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DMC Cotton


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Reading various post’s about rope making I see that DMC seems to be the cotton of choice for many folk.

I am some what confused in that here in New Zealand DMC cotton comes in stranded packs used for embroidery and limited to 8 metre lengths.

My question is does DMC sell it differently in the states or am I looking at the wrong stuff?

Any help appreciated.

Reg

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They unfortunately discontinued there line of thread in most sizes that was used for rope making.  They used to make sizes 100 thru 10 in white and ecru.  Now you have to hunt for them on ebay second hand.  

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3 hours ago, nzreg said:

does DMC sell it differently in the states

It was over a year ago, but I bought some from here:

https://www.snowgooselace.com/product-category/threads/dmc-cordonnet/

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi nzreg,

OK I'm at the other end of the world, but I make my own ropes and use cotton threads supplied via here https://www.empressmills.co.uk/sewing-threads/general-purpose-sewing-threads which seems to suit well.

Other materials are Barbour linen threads via eBay, they can be thicker but I use them for all my tying and securing seizing. It comes in different grades, sorry but I still, after 15 years, do not understand their sizing numbers. I just ask for the blackest, thinest and get 800m spools!

 

Aye, Kim

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Kim,

 

Linen is confusing.  The old unit was Lea    but I recently Nm  and NeC  have become more common

 

Lea   yds/lb  / 300

Nm   # 1000m/kg

NeC  # 840yd/lb

 

The key is + the larger the value the thinner the yarn 

 

The smallest I have found  is 65 Lea  -  it is yarn - plant fibers twisted into a line - it breaks easily during twist up. 

There is 100/3 Lea  linen thread -  it is 3 yarns of 100 Lea each twisted into  a single thread - so it is sort of the diameter of 50 Lea single yarn -but already scale rope.

 

40/2 Lea linen is two 40 Lea yarns  -  so a no joy if the hope was that it could be unwound and yield 80 Lea - even if yarn that fine would withstand the process.

 

One thought =  natural linen yarn is close the scale color of  hemp that is not treated with tar - half bleached and bleached would both want to be dye treated  but all are easily converted to standing rigging with a dose of dark walnut dye.   A diluted ( a lot) dark walnut gets running rigging color. 

 

It is my experience that supplies of natural, half bleached,  and bleached are more likely to be available.

 

The Baltic linen yarn that I have sourced  could stand better quality control.  There are bits of poorly crushed and  not combed out plant fiber in places that break under twisting stress.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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1 hour ago, kimosubby said:

Hi nzreg,

OK I'm at the other end of the world, but I make my own ropes and use cotton threads supplied via here https://www.empressmills.co.uk/sewing-threads/general-purpose-sewing-threads which seems to suit well

Hi Kim,

Thanks for this information, I have tried DMC Babylo and believe it will do the job, the world of thread Is a real minefield.  Here in NZ, Babylo is offered in three sizes with many different colours, but speaking to the supplier I am told that DMC havent made the smaller size in a long time, plus many of the colours shown as available arn’t.  Go figure🥴

Reg

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  • 1 year later...

I want to start making my own rope and I've been reading as much as I can on cotton thread, it is what I want to try. 

Chuck mentioned that DMC discontinued there line of thread in most sizes and he is correct. I have scoured the Net and I can only find it in ecru in one or two sizes. 

 

So what is the alternative to DMC? Anchor? Mara? 

Is there anyone who uses cotton and what are the brand names? 

I am interested in only 2 colors and they are black and dark tan (or something like it). 

 

Any advice would be much appreciated. 

 

Marcus 

 

 

Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman

 

Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better"

 

Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).

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11 minutes ago, flying_dutchman2 said:

I am interested in only 2 colors and they are black and dark tan

Marcus,

Is your fleet going to be vessels from post 1860?  If they are not, A dark dark red brown may be closer to what standing rigging was like.

I just looked up the definition of Ecru -  essentially it is the color of unbleached linen.  This should pass for running rigging and dosing this with

a dark Walnut Rit dye (or similar product) for standing rigging.  This would simplify your inventory to just one color yarn (if linen) or thread if cotton.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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1 hour ago, flying_dutchman2 said:

So what is the alternative to DMC? Anchor? Mara? 

Is there anyone who uses cotton and what are the brand names? 

I am interested in only 2 colors and they are black and dark tan (or something like it). 

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

For Cotton thread, Arifil is decent enough. I use it for my rope currently. I buy it from https://bytownethreads.com/. they can get any color or size.

 

Gutermann Mara thread is synthetic but I've been testing it and am really liking it. There is no fluff or fuzz and it's not shiny like most synthetics. You can buy quite a few sizes from https://www.wawak.com/

20211109_000612.thumb.jpg.03f411ccc170819130e1ca31bea88816.jpg

 

Edited by BenD
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@Jaager

The Dutch fleet I built is the 17th century. I never thought much of dyeing the rope but that is a great option. Thank you for the suggestion. 

 

@BenD

I am not ready for polyester. Chuck describes in too many steps of how to prepare this thread. I don't want to do that. To me it needs to be a simple process. Get thread, put in ropewalk, make line. Polyester maybe something in the future and I do like the many colors thet have. 

 

I will check the link and see what they have. What colors do you use? This is to give me a starting point 

Thanks

Marcus 

Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman

 

Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better"

 

Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).

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Researched more about cotton and linnen and many sites just have one or two weights. It is difficult to find sites except for (www.redrockthreads.com) that have anything in cotton or linnen but many sites with polyester and in all kinds of colors. 

 

Been reading some other ship model sites and on a Dutch site modelbouwforum.nl many people use Serafil which is polyester. I've seen a model of the Prins Willem and all rigging is done with Serafil. Looks just like rope. I asked several of the builders if they cooked there rope and the answer is a No. All they do is make the rope, stretch it and put on ship. 

 

So I am trying out the Serafil. Will also check Mara and others. 

 

btw, redrockthreads is a huge site that sells all types of thread. 

 

Marcus 

 

 

Current Built: Zeehaen 1639, Dutch Fluit from Dutch explorer Abel J. Tasman

 

Unofficial motto of the VOC: "God is good, but trade is better"

 

Many people believe that Captain J. Cook discovered Australia in 1770. They tend to forget that Dutch mariner Willem Janszoon landed on Australia’s northern coast in 1606. Cook never even sighted the coast of Western Australia).

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Buried back in some old threads are discussions of linen yarn sources.  Most obvious are Etsy vendors from the Baltic region.   Most is natural so that it looks like greenish hemp.  A problem is that the smaller diameter yarns have inclusions from being poorly combed.  A Byrnes ropewalk includes enough stress that the yarn breaks more often than not.

 

For nomenclature:  plant fibers< yarn < thread     With linen it is yarn = rope     with cotton it is tread = rope   

There is some some really small stuff from Western Europe that is three yarns twisted, so it is ready made rope.   The links are in the archives.  But who knows what SARS-2 has wrought as far as all of them surviving?

Which enforces my bias of picking one running rigging color ( half bleached or white if that is all that is offered) - buy a lot - dye it to make standing rigging.  

To me, rigging that looks like a piano keyboard just looks wrong.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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