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Welcome to my shipyard! Pull up a chair, 'cause I'll be asking for a LOT of advice as the build goes on

I got this kit on eBay for $75 including shipping. Being retired, I have to be a bit frugal, plus I know that this kit will end up costing more in terms of paint,glue and tools.

Here's the thing of it; the kit was started by the person I bought it from .You can see the extent from the pictures. The bulkheads seem pretty straight but if I understand it's purpose correctly, I'm not sure the rabbet is well done,particularly where it widens near the sternpost. It doesn't seem deep enough and should have been thinned down more at that wide stern area. It basically needs to be deep enough so that a plank sits flush with the surface of the keel,right?

If that's correct, I'll have to modify the rabbet but that seems like it would be difficult to do without damaging the adjacent keel extension. Think I ought to cut that and the sternpost off and then reglue them after I modify the rabbet?

The person who started the kit didn't add the waterline reference marks. From what I've read in the kit manual, those are basically for getting the bulkheads to the correct depth on the keel. Mine appear to be OK, so will I need those marks for anything else later on?

There's a piece of plank or batten attached, although I don't know why. Any ideas? I'll probably just remove it and add those as needed.

Does it look like there's enough "meat" left on the stern filler blocks to shape them properly?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice and suggestions. I've bookmarked several other builders' logs and will refer to those often.

 

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BTW-- I don't know if I'd call it a kit bash, but I'm planning on de-modernizing this ship to make it look more from the age of Baltimore Clippers. I plan on leaving off the radar gear, props, simulated rubber anti-slip pads, etc.

 

Any suggestions of other things I could omit or change?

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18 minutes ago, Brewerpaul said:

BTW-- I don't know if I'd call it a kit bash, but I'm planning on de-modernizing this ship to make it look more from the age of Baltimore Clippers.

I believe many POB II builders have gone this route. The modern gear does look a bit odd on a sailing vessel.

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I removed the keel and stempost to give me better access to improving the rabbet. I also removed the stern filler blocks which were pretty poorly done. Luckily I have enough of that basswood piece to make 3 new ones.

I discovered one problem and am debating on if it's worth trying to fix. Sighting down the center keel I noticed a slight bowing. Laying a straightedge on it shows a bow of about 1/16". I found that I can straighten this by putting a snug fitting block of scrap wood between two bulkheads in the concave part of the bow, but this brings those two bulkheads out of parallel. Which would be more likely to be a problem; leaving the bow,which is pretty slight, or correcting it and dealing with the out of whack bulkheads when fairing the hull?

 

I'm considering leaving the keel off until after planking. It seems that this would make fitting the ends of the plank easier,rather than fussing to get them to fit snug against the keel. I'd just sand off the extra level with the center keel and then reattach the keel. Anyone done a hull this way?

 

Another unrelated idea which sprung into my head at 2AM one morning. I am thinking of planking the deck with full length strips,scribing individual plank lines afterwards. Why not glue all the deck planks edge to edge FIRST, then make a cardstock template of where the deck will go, transfer that to my glued planks, cut and trim the deck and then just glue it down in one swell foop? Crazy,right? One advantage would be to let me securely attach things like the fife rail from below in addition to just gluing it on top.

I could even stain and finish the deck before gluing it in place. Just a thought...

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If you’re thinking about it at 2am, welcome to the obsessive modelers club  
 

I recommend planking your deck in the usual way, on the ship a plank at a time. Fit for one reason, but the bigger one is that edge gluing generally isn’t a good idea, hard not to wind up with glue stains

 

You should try to true up the frame. Would putting thinner wood blocks close to the bulkhead frame do it? The way you have it, warping a bulkhead would likely cause an asymmetrical hull once it’s plank and a far less desirable look than the bow being off 1\16th. The bow being off that little probably won’t matter, definitely not as much as the hull not being equal.

 

The rabbet at the keel should be enough that the first planking fits flush, but you’ll probably need to bevel the second planking to fit at the bow and keel. I’d leave the keel and stem on for planking but not the sternpost, much easier to run the planks bow to stern and cut them flush at the stern. 
 

The key step for the rabbit is at the stern. It needs to be thin enough so both first and second planking fit flush to the sternpost. Of course some of that is achieved by thinning the planks. 
 

Since you bought it used, if you haven’t already it would be a good idea to go through the parts list to make sure your not missing anything. I don’t recall any reference marks on my kit so I can’t help you there. 
 

