Glory of the Seas 1869 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - 1/96 - medium clipper

[rwiederrich]

Well I decided before I tear everything off and start over with black bands I will go ahead and touch up the red bands with a darker brownish red paint to see what it look like and this is what it looks like.Well I decided before I tear everything off and start over with black bands I will go ahead and touch up the red bands with a darker brownish red paint to see what it look like and this is what it looks like.

[ClipperFan]

Rob, in the various descriptions you read of Ship captains intentionally painting their iron bands bright red, do you think it might have been to enhance visibility at sea, possibly in fog or low visibility weather conditions? I rather like the more subdued red, which is probably more like the shade bright red would turn to after many months at sea...

[rwiederrich]

Well I got done finish painting and banding the mast so the lower mast are all complete ready to be finished as far as some of the boots and seats  to go into them but they will not be glued in at this time.  
 

I think this new band color is a lot more acceptable it’s more subdued but I believe it’s still represents the red banding that McKay used on this particular ship. 
 

Now I’ll let things dry and I’ll be prepared to start on the top mast and the heads and the doubling’s and just moving up the mast……..here we go.

 

Rob

Edited November 17, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, in the various descriptions you read of Ship captains intentionally painting their iron bands bright red, do you think it might have been to enhance visibility at sea, possibly in fog or low visibility weather conditions? I rather like the more subdued red, which is probably more like the shade bright red would turn to after many months at sea...

Some outlandish paint schemes and even printing on sails were made to make an impression.   The Dreadnought comes to mind .   
 

Rob

[BANYAN]

The overall look with the toned down masts looks great Rob; very nice!

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

8 hours ago, BANYAN said:

The overall look with the toned down masts looks great Rob; very nice!

 

cheers

 

Pat

Yeah...once I repainted them a more weathered oxidized red...they fit right in with the weathered hull.....and I feel better about them.  Now that I see them all together....the effect they exude is quite attractive.  The rest of the masts and yards will be stained and varnished in like manner.

 

I will paint the bottom and leading edge of the tops white...but leave the top/walking surface stained/varnished.

 

I will now clean up a bit, remount the hull, set it aside and use the Dremel vise to hold each mast as I construct it.   I'll treat each mast as a separate project.  Makes the construction go by much faster(In my head), if not in actuality.

 

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

12 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Some outlandish paint schemes and even printing on sails were made to make an impression.   The Dreadnought comes to mind .   
 

Rob

Rob,

Besides "Dreadnought" another McKay designed Massachusetts Clipper Packet built in Newburyport, one of my other favorites is "Galatea" which had a bronze painted hull and an enormous thoroughbred racehorse painted on her topsail.

[rwiederrich]

57 minutes ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,

Besides "Dreadnought" another McKay designed Massachusetts Clipper Packet built in Newburyport, one of my other favorites is "Galatea" which had a bronze painted hull and an enormous thoroughbred racehorse painted on her topsail.

Interesting, she is not listed as a McKay clipper....probably because she was listed as a *Packet*.   Small little thing...probably 600~900 tons, I would guess.  Captains had supreme rule on board and owners allowed them to paint,.,trim, them in whatever scheme that made an impression.  Many captains had controlling interest in their ships and so making such decisions was their privy.  Plus, as mentioned, they could be easily recognized from afar.

 

I'm truly not sure Glory had red bands during her 1870,s time period.

 

Rob

Edited November 17, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

In furtherance of gathering details of period details of Glory....I have come across a few questions.

 

I understand that the famous painting of Glory...the one Rich loves, (By Walters) has some details I'm not quite sure are accurate.  This is loosely based upon dates.

 

I understand that this famous painting was done by the artist who had personally seen Glory and thusly painted her as he saw her.  This , alone helps us evaluate her hull accuracies.  Rich...do you know the year this painting was done?

 

I ask, because she is depicted Without her additional backstays(which were added during her major refit in 1872).  She is not portrayed with white recessed chapeling, but fully varnished masts . And possibly a hint of red banding.

The painting does depict her carriage house to boy house catwalk. It appears she also has an iron anchor, but noticeably no gaff on the main mast . 

 

Now....on the other side, is the photograph of her in San Fran in 1877....where she clearly has a wood stock anchor, white painted chapeling and dark/black banding( suggesting a dark color, possibly black).  Clearly the additional backstays are seen. No stun sail booms are present, but her Howes double topsail crane and boom are present.  She has no stay spreaders and she has a monkey gaff on her mizzen as well as in the painting.

 

All of these anomalies cause me to wonder.  Lastly the photograph of her in San Pedro shows her without the catwalk?  Dating the image will help, since hogging of her hull had already been identified, making this image taken after her catwalk was removed, and in her later years.

