Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Rich could you be more specific concerning these shrouds you speak of.  Not quite sure I understand your usage of the work in this application.

 

Also did you notice in this image of her stern the bumpkins are removed.  I don't see them...since their function is no longer needed.

 

Rob

Rob, as my earlier post mentioned, I was incorrect about the mounting of the iron bars, they actually mount to another protruding shelf.

Bumpkins are clearly visible in Glory's fitting out scene. It would be not surprise that these devices would be cut off. It's really such a damn shame how shabbily poor old Glory was treated in her later years. If they had just maintained her yellow metal cladding, she most likely would have been proudly resting in company with "Old Ironsides" today....

[ClipperFan]

15 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I had originally thought you were talking about the chain plates...but I wanted for more clarity.  The chain plates which extend down from the lower channel that is bolted to the waterway are themselves bolted to the hull via prevented plates.  I'm sure the iron bolts used, pass through significant frames...such as the hull frames or a strake from of some kind.

Rob, I couldn't remember the name of those iron bars. Chain plates is exactly right. My apologies for the confusion. Still, when I do my plans of "GLORY of the SEAS" I will incorporate this line as it is historically shown on the Twin Packets, which illustration is credited to McKay himself. It makes sense that it also would align with the base of the Naval Hood too, though as Vladimir first discovered, it's visible along the rear Starboard Quarter in her 1869 Fitting Out scene.

[rwiederrich]

2 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, as my earlier post mentioned, I was incorrect about the mounting of the iron bars, they actually mount to another protruding shelf.

Bumpkins are clearly visible in Glory's fitting out scene. It would be not surprise that these devices would be cut off. It's really such a damn shame how shabbily poor old Glory was treated in her later years. If they had just maintained her yellow metal cladding, she most likely would have been proudly resting in company with "Old Ironsides" today....

The chain plates(Iron bars) pass through the upper and lower channel and afix to the hull.  I understand what you are addressing now.

 

Yes the images of her at her refit dock, clearly show the muntz plates and the felt removed.  I guess, they assumed she would only give them several years anyway...10 or so .  She was doomed from the beginning of her conversion.  It is now left to us....the adventurous model shipwright to resurrect her for posterity sake.  I'm so thankful for the trove of fine quality images of her that Mike has graciously provided us.

 

There are several other models of her floating around...but they all have her hull incorrectly replicated.  Rigging is one thing...HOWES double topsails was well in practice and easily modeled...BUT her HULL is all together another matter...THAT is who she is.

 

Note the stem errors in this contemporary model.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

The chain plates(Iron bars) pass through the upper and lower channel and afix to the hull.  I understand what you are addressing now.

 

Yes the images of her at her refit dock, clearly show the muntz plates and the felt removed.  I guess, they assumed she would only give them several years anyway...10 or so .  She was doomed from the beginning of her conversion.  It is now left to us....the adventurous model shipwright to resurrect her for posterity sake.  I'm so thankful for the trove of fine quality images of her that Mike has graciously provided us.

 

There are several other models of her floating around...but they all have her hull incorrectly replicated.  Rigging is one thing...HOWES double topsails was well in practice and easily modeled...BUT her HULL is all together another matter...THAT is who she is.

 

Note the stem errors in this contemporary model.

 

Rob

Rob, sadly, this is actually the best model I've seen on the Internet too. Perhaps there just wasn't sufficient access to images of "GLORY of the SEAS" as Michael Mjelde so generously shared with us. From the standpoint of craftsmanship, this is a beautiful & impressive creation. She's just in no way accurate to the genuine, lovely hullform of McKay's last Clipper.

Now you see why I say without exaggeration that you & Vladimir are creating the most exhaustively accurate miniature of this marvelous ship ever done!

[rwiederrich]

Well I spent a bit of time in the shop today and I finished up the addition of the planksheer trim and that of the main rail trim

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Then a bit of work on the starboard naval hood and scroll work below.

 

I through on a bit of black to get the feel of her..

 

Enjoy.

[rwiederrich]

As usual more sanding and filling will follow.....before I add the channels, and chain plates, and the forecastle spray plate/trim.