I built this ship a long time ago, it’s a nice learning exercise, I hope you enjoy your build  

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Thanks Glenn-- you've sold me on abandoning the idea of building a whole deck off the ship and then fitting it. I had anticipated the glue stain problem and thought about staining all of the planks before gluing them together to avoid glue rejecting the stain.

I'll have to think about putting the stem and keel on before planking. A compromise might be to do the first couple of planks without the stem then see how trimming them works.  I'm not there yet though.

I kind of didn't think that slight bow would be a noticeable problem, but this is my first POB build so I wasn't sure. I think I'll just leave it alone.

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Slow progress, but I'd rather get it right. The keel and sternpost are back on my Pride after I've deepened the rabbet.

 

Every build log that I've seen says that the planksheer is too short, but mine seems to be OK. Should I be worried? I have no idea when this second hand kit was purchased, so maybe MS has fixed that issue. In my photo the planksheer is just sitting on the bulkheads, not glued yet.

I've seen some builds that add that first plank at the top of the bulkheads first, then adding the planksheer. Does that make more sense than doing the planksheer first? I think it would give a good reference plane for creating the planksheer overhang. In either event I plan to paint the planksheer,that plank, and maybe the first wale plank before installing them to keep the demarcations nice and sharp.

 

I added new stern filler blocks and have been shaping them. I've found it unexpectedly difficult to turn the 2D images on the plan into a 3D block. I'm not quite done with it yet but I think it's pretty good so far. One thing-- that flat area that slopes forward from the aft end of the stern has come out narrower than on the plans. Does mine look OK?

 

One more question. I'm surprised how relatively few laser cut parts there are, leaving the builder to fabricate tons of parts from stock. I'm OK with that, but not sure the best way to get the desired shapes onto the wood. For the stern blocks, I made a photocopy of the 2D profiles on the plan, cut them out, and traced them. Anyone know a better way?  Thanks!

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I’m concerned your used kit may be missing parts, POB was one of my earliest models, I didn’t have to scratch build anything. The plans should include a sheet that shows all the parts boards and the instructions should include a list of parts, Have you done a complete inventory?  
 

Photos in other build logs should give you an idea about the stern, I know my completed model is not that square. One thing about models, no matter the plans every stern winds up being unique

 

For the first planking you should start at the top and work your way down. I stop with 4-5 rows to go and instal from the garboard up. That area between isn’t visible once mounted so mistakes and filler can be handled there. For the second planking you can also start at the top, but common practice is to first place the first layer of the Wales (those reference marks maybe?) work up to the sheer, then down. The cap rail shouldn’t go on until all planking is complete and you’ve sanded the sheer smooth. I don’t add the cap rail until the inner bulwarks are also complete and to cap it all off, see what I did there. 
 

You’ll appreciate filler between the 1st and 2nd bulkhead, it will make planking easier.
 

Hope that helps. 

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7 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I’m concerned your used kit may be missing parts, POB was one of my earliest models, I didn’t have to scratch build anything. The plans should include a sheet that shows all the parts boards and the instructions should include a list of parts, Have you done a complete inventory? 

 

For the first planking you should start at the top and work your way down.

 

You’ll appreciate filler between the 1st and 2nd bulkhead, it will make planking easier.
 

Hope that helps. 

Thanks. I will indeed check the parts list.

 

I'm only doing single planking on this, unless I really screw up and have a lot to hide 😉

 

You mean a filler in addition to the nose filler? Easy enough. It just has to match the curve of the bulkheads,right?

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2 hours ago, Brewerpaul said:

doing single planking

These kits really aren't designed for single planking, the bulkheads are further apart (and less of them) than a single planked model. If this is your first model that'd be a stretch to pull off. The double planking gives you a much better looking hull when you're done.

3 hours ago, Brewerpaul said:

a filler in addition to the nose filler?

Yes, between the 2nd and third bulkhead and yes you'd fair the hull with it already there to ensure a smooth flow of the planks. If you haven't planked one before be sure to look around on the forum for a process that works for you. Bending and tapering planks to conform to the bow and the flow of the hull is both a process and a learned skill.. Both my Cheerful and Lady Nelson build logs explain the process I use, but there are many ways to do it.

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Checked my parts list and I DO have all of the laser cut sheets,complete. That still leaves a lot of parts that I will need to fabricate; transom, fancy piece at top of transom, pin rails, channels, fife rails etc. So, my question still stands-- how do you get the dimensions or profiles of all of those parts transferred from the plans onto the stock timber?

