Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, that's pretty tough for your poor wife. Give her my condolences for her difficult loss. When your last living relative passes, there's a peculiar loneliness that's attached to it....

By the way, I heard back from Mike after he received my Glory scan. He's asked for some prints so that he can send one to Ron Haug. This could get to be real interesting.....

Thanks my friend.   
 

Please let me know about your drawing and Mike’s involvement.  
 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

5 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks my friend.   
 

Please let me know about your drawing and Mike’s involvement.  
 

Rob

Rob, when I have a chance, I will gladly email you a pdf of the new Staples scan. Besides correcting copywrite date, already done, I also need to darken certain elements which are barely visible on prints.

Mike relayed to me that he's still waiting for Ron Haug's response to clear proof that Glory's stern was definitely curvilinear and not round. I get the impression Ron might be a bit hard to convince(?) 

[ClipperFan]

43 minutes ago, BANYAN said:

You are creating some very nice drawings/sketches ClipperFan.  The high level of cooperative input will result in some very accurate renditions.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Pat, thanks, I appreciate the compliment. It is a work of love to promote the most accurate reproduction of McKay's last Clipper. 

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob & Vladimir, here's my preliminary sketch of the somewhat ornate front face of Glory's rear 'Carriage' house with her upper turned stanchion rails. MacLean's stats say this house was 45' long x 24' wide × 8' high. Pictures show the house had a roughly 3' overhang. Contrary to expectations, the turned stanchions are not strictly verticle, nor all evenly spaced. It appears the 3 central stanchions were 2 & 1/2' apart, the remaining 6 on either side were 2 & 3/4' apart and the last 2 were 1 & 1/2 feet apart, for a total of 12 stanchions in all. 

The 4 windows appear to be 1 & 1/2' wide and both door seem to be sliding, not pivoting and are only 2' wide each. The left side slid out towards the left (as can be seen in this photo. I would expect the opposite door would slide out to the right. 

At the base is a double molding, the lowest appears to be painted blue, the upper would most likely be white, being a raised surface. All recessed areas would have been pearl and highlights white. 

The left side of my sketch is inaccurate, done before I realized how truly narrow the windows and doors really were. 

So to make things easier, I cropped the right side & flipped it to create a corresponding identical left one. 

Great drawing Rich.  I’m going to use it for my own build if you don’t mind?

[rwiederrich]

Worked a bit on the channels by painting the port mizzen

[rwiederrich]

And I added all the starboard channels

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

5 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob & Vladimir, here's my preliminary sketch of the somewhat ornate front face of Glory's rear 'Carriage' house with her upper turned stanchion rails. MacLean's stats say this house was 45' long x 24' wide × 8' high. Pictures show the house had a roughly 3' overhang. Contrary to expectations, the turned stanchions are not strictly verticle, nor all evenly spaced. It appears the 3 central stanchions were 2 & 1/2' apart, the remaining 6 on either side were 2 & 3/4' apart and the last 2 were 1 & 1/2 feet apart, for a total of 12 stanchions in all. 

The 4 windows appear to be 1 & 1/2' wide and both door seem to be sliding, not pivoting and are only 2' wide each. The left side slid out towards the left (as can be seen in this photo. I would expect the opposite door would slide out to the right. 

At the base is a double molding, the lowest appears to be painted blue, the upper would most likely be white, being a raised surface. All recessed areas would have been pearl and highlights white. 

The left side of my sketch is inaccurate, done before I realized how truly narrow the windows and doors really were. 

So to make things easier, I cropped the right side & flipped it to create a corresponding identical left one. 

This is excellent Rich, brilliant ! those numbers are huge value for us. 

for the most part of the build i was looking forward most for this chapter. 

i want to highlight big big rectangle windows that remings more of a country or town house than vessel. so much light in an it must have been something. ! 

one tiny remark from me, i guess you little simplified roof layering - good fro 1:96 indeed to three even pieces itsa bit more compex and beautiful grooves there . probably not possible for Rob to recreate it...anyway thanks a lot Rich. 

[ClipperFan]

6 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Great drawing Rich.  I’m going to use it for my own build if you don’t mind?