 

Rob

Edited July 16, 2021 by rwiederrich

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

As usual more sanding and filling will follow.....before I add the channels, and chain plates, and the forecastle spray plate/trim.

 

Rob

Rob, now THIS is a genuine CLIPPER SHIP worthy of the royal name "GLORY of the SEAS!" WOW!!! I am simply blown away by these glorious images. Excellent work!!!!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

17 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Having this example we can see in this drawing the area in question.  the item you are talking about is most likely the second deck area

Yes Rob I also believe its celarly post timber angle but i would say it is more complicated than that. Even Crothers bible ! is not showing one stern with full convex stern frames of latest era only very convex ones like on this picture. Thus i believe that bump is very delicate and almost impossible to spot certainly not visible from very far. as it Almost almost drive beautiful curvy line. but it is there therefore it is not easy to make it perfect on model even for bigger scales. ill try to photograph it today on my stern. V. 

[ClipperFan]

9 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Well I spent a bit of time in the shop today and I finished up the addition of the planksheer trim and that of the main rail trim

 

Rob

 

9 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Well I spent a bit of time in the shop today and I finished up the addition of the planksheer trim and that of the main rail trim

 

Rob

Rob, you mentioned earlier how you weren't fully satisfied with how your Stern was turning out. From the last view shown here, I would say you're doing a damn good job! 

I only brought up the post timber issue in order to be of assistance if you felt something was missing, not to be critical or cause concerns. As I've said confidently before, your "GLORY of the SEAS" is shaping up to be the best 1:96 scale replica ever created. I'm confident Vladimir will follow suit with his 1:72nd scale version too!

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Rob, we know Ruch and his determination. I surrendered many times before ( poking fun here) so we Can tell ourselves that we are not buidling POF models with futtocks :). :))) 

byt for the sake of discussion i put another layerof complexity to stern in hope that line Will be perfectply visible by sharp bent of planks.you can see in photos how. Lets hope It will work. 

[ClipperFan]

Rob, Vladimir, I went back a few pages and found more references to the shadow line that we've now confidently identified as the horizontal post timber. It's barely noticeable unless you know what to look for. In the sad scene where Glory is beached at Endolyne, take a close look at her Stern and again, below the sheerline is that line shadow which now can be seen to extend beyond just the Stern to her rear quarter as well. In fact, it's actually more visible on her rear quarter. 

Vladimir's uncanny ability to spot this same feature just by cast shadows confirms this very hard to catch feature has been there since the day Glory was launched. The 1869 Fitting Out scene also shows that, as I first suspected, while the wrought Iron chain plates do mount onto a 2nd shelf, for lack of the proper nautical term, they do indeed then bend below that device and mount directly to the Hull itself. Since Glory's verticle Timbers were all evenly spaced 28" center to center, it makes sense that there would be a need for a consistent horizontal structure to mount all of these critical chain plates to. Again, while it's just a thin line in McKay's Twin Packet sketch, if you count 5 lines down from the top of the Stern, there it is and it does stretch clear across the entire Hull and appears to terminate at the section which probably would be the Naval Hood on these actual vessels. For some odd reason, McKay jealously guarded this section of his Bow. It was a very successful tactic too, as practically none of our present day lines or models of McKay's magnificent Clippers accurately incorporate Naval Hoods or Cutwaters. They just show the bare Stem. That includes "Flying Cloud" "Sovereign of the Seas" and "Flying Fish." Even "Lightning" sketched by McKay himself oddly leaves this entire Bow area blank! It's a "pet peeve" of mine which I intend to set the record straight one day.

Enough of my rant on sloppy, inaccurate models and plans. Back to "GLORY of the SEAS" again, looking carefully at the relation of this shadow to her Main rail height just above, now knowing for a fact that the outer height of that main rail bulwark is exactly 4', including all moldings, the post timber does look slightly shallower, which leads me to believe it's 3'6" below, which not coincidentally aligns perfectly with the bottom of the Naval Hood, as Rob previously calculated.