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Either by making a copy of the items, cutting them out and attaching them to the wood with some rubber cement and cutting out the wood from there, using tracing paper to make a template, or taking the measurements with a ruler or digital calipers And transferring that. All assuming the plans are to scale. 
 

There must be different versions of POB, I didn’t have to do any of that. Not going to be a common kit or a easy first build. Hopefully you can find a build log of someone using this same version of the kit and follow along. 

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Paul, I think mine was the same as yours. You have to essentially scratch build everything on the deck. I just measure the plans, make a note and transfer the measurements to the wood. I have my own quirky little system. I measure everything in 32s of an inch and make a note, ie: width 12, height 14 which of course means 12/32 x 14/32. If something is over an inch, my note reads, for example, 1-15 which means 1" + 15/32". Just be careful with the detail insets on the plan.  They are usually double the scale. I have been know to mistakenly build the odd very large hatch or two!

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14 minutes ago, David Lester said:

Paul, I think mine was the same as yours. You have to essentially scratch build everything on the deck.

That's what I thought. Like making dollhouse furniture. BTW-- I couldn't tell from your build log, but did you leave holes in the deck for cabins, hatches, or just  plank the whole deck and then cement them down.

I liked your idea of painting the planksheer before installing it, and I'm planning on carrying it a step or two further. I'm going to paint the first plank next to the planksheer black, and do the wales in yellow now. Maybe even paint the first plank below the wales black so I don't have to paint the borders between black and yellow at all.

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I always have an internal debate about attaching the deck furniture. I believe the better practice is to leave openings, adding supporting "beams" where necessary and install the items, all before planking the deck, planking around them. I have done that in the past, and it works really well, but this time I thought I'd try the simpler approach and I just glued them down on top of the planked deck. I think the result is not quite as good, but it's ok. It seems to work so long as you get a good tight fit accommodating the shape of the deck and you have to double check the height of the coamings, as they should be a shorter height  when glued on top than when installed before the decking goes down.

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Woo hoo! My first planks! OK, they're probably the simplest planks on the whole ship, but they give the model a bit of a shiplike appearance,rather than just a bunch of bulwarks. I did have to shape the part that went into the stem, and found that I had to fair the top edge of a couple of bulwarks so that was a bit of practice.

I'm not exactly sure what happens with the top few planks past the last bulkhead, so I've left that unglued for now. Do they extend to the transom and get butted there?

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Moving along slowly. I have the wale planks on one side, partially on the other. I'm finally getting a handle on how the stern will come together.

 

While looking for more builds of this ship, I came across this remarkable build. A working model of the original Pride by a guy who worked and crewed on that ship!

http://todd.mainecav.org/model/pride/building.html

 

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Got my wale planks applied. My well intentioned painting them ahead of time was for naught. I had to sand them to get them even, and goodbye paint. Still some sanding needed on them. Oh well...

At the stern, I got that staircase effect that other builds have had, with the planks not completely on top of each other. My fix was to add a piece of 1/16" plank where the jog was, then sand it level. Time will tell if this was a good idea, but at present it doesn't look bad. The transom should hide this fix.

I'm about to start planking band A and I'm wondering about edge gluing the planks. First, how necessary is this? I'm guessing that it's a good idea to keep the planks from flexing independently of each other while sanding. How would it be to install the planks without edge gluing, then running a bead of CA on the inside later on and letting it wick in between the planks to seal them? White or carpenter glue would also secure them.

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If you need to edge glue planks it’s because they weren’t properly shaped. Edge gluing is a lot more likely to cause staining than it is to retain planks. Hold them up tight to the one above when gluing and slightly bevel the top back edge. If tapered and bent to shape that’s all you need. 

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Band A is planked, both sides. As you can see, it's not a fantastic job, but I think I can tweak it into shape. Apparently my fairing wasn't so great, as you can see from the shadows cast onto lower planks. I know I'll be using filler on this hull, but for the worst dips I'm thinking of gluing in a piece of 1/32" and sanding that flush with the adjacent planks. BTW-- what do you like for filler? I've seen recommendations for that water putty. I've used that for other purposes, and it's interesting stuff.

For the planks that I've had to bend and twist so far, all I've done is run the part to be twisted under hot tap water, twisted it back and forth a bit with my fingers, then glued it. Easy.