Rob, Of course you can! I've been creating these drawings specifically so you, Vladimir and anyone else who wants to, can recreate this Clipper with the most authenticity.

I'm still working on a larger more detailed house and hope to have it done soon.

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

This is excellent Rich, brilliant ! those numbers are huge value for us. 

for the most part of the build i was looking forward most for this chapter. 

i want to highlight big big rectangle windows that remings more of a country or town house than vessel. so much light in an it must have been something. ! 

one tiny remark from me, i guess you little simplified roof layering - good fro 1:96 indeed to three even pieces itsa bit more compex and beautiful grooves there . probably not possible for Rob to recreate it...anyway thanks a lot Rich. 

Vladimir, When it comes to highlighting "big, big rectangle windows" you're going to be disappointed. Other than her two large approximately 6' skylights in her rear house, all other windows on Glory are on the small side. In a 45' space on the sides, it appears the few windows are tiny, about 1' wide each. That's deliberate, in order to minimize potential for water from heavy seas entering inside her dwelling areas. The same goes for doors. You'd think in a 24' house, doors would be at least 3' but from what I can tell, they were 2'. 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

19 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir, When it comes to highlighting "big, big rectangle windows" you're going to be disappointed. Other than her two large approximately 6' skylights in her rear house, all other windows on Glory are on the small side. In a 45' space on the sides, it appears the few windows are tiny, about 1' wide each. That's deliberate, in order to minimize potential for water from heavy seas entering inside her dwelling areas. The same goes for doors. You'd think in a 24' house, doors would be at least 3' but from what I can tell, they were 2'. 

Its tremendous help Rich, your contribution. Pretty Near convenient fór modelmaking I myself just také screenshot of IT scale it to my measures and i Can start making outline and paneling...

From the photofraph IT looks to me that Windows follows profile are not truly square but curved deck ríše towards center line  structure from both sides what do You think? 

 

[ClipperFan]

13 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Its tremendous help Rich, your contribution. Pretty Near convenient fór modelmaking I myself just také screenshot of IT scale it to my measures and i Can start making outline and paneling...

From the photofraph IT looks to me that Windows follows profile are not truly square but curved deck ríše towards center line  structure from both sides what do You think? 

 

Vladimir, great catch! You're right, it's subtle but definitely there. The base of the windows do indeed curve just so slightly parallel to the ship's deck. Which leads me to believe that so to will every other ornate element, since they would look out of place if they didn't follow suit.

Another element that I'm still not settled on is the true height of the turned rails surrounding the house. Illustrated at 30" they look too tall. I find it hard to believe but they might actually be shorter. I've been toying with the idea of being 28" or even as short as 2'. Perhaps on a ship it was considered effective enough just to provide a barrier to determine the end of the house itself? It sounds crazy when compared to our 3' standard for all upper level decks in America today but we're looking back historically and these rails were definitely lower than 3'. 

[rwiederrich]

10 hours ago, BANYAN said:

You are creating some very nice drawings/sketches ClipperFan.  The high level of cooperative input will result in some very accurate renditions.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Pretty cool huh?

Saves me loads of time..to have my own naval architect/draftsman on hand......😃

 

Rob 

[rwiederrich]

54 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

I'm still not settled on is the true height of the turned rails surrounding the house. Illustrated at 30" they look too tall. I find it hard to believe but they might actually be shorter. I've been toying with the idea of being 28" or even as short as 2'.

Rich.  By evaluating the height based upon the men standing by the rail...averaging in that they are probably around 5:8ish...and seeing that the rail bisects his crotch area....I determined that the stanchions are roughly 26~28" tall...adding the thickness of the rail itself, roughly 2.5~3"...you have roughly a 30" rail.  Could be slightly taller or shorter when including the rail base the stanchions are bolted too.

 

Definitely shorter then what we would consider today to be *safe*, but when you are negotiating  a pitching deck, you are probably bent lower or even slightly crouching to stabilize your movements. The aft rail around the poop and helm house follows the same dimension, based upon the average mans height.....evidenced by the men posing there.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

12 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Rich.  By evaluating the height based upon the men standing by the rail...averaging in that they are probably around 5:8ish...and seeing that the rail bisects his crotch area....I determined that the stanchions are roughly 26~28" tall...adding the thickness of the rail itself, roughly 2.5~3"...you have roughly a 30" rail.  Could be slightly taller or shorter when including the rail base the stanchions are bolted too.

