to give me ,I feel, the best amount of detail and depth to the cabin walls. I like these but .... I  do think they could be better. 

Mark Frazier 

[Edwardkenway]

Lovely cabin bulkheads, Victory is coming along nicely 😁👍