Why are bands needed? It would seem with a good set of tick strips, you could just plank according to those rather than bothering with thread or battens.

I'm thinking of starting up from the keel next which will involve stealers. Why do they call them that, when they don't steal anything but actually add to a plank's width.

It's probably overkill, but once I get all the planks on, I'm planning on running a bead of CA glue inside the hull where the planks meet the bulkheads. I worry too much but I can envision the wood expanding and shrinking over the years with humidity changes, and springing some planks. In fact, I'm thinking of adding a coat of poly inside the planks to minimize humidity changes.

Oh, about that little plane. I started a thread on narrowing planks, which I was finding to be with just a knife and straightedge. Someone suggested Veritas mini planes, but those are pretty pricey. An Amazon search found this plane for all of $16 and it's a jewel. Right out of the package it produced pretty little curls of plank wood with no honing, although I did adjust the blade a bit. It made tapering the rest of the planks actually enjoyable.

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Paul,

 

One problem with single planked kits (just about all older kits were single plank) is that a few years down the line, as the wood responds to changes in temperature and humidity, cracks can appear between planks and they can warp so some edges are higher than the neighboring planks.

 

I solved this problem by painting the inside of the planked hull with a thin epoxy paint used by aircraft modelers to fuel-proof balsa engine mounts. It soaked into the wood of the planks and bulkheads and the whole thing becomes rock solid. This is much better than trying to glue the edges of planks, and a lot easier. AFter the epoxy sets (24-48 hours) you can sand the hull without individual planks flexing.

 

Here is a link to a build I am working on - started about 35 years ago and not a crack between planks. Post #2.

 

 

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Dr PR-- thanks for the epoxy suggestion,although I think I'll go with the easier polyurethane inside my hull after I reinforce the plank/bulwark connections inside the hull. Probably several coats for humidity protection.

 

Thanks also for the link to your fantastic,dare I say obsessive 😉 Albatros build. I bookmarked it and will refer to it as I progress on my POB.

 

What I'm shooting for is not so historically accurate as your build. I hope to end up with a reasonably well built and attractive looking Baltimore Clipper, for decorative purposes, and good enough to satisfy casual observers. Being from Maryland I want it to be basically the Pride Of Baltimore II, but I plan on de-modernizing it to a degree. I'll leave off the radar equipment, modern life rings,propellers etc. I may also change some of the deck furniture too, particularly the engine room hatch.The rigging in the kit is supposed to represent the modern wire rigging,at least for the standing rigging. I'd like to represent old tarred hemp, so I'll need new cordage and deadeyes. Can you suggest sizes for these for 1/64 scale?  I'll never be able to make the ship's wheel look like brass and wood, but maybe I can find one that looks good. Otherwise, using a tiller instead might be an option.

 

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Port side is fully planked sanded and has had first application of filler. It really does hide a multitude of sins!

I had to improvise a bit when I got to band C and D. I didn't end up with enough room at the stempost so I had to do a drop plank, and I had to do some patchwork planking at the stern. She'd sink for sure if this was a real ship, but sanded and filled it doesn't look bad.

I think I'll try to do my sanding outdoors in the sunlight in the future. It shows up small defects really well. I've read that applying primer does that too; what kind of primer do you folks use?

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  • 3 weeks later...

No need to show everyone all the filling,sanding,repeat I went through. Actually, my planking wasn't as bad as I thought it was.  Here it is with a couple of finish paint. There are a lot of little chips,dings, and other flaws in the paint which I'll fix.  Once I have the hull paint as good as I'm going to get it, I'll add a few brushed on coats of brush on polyurethane to protect the paint from further chips. Contrary to some builders' warnings, I got my green as a $4 sample of satin wall paint from Lowes. I also have some cream color from there for the inside of the bulwarks. I'm quite happy with the way the green came out.

My current task is to get a transom that I'm happy enough with to install it. Then I can add the stern knees and fix up parts of the sheer plank that don't quite mesh. As some builders have done, I'm thinking that sizing a good high res photo of the upper part of the transom with the PRIDE OF BALTIMORE II  and applying it to the transom. Maybe even the lower part containing Baltimore Maryland if I can tweak the yellow in the photo to match the color of my wales. I've already applied a shrunk copy of the Maryland Flag to the little stern shield.

 

 

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Quandry/problem time.

