Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[ClipperFan]

Rob,

As Spock would say "Fascinating!"

[Glen McGuire]

Whoa.  That looks like a busy freakin day yesterday!  Lots accomplished!

[rwiederrich]

5 hours ago, Glen McGuire said:

Whoa.  That looks like a busy freakin day yesterday!  Lots accomplished!

Yes indeedee……..

Everything is scratch built…..and all those finer details take time.  Design, construct, finish, install, weather.   That’s why so much time is required.  Thanks for the compliment. 
 

Rob

Edited July 9, 2022 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

Royal yard all blocked up now.  
 

Ready to add the sail. 
 

Ill get to that later.   Running to the beach for a bit of family time.  
 

Rob

[TheAuthorsDaughter]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:47 PM, ClipperFan said:

Glen McGuire,

Thanks for the generous compliment. I'm glad you enjoyed reading the manuscript. And to think my initial fear was finding enough information to support enough pages for an article. In hindsight, what I still find personally fascinating is how those concerns about how to describe our journey of discovery were entirely unfounded. Once I got out of my own way, the article literally wrote itself. It's particularly gratifying that you appreciated the exacting details our research took us into, such that even examining Glory's Grecian Goddess Athena figurehead led to our amazing discoveries. In addition, while Rob, Vlad and I were committed to realizing Glory of the Seas in as precise details possible, the granularity of our research wouldn't have been possible without the intercession of Arina "theauthorsdaughter" who directly involved her famous dad Michael Mjelde. His personal involvement, encouragement and generous collaboration in making his vault of amazing photos available to us, allowed our group to take the research to a whole new level. 

Rich - your fear of not finding enough info is exactly why my dad has the massive stash of info on Glory and keeps writing about her. It’s a dark rabbit hole one jumps down! Over the years people have literally come out of the wood work with never before seen letters or photos, etc. and it takes him to another project. He has  filing cabinets crammed with photos, journals and history for quite a few ships and has written and had published a number of articles  but Glory still pulls him to write more.  Sadly one book that never saw the light of day due to circumstances beyond his control was on the San Francisco waterfront. Before computers and word processors were ever available I used to assist him in typing and rough editing as he used to hand write and then type everything on an old 1952 Underwood typewriter!

 

It has been fascinating to see the progression of the collective project that’s being undertaken here by your group. 

 

Arina

[ClipperFan]

28 minutes ago, TheAuthorsDaughter said:

Rich - your fear of not finding enough info is exactly why my dad has the massive stash of info on Glory and keeps writing about her. It’s a dark rabbit hole one jumps down! Over the years people have literally come out of the wood work with never before seen letters or photos, etc. and it takes him to another project. He has  filing cabinets crammed with photos, journals and history for quite a few ships and has written and had published a number of articles  but Glory still pulls him to write more.  Sadly one book that never saw the light of day due to circumstances beyond his control was on the San Francisco waterfront. Before computers and word processors were ever available I used to assist him in typing and rough editing as he used to hand write and then type everything on an old 1952 Underwood typewriter!

 

It has been fascinating to see the progression of the collective project that’s being undertaken here by your group. 

 

Arina

Arina, TheAuthorsDaughter

I personally want to express my most profound gratitude to you, for your interest in Rob Wiederrich's progress on his Glory of the Seas builds and especially your proactive step of arranging for him and your dad to get together. It's no exaggeration to say that it was the turning point in our project. While we would have proceeded apace anyways, I have no doubt the accuracy of our builds would be nowhere near as refined as they are today due to the immeasurable contributions of your dad's historic insights and irreplaceable contemporary photos.

If you had told me on June 1st, 2009 a date which was my 24th Anniversary, that one day I would be regularly collaborating with the inspired author on two books about McKay's last Clipper, you could have pinched me because I would have sworn I was just dreaming. I remember that exact day because that's when I first decided to tackle revising Glory's hull to reflect the impressive Samuel Walters' painting which your dad wisely chose to debut on the dust cover of his first book. My wife Peggy and I were spending our first romantic overnight at The Stonington Inn and there were lovely nautical scenes everywhere. Sitting by the crackling fireplace, the mood was just relaxing enough that the idea of correcting the sail plan just felt right.