 

Definitely shorter then what we would consider today to be *safe*, but when you are negotiating  a pitching deck, you are probably bent lower or even slightly crouching to stabilize your movements. The aft rail around the poop and helm house follows the same dimension, based upon the average mans height.....evidenced by the men posing there.

 

Rob

Rob, I agree with the logic of your evaluation, especially since there is a raised section that the rail is bolted to on the roof. What throws me off is the relation of rail height to width of the house below. The 30" rail seems to be taller and thus makes the 24' house seem to be off somehow. I'm going to experiment with 28" height to see how much of a difference it makes.

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

The base of the windows do indeed curve just so slightly parallel to the ship's deck. Which leads me to believe that so to will every other ornate element, since they would look out of place if they didn't follow suit.

I noticed that right away.  the curve of the deck is the establishing criteria for aesthetic lines.  The aft carriage house roof follows this curve...it is natural to assume any harmonious design would continue this aesthetic.  So we are looking at 4 doors and 4 windows.  I say that because in keeping with the harmony with the spatial arrangement of the forward wall it appears only logical to have doors on either side....there is ample room for them and the photograph surely shows the outlines of a door.  These door were push slide doors.  they probably sat in a grooved guide that allowed the occupant to push it out and slide it to the right along is routered slide.  I've seen this unique design on very hold houses, windows and interior doors.

 

Images show a similar design was employed on her main deck cabin where her donkey engine was stored after her major refit in the 1870's.  Doors on ships didn't *swing*....they slid to the side.

 

I don't mean to be critical of your drawing Rich, but I think she had 2 more sliding doors on her aft cabin (Corners)....facing the main deck.  What do you think?

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

21 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I agree with the logic of your evaluation, especially since there is a raised section that the rail is bolted to on the roof. What throws me off is the relation of rail height to width of the house below. The 30" rail seems to be taller and thus makes the 24' house seem to be off somehow. I'm going to experiment with 28" height to see how much of a difference it makes.

Remember...we cannot be sure of where these dimensions actually have their origins.  24' from actually where?  this corner or that edge?

 

That is why at times I rely upon my own acute eye to aid in aligning what looks right.

 

Rob 

[ClipperFan]

5 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

I noticed that right away.  the curve of the deck is the establishing criteria for aesthetic lines.  The aft carriage house roof follows this curve...it is natural to assume any harmonious design would continue this aesthetic.  So we are looking at 4 doors and 4 windows.  I say that because in keeping with the harmony with the spatial arrangement of the forward wall it appears only logical to have doors on either side....there is ample room for them and the photograph surely shows the outlines of a door.  These door were push slide doors.  they probably sat in a grooved guide that allowed the occupant to push it out and slide it to the right along is routered slide.  I've seen this unique design on very hold houses, windows and interior doors.

 

Images show a similar design was employed on her main deck cabin where her donkey engine was stored after her major refit in the 1870's.  Doors on ships didn't *swing*....they slid to the side.

 

I don't mean to be critical of your drawing Rich, but I think she had 2 more sliding doors on her aft cabin (Corners)....facing the main deck.  What do you think?

 

Rob

Rob, at first I thought so too but if you look at Michael Mjelde's rear house blueprint (Clipper Ship Captain pg 175) it only shows 2 doors with state rooms occupying both outer corners. What supports this is that while both doors definitely have arches, the embossed area towards the corners are not. 

[ClipperFan]

14 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, at first I thought so too but if you look at Michael Mjelde's rear house layout (Clipper Ship Captain pg 175) it only shows 2 doors with state rooms occupying both outer corners, where additional doors would be intrusive. What supports this conclusion too, is that while both doors definitely have arches similar to all 4 windows, the embossed area towards the corners are mainly rectangular. 

SZssse

[ClipperFan]

Rob, sorry about the Pete & repeat post, I thought the 1st one failed. It wasn't til later I saw both.