I'm not saying anyone has to incorporate this fascinating detail in their model but if they could it would be just one more tribute to the very complicated construction technique of Donald McKay's Shipyard.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

10 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Rob, we know Ruch and his determination. I surrendered many times before ( poking fun here) so we Can tell ourselves that we are not buidling POF models with futtocks :). :))) 

byt for the sake of discussion i put another layerof complexity to stern in hope that line Will be perfectply visible by sharp bent of planks.you can see in photos how. Lets hope It will work. 

Oh looking at last Rich post i do IT worngly. Its Vice versa. So redoing IT.

[rwiederrich]

26 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Oh looking at last Rich post i do IT worngly. Its Vice versa. So redoing IT.

Vlad...that is a unique method to create the effect.  Great job.  I have a feeling your hull will be magnificent.

Greater detail can be incorporated in your scale.

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

7 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Vlad...that is a unique method to create the effect.  Great job.  I have a feeling your hull will be magnificent.

Greater detail can be incorporated in your scale.

 

Rob

Thanks Rob i should really start planking though still waiting for planks.  i believe such subtle detail is probabl even better obtainable bu sanding off finished planked hull if planks are thick enough to allow it. well...

[rwiederrich]

As I refine my model....I want to reiterate, that I am modeling Glory after her 1872 conversions...more precisely, based on her 1877 image of her in San Francisco.

 

Several key notes:  She was at the height of her glamor.....   She is sporting her major overhauls items such as the new *boy* cabin and the chicken house.  both items that rested over her existing main hatches, while she was under way.  She enjoyed greater stability with the addition of several more backstays added beyond her existing fore and main channels.   A guy boom was also added on her bowsprit to stabilize her head rigging.

  I won't even get into the rigging and masting changes at this time.

 

All of these significant changes were a direct result of an evolutionary process that happens when real world experience demands the changes for betterment and ease.  Structural and or esthetical.

 

It is key to be diligent in replicating the changes in the era or time one wishes to model their vessel.   I have seen far to many examples of models that interchange details of a vessel, not paying attention that one detail cannot be modeled, when that detail did not exist at the time of another specific detail.

I ran into that plenty of times when researching the Great Republic.

 

The Glory of the Seas had a varied long history and numerous mods to her structures.  She has to be accurate according to the time you want to model her.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the 
Gr

 

 

  

Edited July 16, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

31 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Thanks Rob i should really start planking though still waiting for planks.  i believe such subtle detail is probabl even better obtainable bu sanding off finished planked hull if planks are thick enough to allow it. well...

Yes...IF planking is thick enough to accommodate such sanding....that method can bee the easiest and fastest method.  I'm all about that.......

 

Rob 

[ClipperFan]

Rob, Vladimir, the best way I can describe this fascinating feature is to think of a sharp crease in dress pants. It's there but hardly noticeable too. It's tough to scale it but I will give it the old "College try." For Rob 1:96 scale, it's easier to calculate, since (1" = 8'), 1/8th" = 1'. So 3&1/2' = 3/8ths" + 1/16" so 3/8ths = 6/16ths + 1/16th" so 7/16ths" = 3&1/2' exactly.

For Vladimir, 1:72 (1" = 6'). So 1/2" = 3', that's easy. Here's where it gets more interesting, math wise. Half of 1/2", 1/4" = 1 & 1/2' so 1/16" = 1/2 of 1 & 1/2' or 3/4ths of a foot, just a bit more than 1/2' needed to be precisely accurate. 1/32" translates to 3/8ths of 1'. Now just shy of the 1/2" desired!

There's a scale calculator that I've seen before. It's probably easier to just reference that instead. Besides which, Vladimir might be more used to the metric scale too.

Edited July 16, 2021 by ClipperFan
math correction, sigh

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

As I refine my model....I want to reiterate, that I am modeling Glory after her 1872 conversions...more precisely, based on her 1877 image of her in San Francisco.

 

Several key notes:  She was at the height of her glamor.....   She is sporting her major overhauls items such as the new *boy* cabin and the chicken house.  both items that rested over her existing main hatches, while she was under way.  She enjoyed greater stability with the addition of several more backstays added beyond her existing fore and main channels.   A guy boom was also added on her bowsprit to stabilize her head rigging.

And importantly she had not yet received her freeing/spillway ports to aid in expelling wash from her decks.  I won't even get into the rigging and masting changes at this time.