Thirteen years later and here we are. While I haven't heard anything yet from the editor of the Nautical Research Journal, I did my part by submitting a thorough summary of our group's continuing journey in time to meet their deadline. Should that manuscript be published and well received, my intention is to do a follow up article on the masting and rigging of Rob's and hopefully by then Vlad's model. Besides that, Rob and I are in the rudimentary planning stages of setting up a museum display when his vessel is complete. I actually envision quite an elaborate set-up, which I've discussed with Rob. Shoot for the stars, maybe end up on the moon....

The unpublished San Francisco Waterfront manuscript sounds like a fascinating project. I know I would want to read it. Maybe it can be found and published some day. 

Once again, thanks for your continuing interest in Rob's build group.

 

Best Wishes,

Rich

 

[BANYAN]

I have run out of superlatives Rob.  I hope you understand that my simple posts these days do acknowledge the wonderful model you are building; it just that you can only say superb, etc a number of times before the words themselves become mundane.  I applaud your attention to  detail and accuracy, and masterful creation.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[ClipperFan]

7 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Royal yard all blocked up now.  
 

Ready to add the sail. 
 

Ill get to that later.   Running to the beach for a bit of family time.  
 

Rob

Rob,

I echo Pat's sentiment. It will require access to a Thesaurus in order to source new words to express our awe at your elegant craftsmanship. Just reviewing the meticulous accuracy of your highly detailed Royal yard is stunning. This is even before you add in your brilliantly customized furled and weathered sails. It is indeed a wonder to behold.

On 7/8/2022 at 4:53 PM, rwiederrich said:

Ya know, that new forecastle actually balances the ship far better then before.  The aft carriage house is elevated, the main cabin is elevated and the original forecastle was not and it just looked unbalanced.   Now it looks symmetrical.    I like it.  
Good job remodeling crew.  
 

Rob

 

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, BANYAN said:

I have run out of superlatives Rob.  I hope you understand that my simple posts these days do acknowledge the wonderful model you are building; it just that you can only say superb, etc a number of times before the words themselves become mundane.  I applaud your attention to  detail and accuracy, and masterful creation.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Pat, I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your encouraging words. Thank you very much.  
 

I figure if I’m going to replicate Glory’s details accurately , they had better be clean, sharp, and reflect the emotions, her every photo induces in her admirers.   I’ve been studying her and researching her for over 15 years and I want nothing more then to do her right. 
Having the best researcher and historian on the planet (Michael Mjelde) as a personal mentor in all things Glory has made the adventure possible. Not forgetting my co conspirators Rich n Vlad.  

 

The 50 years of acquired God given skills helped bring it to reality.  
 

I just hope I can negotiate a deal to get her public exposure. She needs to be seen and not tucked away in my library.  
 

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob,

Mike's latest email asked me why there are no cavils on Glory's main deck bulkheads? I had no decent answer, other than to say "oops!" Then I took a closer look at his main deck plans, which I shared on post #3001.

Sure enough, he has depicted 4 cavils, port and starboard. There's a pair in the fore, opposite her fore companion and another pair opposite her stern quarter, just before the rear coach house, opposite her stern quarter hatchway.

You can clearly see the stern quarter cavil, as there's nothing to obstruct the view. The fore cavil is almost impossible to make out. However, looking at the call-outs on the plan view, I can make out the 4 cavils. 

Refer to Clipper Ship Captain Appendix and it's much easier to see.

I'm probably going to permanently seal my reputation as "the gadfly" of the Glory of the Seas but (you know there's always a "but") my actions are always done as an act of genuine affection for accomplishing the full authenticity of McKay's final magnificent clipper.

Edited July 10, 2022 by ClipperFan
additional information

[rwiederrich]

There are none because I didn’t install any. Cavils are old school , I know Mike drew them on his drawing, but I’m not sure they were on the ship.   This is another of those convince me if you can items.  
 