[rwiederrich]

29 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, at first I thought so too but if you look at Michael Mjelde's rear house blueprint (Clipper Ship Captain pg 175) it only shows 2 doors with state rooms occupying both outer corners. What supports this is that while both doors definitely have arches, the embossed area towards the corners are not. 

I'll re-evaluate...I'm still not truly convinced yet......thanks for the intel.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

Worked a bit on the channels and chain plates

[rwiederrich]

Now I need to paint and weather them.  
 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Very nice work Rob, she is coming along beautifully.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

Did some weathering

[ClipperFan]

52 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Now I need to paint and weather them.  
 

Rob

 

[ClipperFan]

39 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Did some weathering

Rob, you actually weathered the Starboard side before I even had a chance to compliment you on the clean work of installing the channels. You do such impressively quick yet effective work!

[rwiederrich]

47 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, you actually weathered the Starboard side before I even had a chance to compliment you on the clean work of installing the channels. You do such impressively quick yet effective work!

Making the chain plates was tedious  and repetitive.  But I worked fast and uninterrupted.   Now I’m going to make the mod chain plates and channels that were added after 1872.  
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

11 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Very nice work Rob, she is coming along beautifully.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Thanks Pat.  When I have uninterrupted time, I can speed along.

There is so much I do not include in my logs....a lot of back stage stuff...like the process in making the chainplates.....and channels.  Those were completed days ago in assembly line fashion.

 

I will now add the additional single channels and chainplates for her 2 additional backstays that were added during her 1872 upgrade.  The main chainplates are from round iron bar, where as the new plates are of flattened plate/bar with out the use of preventer plates.  the entire plate was bolted to the hull similar to plates of costal schooners.  Quick, easy and effective. They need to look intentional and have similar molding...but still look like an addition or afterthought (which they were).

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

3 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Pat.  When I have uninterrupted time, I can speed along.

There is so much I do not include in my logs....a lot of back stage stuff...like the process in making the chainplates.....and channels.  Those were completed days ago in assembly line fashion.

 

I will now add the additional single channels and chainplates for her 2 additional backstays that were added during her 1872 upgrade.  The main chainplates are from round iron bar, where as the new plates are of flattened plate/bar with out the use of preventer plates.  the entire plate was bolted to the hull similar to plates of costal schooners.  Quick, easy and effective. They need to look intentional and have similar molding...but still look like an addition or afterthought (which they were).

 

Rob

Rob, doing the additional flat iron chainplates, as well as extended wheelhouse with the fascinating central walkway to the Boy's House will definitely add interest to your build. 

[rwiederrich]

45 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, doing the additional flat iron chainplates, as well as extended wheelhouse with the fascinating central walkway to the Boy's House will definitely add interest to your build. 

Oh yeah.......my last build was her as originally built by Donald.....NOW...I'm stepping her up.  I'll have two models of her...one as original and one as fully modified.  Though there will be hull discrepancies(With old one), the deck houses and furniture will be to her original design.

 

Donald was a spearheader by adding catwalks on his deck houses....namely on the Lightning and on the Donald McKay.  Glory may not have had them originally...but they do mirror that of Donald McKay, as he was a visionary.

 

It made access across the decks far easier and was actually a staple on many DownEasters and the larger German Iron Square Riggers.

 

Now that I finished the channels and deadeyes......I'm going to work from the stern forward and begin work on the aft(Poop) carriage house and helm.

 

I will work the house but not glue it down...cuz I want to be able to remove it so I can work on the rail.  But I do not want to add the rail first, because it will get in the way of the carriage house construction.  I need the room and space to add the railing because it will all be one piece.  Its corrected forward stanchions, that are canted inward to allow for the shrouds and lanyards to freely pass to the tops will be determined with the cabin off the model.

 

Its going to be a back-n-forth operation.  Once the railing is established and secure......then and only then will I glue down the carriage house.

 

Oh.....I hope others noticed that the leading edge of the overhang of the house does have an ornamental carved bracket.  One on each side.  Campbell draws one out in his cabin comparisons in his clipper ship book of American and British cabin designs.  You can see the ornamental bracket just through the deck machinery of that photo of the deck house front. 

 

Rob