The quandry is whether to do the bulwarks or the deck first. It would seem that doing the deck before installing the bulwarks would be easier since the planks could overlap the planksheer during nibbing. On the other hand, I'm leery about gluing my transom (once I have the lettering figured out) before installing the bulwarks in fear of not having the top rail being level. One option I guess is to make a temporary partial aft bulwark,gluing the planks to the stanchions with rubber cement or just pinning them, to check how the height of the bulwark matches the transom. I've seen build logs where the deck was installed before the bulwarks, and vice versa so I'd appreciate some feedback on that before I proceed.

Speaking of planking, the plan shows the planks laid full length, with no joints. I'd imagine that would be much simpler, especially since I'm not sure of how much of the deck furniture I plan on using-- I'm thinking of leaving off or modifying modern additions to the POB for a cleaner deck appearance characteristic of period clippers using deck plans from  Chappell's book as a guide. I'd still like the look of plank joints so I'm wondering if simple pencil lines would be convincing, or maybe scribing the joints with my X-acto. Anyone used this approach on a ship?

The problem I'm having is regarding the masts and mast slots. I like David Lester's method of turning the foot of the masts down to a tenon,allowing rotating the mast for alignment once the mast is built. This was easy on my metal lathe.

Now, the mast slots measure 0.196" (all measurements plus or minus a bit) which corresponds to the thickness of the center keel plank. Measuring the foot of the masts on the plan comes up with 0.297"? Just do the shaping of the mast down to where it meets the deck?

Finally, my mast's as of now don't line up as you can see in the photo which was taken with the planksheers level. I believe the foremast to be true and the main mast is out of whack. My dowels are bowed about 1/8" or less at the center when laid on a level surface. In the picture, the curve of the dowels was placed fore and aft so it shouldn't matter in this view. The mast slots should be equal in the port/starboard direction since they come from the same piece of plywood. What could account for this, and how can I fix it NOW before I add the deck?376424233_20200915_0919311.thumb.jpg.e808679d18b0232876bb687be7fbf345.jpg

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I’ve never not done inner bulwarks before decking to ensure a clean tight fit. I use a laser level to true up the masts. Your problem is either a warped dowel than or the slot is off, not entirely uncommon in some kits. A leveling process between the table, the ship, and the mast is a common step to take. I don’t follow your measurement process other than it seems it’s over complicating things. I doubt an exact knife would do much, you might be able to fake it with a mini chisel  If that’s the look you want why not just cut the planks and lay them for real. Basic kits like this one call for full length planks only because it’s easier for beginners. It’s not hard to cut them, the only challenge is determining your planking shift pattern, which you musT do in advance of the first plank. You can lay full length ones in the center that will be covered by deck furniture. 

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20 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I I use a laser level to true up the masts. Your problem is either a warped dowel than or the slot is off, not entirely uncommon in some kits.  I doubt an exact knife would do much, you might be able to fake it with a mini chisel  If that’s the look you want why not just cut the planks and lay them for real.

Thanks-- I think I will cut the planks,making sure the joins end up on a bulkhead.

I'm not sure how a mast slot could be off in the port/starboard direction since it's just a slot in the keel covered by two scraps. Still, I'll investigate that further.

For the bulwarks the plan shows 5  1/32" (x16" I'm assuming) planks topped with a single 1/32x3/64" plank. Those are not in the kit,or even on the parts list. I'm thinking to just use one of the 1/32 x 1/16" planks turned 90degrees. Make sense?

 

On a pretty exciting note, I'm going to be helping to restore the actual Pride of Baltimore II!

Since she is not in operation this year, they can't have volunteers aboard the ship to help with repairs and maintenance. However, volunteers with the right tools and experience can still help restore her. They have something called Project In A Box where they will assign portable bits of repair work to qualified volunteers along with necessary finishing materials, etc to take home and restore.  I signed up and will be picking up a wood bench from their below deck navigation deck and am eagerly awaiting the the chance to do my share! Too bad it's something below decks, otherwise I could make it's miniature for the deck furniture of my in-progress build .  Here's the application, if anyone near Baltimore is interested;

 

https://pride2.org/volunteer/take-home-project-app/

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5 minutes ago, Brewerpaul said:

cut the planks,making sure the joins end up on a bulkhead.

There needs to be a false deck on top of the bulkheads and then the deck planks applied to that, not the plank applied directly to the bulkhead.  If one is missing from the kit I'd highly advise you to get some 1/16 basswood and cut one yourself.

 

Very cool about helping with the restoration.

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