No photographic evidence. 
 

Boy…….I’m a pain in the rear.     
 

Rob

Edited July 10, 2022 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

There are none because I didn’t install any. Cavils are old school , I know Mike drew them on his drawing, but I’m not sure they were on the ship.   This is another of those convince me if you can items.  
 

No photographic evidence. 
 

Boy…….I’m a pain in the rear.     
 

Rob

Rob, your model, your choice. I will refer to the Crothers book for his position and will communicate back to Mike. Any further discussion, if something develops, will be in pm, as to not clutter up your board. Fair enough?

[druxey]

Hmm. The dictionary definition of 'cavil' is....

[ClipperFan]

4 hours ago, druxey said:

Hmm. The dictionary definition of 'cavil' is....

Druxey,

From Dictionary of Nautical Terms,

cavil: a large cleat for belaying the fore and main tacks, sheets and braces to. (see KEVELS)

[rwiederrich]

Began the sail on the topgallant yard 

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Rob,

In his latest message, copied to you, Mike included this impressive image as additional proof that the mooring bits on Glory's fo'c'sle were double wooden rectangular posts. Even though you had already replaced them, Mike wanted you to see indisputable evidence that you made the right decision.

 It's from 1922-23 and shows Glory of the Seas near the beach at Fauntelroy, Washington. According to Mike it's one of few scenes taken from above her. This confirms conclusively that you made the right choices, both by raising fo'c'sle height which this image proves and replacing iron mooring bits with double rectangular wooden ones, also clearly visible on her fo'c'sle deck.

In addition, her cathead locations are much further back then previous images led us to believe. Your previous measurements showed her first fairlead chock in her splash rail was 9' the second being 6' further back. Visual evidence made it look like the catheads were 4' back from the second fairlead. However, from this beautiful image, the catheads are about 12' back from that second chock. One, I wish this image had been available before I sent my Glory of the Seas plan view to Nautical Research Journal for potential publication; two and three, my large sketch has to be revised yet again, along with the plan view. It just goes to show as more accurate pictures are unearthed, we continue to improve and refine our understanding of her overall appearance. For now, I'm going to send a note to the NRJ editor explaining about this latest discovery and offering to submit revised plans. 

Meanwhile, it's my considered opinion that, when it comes to specific deck fittings, Mike is the undisputed authority.

Edited July 13, 2022 by ClipperFan
additional information

[Keith Black]

 What in the world it that at the mizzen top? 

[rwiederrich]

19 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,

In his latest message, copied to you, Mike included this impressive image. It's from 1922-23 and shows Glory of the Seas near the beach at Fauntelroy. According to Mike it's one of the few scenes taken from above her. This confirms conclusively that Rob made the right decision both by raising the fo'c'sle height which this image proves and replacing iron mooring bits with double rectangular wooden ones, which are clearly visible on her fo'c'sle too. It just goes to show, when it comes to specific deck fittings, Mike is the undisputed authority.

Yes...Rich.  What a treasure of an image...you can see the large excavated exit port where her once proud fore channel was....so men could evacuate canary and other equipment. You can see her fore mast is slightly vertical compared to more raked main and mizzen.   I just wish we could see into the bulwark cutaway or over the rail and see if there was a Kevel installed on the starboard gunwale.  What a beautiful hull....

Rob

[rwiederrich]

5 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 What in the world it that at the mizzen top? 

That was built for steerage.  The helmsmen could not see through all the construction...so they jury rigged a house and gear in the mizzen tops.  If you notice...the large boom like appendage coming from the mizzen, extending back over the top of the helm house....that is the wooden fairlead used to channel the ropes and blockage from the rudder post to blocks at the base of the mizzen.  Weird but doable if you didn't care about rigging and sailing impediments.

 

Rob

Edited July 13, 2022 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

You can also clearly see that the stern and stern railing was/were nearly a complete circle.

 

Lots of little details I will be incorporating into my model and further modifications.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, Keith Black said:

 What in the world it that at the mizzen top? 