 

All of these significant changes were a direct result of an evolutionary process that happens when real world experience demands the changes for betterment and ease.  Structural and or esthetical.

 

It is key to be diligent in replicating the changes in the era or time one wishes to model their vessel.   I have seen far to many examples of models that interchange details of a vessel, not paying attention that one detail cannot be modeled, when that detail did not exist at the time of another specific detail.

I ran into that plenty of times when researching the Great Republic.

 

The Glory of the Seas had a varied long history and numerous mods to her structures.  She has to be accurate according to the time you want to model her.

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the 
Gr

 

 

  

Rob, the 1877 photo is probably the finest image of this beauty "GLORY of the SEAS." The deck structures as revised will make quite an intricately detailed vessel as well. I particularly like the little walkway bridge that goes between 2 lifeboats from the rear Carriage House to the new Boy cabin. It will be a fun build to incorporate all those changes. Doubtless, the very finest modification is the extension of the originally small Wheel House to enclose the Helmsman (which I'm sure was greatly appreciated by those at the Wheel).

However, if Vladimir prefers to model Glory as originally launched, I found another, possibly more defined image of Glory fitting out in Boston in 1869. Actually, there are a least 5 freeing ports that I can count, plus 4 oval ports visible in this print. It's from a 1959 American Neptune Pictorial Supplement I, published by American Neptune, Salem, Mass.

Edited July 16, 2021 by ClipperFan
additional information

[ClipperFan]

Actually in the pamphlet, these images are in reverse order, 1869 Glory on the Ways is Plate XV and her Fitting Out scene is Plate XVI. I found my copy on ebay years ago. The light cardboard cover is almost impossible to find intact as it's quite fragile after 62 years....

Edited July 17, 2021 by ClipperFan
Grammar correction

[rwiederrich]

41 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Actually, there are a least 5 freeing ports that I can count, plus 4 oval ports

I misspoke......You are correct..there are 5 ports per side and the mooring hawsers as well.  I was reviewing many images when I made that delusional statement.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

I misspoke......You are correct..there are 5 ports per side and the mooring hawsers as well.  I was reviewing many images when I made that delusional statement.

 

Rob

Rob, I honestly believe by the time this project of yours is done, there will be 3 people who will know this magnificent vessel inside & out, better than any other people on the planet! By the way, am I correct in guessing that those neat oval ports are called mooring hausers? Do you think they might have been brass lined originally? They appear to have some metallic lining to them.

[rwiederrich]

Spent a little time in the shop and I painted and began to weather the hull.

Edited July 16, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

I then painted the scroll work

[rwiederrich]

A few more pics of today's work.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

58 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

By the way, am I correct in guessing that those neat oval ports are called mooring hausers

Yes they are........Good work.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

A few more pics of today's work.

 

Rob

Rob, magnificent! Each time you share your progress, I get more and more blown away with how accurate to scale this miniature vessel is to Donald McKay's "GLORY of the SEAS"! I hope "theauthorsdaughter" or even Michael Mjelde himself is looking in on your jaw dropping progress. This will be unmistakable as any other Clipper Ship. Wow.... just wow.

[rwiederrich]

34 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, magnificent! Each time you share your progress, I get more and more blown away with how accurate to scale this miniature vessel is to Donald McKay's "GLORY of the SEAS"! I hope "theauthorsdaughter" or even Michael Mjelde himself is looking in on your jaw dropping progress. This will be unmistakable as any other Clipper Ship. Wow.... just wow.

Thanks Rich.  I like to weather everything as I go.  I don’t just like to build the time frame of the vessel but also depict the wear as well.      I’m going to focus on the construction of the chain plates and channels next.

[ClipperFan]

47 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Rich.  I like to weather everything as I go.  I don’t just like to build the time frame of the vessel but also depict the wear as well.      I’m going to focus on the construction of the chain plates and channels next.

Rob, you do that while I go and prepare some popcorn. This is more exciting than going to a movie!

[Gregory]

Sorry I'm  late to this discussion, but when I see the pictures of this ship, and consider it is a "medium "  clipper, what is an example of a " large " clipper?