DMC Cotton

[Wacom]

Reading various post’s about rope making I see that DMC seems to be the cotton of choice for many folk.

I am some what confused in that here in New Zealand DMC cotton comes in stranded packs used for embroidery and limited to 8 metre lengths.

My question is does DMC sell it differently in the states or am I looking at the wrong stuff?

Any help appreciated.

[Chuck]

They unfortunately discontinued there line of thread in most sizes that was used for rope making.  They used to make sizes 100 thru 10 in white and ecru.  Now you have to hunt for them on ebay second hand.  

[Wacom]

Thanks for that Chuck, now I can stop beating my head against the wall looking for it.🤔

[Jaager]

3 hours ago, nzreg said:

does DMC sell it differently in the states

It was over a year ago, but I bought some from here:

https://www.snowgooselace.com/product-category/threads/dmc-cordonnet/

[kimosubby]

Hi nzreg,

OK I'm at the other end of the world, but I make my own ropes and use cotton threads supplied via here https://www.empressmills.co.uk/sewing-threads/general-purpose-sewing-threads which seems to suit well.

Other materials are Barbour linen threads via eBay, they can be thicker but I use them for all my tying and securing seizing. It comes in different grades, sorry but I still, after 15 years, do not understand their sizing numbers. I just ask for the blackest, thinest and get 800m spools!

 

Aye, Kim

[Jaager]

Kim,

 

Linen is confusing.  The old unit was Lea    but I recently Nm  and NeC  have become more common

 

Lea   yds/lb  / 300

Nm   # 1000m/kg

NeC  # 840yd/lb

 

The key is + the larger the value the thinner the yarn 

 

The smallest I have found  is 65 Lea  -  it is yarn - plant fibers twisted into a line - it breaks easily during twist up. 

There is 100/3 Lea  linen thread -  it is 3 yarns of 100 Lea each twisted into  a single thread - so it is sort of the diameter of 50 Lea single yarn -but already scale rope.

 

40/2 Lea linen is two 40 Lea yarns  -  so a no joy if the hope was that it could be unwound and yield 80 Lea - even if yarn that fine would withstand the process.

 

One thought =  natural linen yarn is close the scale color of  hemp that is not treated with tar - half bleached and bleached would both want to be dye treated  but all are easily converted to standing rigging with a dose of dark walnut dye.   A diluted ( a lot) dark walnut gets running rigging color. 

 

It is my experience that supplies of natural, half bleached,  and bleached are more likely to be available.

 

The Baltic linen yarn that I have sourced  could stand better quality control.  There are bits of poorly crushed and  not combed out plant fiber in places that break under twisting stress.

[Wacom]

1 hour ago, kimosubby said:

Hi nzreg,

OK I'm at the other end of the world, but I make my own ropes and use cotton threads supplied via here https://www.empressmills.co.uk/sewing-threads/general-purpose-sewing-threads which seems to suit well

Hi Kim,

Thanks for this information, I have tried DMC Babylo and believe it will do the job, the world of thread Is a real minefield.  Here in NZ, Babylo is offered in three sizes with many different colours, but speaking to the supplier I am told that DMC havent made the smaller size in a long time, plus many of the colours shown as available arn’t.  Go figure🥴

[flying_dutchman2]

I want to start making my own rope and I've been reading as much as I can on cotton thread, it is what I want to try. 

Chuck mentioned that DMC discontinued there line of thread in most sizes and he is correct. I have scoured the Net and I can only find it in ecru in one or two sizes. 

 

So what is the alternative to DMC? Anchor? Mara? 

Is there anyone who uses cotton and what are the brand names? 

I am interested in only 2 colors and they are black and dark tan (or something like it). 

 

Any advice would be much appreciated. 

 

Marcus 

 

 

[Jaager]

11 minutes ago, flying_dutchman2 said:

I am interested in only 2 colors and they are black and dark tan

Marcus,

Is your fleet going to be vessels from post 1860?  If they are not, A dark dark red brown may be closer to what standing rigging was like.

I just looked up the definition of Ecru -  essentially it is the color of unbleached linen.  This should pass for running rigging and dosing this with

a dark Walnut Rit dye (or similar product) for standing rigging.  This would simplify your inventory to just one color yarn (if linen) or thread if cotton.

[BenD]

1 hour ago, flying_dutchman2 said:

So what is the alternative to DMC? Anchor? Mara? 

Is there anyone who uses cotton and what are the brand names? 

I am interested in only 2 colors and they are black and dark tan (or something like it). 

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

For Cotton thread, Arifil is decent enough. I use it for my rope currently. I buy it from https://bytownethreads.com/. they can get any color or size.

 

Gutermann Mara thread is synthetic but I've been testing it and am really liking it. There is no fluff or fuzz and it's not shiny like most synthetics. You can buy quite a few sizes from https://www.wawak.com/. 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by BenD

[flying_dutchman2]

@Jaager

The Dutch fleet I built is the 17th century. I never thought much of dyeing the rope but that is a great option. Thank you for the suggestion. 

 

@BenD

I am not ready for polyester. Chuck describes in too many steps of how to prepare this thread. I don't want to do that. To me it needs to be a simple process. Get thread, put in ropewalk, make line. Polyester maybe something in the future and I do like the many colors thet have. 

 

I will check the link and see what they have. What colors do you use? This is to give me a starting point 

Thanks

Marcus 

[Dziadeczek]

Anchor is just as good as DMC, if not better.

[flying_dutchman2]

Researched more about cotton and linnen and many sites just have one or two weights. It is difficult to find sites except for (www.redrockthreads.com) that have anything in cotton or linnen but many sites with polyester and in all kinds of colors. 

 

Been reading some other ship model sites and on a Dutch site modelbouwforum.nl many people use Serafil which is polyester. I've seen a model of the Prins Willem and all rigging is done with Serafil. Looks just like rope. I asked several of the builders if they cooked there rope and the answer is a No. All they do is make the rope, stretch it and put on ship. 

 

So I am trying out the Serafil. Will also check Mara and others. 

 

btw, redrockthreads is a huge site that sells all types of thread. 

 

Marcus 

 

 

[Jaager]

Buried back in some old threads are discussions of linen yarn sources.  Most obvious are Etsy vendors from the Baltic region.   Most is natural so that it looks like greenish hemp.  A problem is that the smaller diameter yarns have inclusions from being poorly combed.  A Byrnes ropewalk includes enough stress that the yarn breaks more often than not.

 

For nomenclature:  plant fibers< yarn < thread     With linen it is yarn = rope     with cotton it is tread = rope   

There is some some really small stuff from Western Europe that is three yarns twisted, so it is ready made rope.   The links are in the archives.  But who knows what SARS-2 has wrought as far as all of them surviving?

Which enforces my bias of picking one running rigging color ( half bleached or white if that is all that is offered) - buy a lot - dye it to make standing rigging.  

To me, rigging that looks like a piano keyboard just looks wrong.

[Valkyrja68]

Anchor is a comparable thread 

Also try Cosmo from Japan and Aurifloss.