Keith Black,

Believe it or not, that inglorious monstrosity is the relocated helmsman's location. Apparently all the added structures for her factory work blocked the helmsman's view entirely. So the Wheelhouse was elevated to the mizzen top. The final insult to a once beautiful, lofty Clipper....

[rwiederrich]

Doing a little work on the forecastle.  

[rwiederrich]

Looky there………..

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

58 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Looky there………..

 

Rob,

I applaud your willingness to stretch your understanding of what items did and did not go on a sailing Ship built over 150 years ago. Your cavils look very nice. I hope you won't have much of a challenge installing the last 2 just in front of the rear coach house.

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,

I applaud your willingness to stretch your understanding of what items did and did not go on a sailing Ship built over 150 years ago. Your cavils look very nice. I hope you won't have much of a challenge installing the last 2 just in front of the rear coach house.

Oh…..I fully understand what fixtures went on clipper ships.   Web’s famous clipper Young America did not sport these kevels and she was built some 16 years prior to Glory.   
 

My point, is there is no direct evidence these fixtures found their way onto Glory.  No concrete evidence but hearsay and speculation.  
I’ve already added the aft ones as well.  Still need to add the port side, once I flip the boat.
 

Im focusing back on the yards and fore mast …….so much to do.  
 

Rob

Edited July 14, 2022 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

I also added some interesting historical details found on the ship during her active years.  
 

Adding the large ropes(2 sizes) but not the wood planks as seen in the image of the cabin boy.  
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

11 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Oh…..I fully understand what fixtures went on clipper ships.   Web’s famous clipper Young America did not sport these kevels and she was built some 16 years prior to Glory.   
 

My point, is there is no direct evidence these fixtures found their way onto Glory.  No concrete evidence but hearsay and speculation.  
I’ve already added the aft ones as well.  Still need to add the port side, once I flip the boat.
 

Im focusing back on the yards and fore mast …….so much to do.  
 

Rob

Rob, since you've decided to take a leap of faith on those annoying cavils, if you like I can share images from deck scenes of Benj. F. Packard, a Maine Downeaster built in the 1880s which still mounted them.

You cite William Webb's Extreme Clipper Young America as an example of a vessel from a decade earlier that dispensed with them, as a reason to be concerned that it would be historically inaccurate to include such potentially anachronistic devices on a vessel launched years later. I have a theory about that...

Webb was from New York city. Meanwhile, McKay who settled in Boston, originally emigrated from Nova Scotia, a locale famous for their seafaring fishing boats. McKay strikes me as a "traditionalist" who doggedly pursued purely sail powered vessels long after Webb had moved onto steam powered ships. Knowing that fact and the simple practicality of traditional cavils, I'm very confident they were installed on Glory of the Seas.

[druxey]

Rob, I hate to cavil (groan), but the lay of your rope on the deckhouse looks very loose.

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, since you've decided to take a leap of faith on those annoying cavils, if you like I can share images from deck scenes of Benj. F. Packard, a Maine Downeaster built in the 1880s which still mounted them.

You cite William Webb's Extreme Clipper Young America as an example of a vessel from a decade earlier that dispensed with them, as a reason to be concerned that it would be historically inaccurate to include such potentially anachronistic devices on a vessel launched years later. I have a theory about that...

Webb was from New York city. Meanwhile, McKay who settled in Boston, originally emigrated from Nova Scotia, a locale famous for their seafaring fishing boats. McKay strikes me as a "traditionalist" who doggedly pursued purely sail powered vessels long after Webb had moved onto steam powered ships. Knowing that fact and the simple practicality of traditional cavils, I'm very confident they were installed on Glory of the Seas.

Rich...your reasoning is sound and I agree.  Though McKay and Webb, were both taught by Isaac Webb,... Williams father....they surely ended up having different ideas about clipper construction.

 

Rob 

[rwiederrich]

29 minutes ago, druxey said:

Rob, I hate to cavil (groan), but the lay of your rope on the deckhouse looks very loose.

Druxey...you are correct.  To mimic an historical even.

 

Rob