 

Lots of questions.

 

Rob 

[rwiederrich]

I cleaned up the shop a little bit today and moved everything around getting ready to taper the masks.

I first made sure that they were all measured out properly and ready to cut them to the proper links.I first made sure that they were all measured out properly and ready to cut them to the proper links.

[ClipperFan]

5 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

In furtherance of gathering details of period details of Glory....I have come across a few questions.

 

I understand that the famous painting of Glory...the one Rich loves, (By Walters) has some details I'm not quite sure are accurate.  This is loosely based upon dates.

 

I understand that this famous painting was done by the artist who had personally seen Glory and thusly painted her as he saw her.  This , alone helps us evaluate her hull accuracies.  Rich...do you know the year this painting was done?

 

I ask, because she is depicted Without her additional backstays(which were added during her major refit in 1872).  She is not portrayed with white recessed chapeling, but fully varnished masts . And possibly a hint of red banding.

The painting does depict her carriage house to boy house catwalk. It appears she also has an iron anchor, but noticeably no gaff on the main mast . 

 

Now....on the other side, is the photograph of her in San Fran in 1877....where she clearly has a wood stock anchor, white painted chapeling and dark/black banding( suggesting a dark color, possibly black).  Clearly the additional backstays are seen. No stun sail booms are present, but her Howes double topsail crane and boom are present.  She has no stay spreaders and she has a monkey gaff on her mizzen as well as in the painting.

 

All of these anomalies cause me to wonder.  Lastly the photograph of her in San Pedro shows her without the catwalk?  Dating the image will help, since hogging of her hull had already been identified, making this image taken after her catwalk was removed, and in her later years.

 

Lots of questions.

 

Rob 

Rob,

I tried to find the date Samuel Walters completed his beautiful oil without success. The one conclusion I would leave open is the gaff spar missing on the mainmast. That's because the huge flapping main course being retracted can easily hide it. It's also likely that old wooden stock anchors can be replaced by more modern ones and back and forth based on availability at certain locales. I can tell from the early model red funneled Steamer to the stern of Glory that this is right around the conversion from sail to steam, as the vessel still sports two full sets of auxiliary square sailed masts. 

Since you correctly identified no installed extra backstays, we know the painting had to be done before that. We also know Glory is depicted with her extended wheelhouse, walkway to the boy's house and upper mizzenmast gaff. My educated guess is that this glorious piece of art was quite likely commissioned by the current Captain (Josiah Knowles, perhaps?) immediately after the inspired extension of Glory's wheelhouse. It would make sense, since very often Ship's Captains wanted a large oil to commemorate the vessel they were in charge of to grace their personal dwellings.

[rwiederrich]

12 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,

I tried to find the date Samuel Walters completed his beautiful oil without success. The one conclusion I would leave open is the gaff spar missing on the mainmast. That's because the huge flapping main course being retracted can easily hide it. It's also likely that old wooden stock anchors can be replaced by more modern ones and back and forth based on availability at certain locales. I can tell from the early model red funneled Steamer to the stern of Glory that this is right around the conversion from sail to steam, as the vessel still sports two full sets of auxiliary square sailed masts. 

Since you correctly identified no installed extra backstays, we know the painting had to be done before that. We also know Glory is depicted with her extended wheelhouse, walkway to the boy's house and upper mizzenmast gaff. My educated guess is that this glorious piece of art was quite likely commissioned by the current Captain (Josiah Knowles, perhaps?) immediately after the inspired extension of Glory's wheelhouse. It would make sense, since very often Ship's Captains wanted a large oil to commemorate the vessel they were in charge of to grace their personal dwellings.

So we need to ascertain the time frame of Capt Josiah's captaincy....to determine the approximate time frame of the painting.   Further questions arise, such as how many *Major* conversions did she undergo between 1870 and 1877?

If this image depicts her with the helm cabin conversion complete...and with the addition of the boys house and its catwalk(Not to mention the chicken house).....when did the addition of the additional backstays happen.....during what *renovation* did they happen in?

 

I was always under the impression that  during her *Major* renovation....she had the helm closed in....the addition of the boys house and catwalk....and the addition of the new backstays.  THAT sounds like a *Major* renovation to me.

 

If the painting was done before 1877...most of the items mentioned are seen in her San Fran image...cept the backstays🤪

Did the backstays happen after all the other items, but after the painting was done?

 

A couple questions we need to answer.

 

I only mentioned the main mast gaff because during the kind of weather depicted in the painting...a gaff sail or spanker would have been bent to it.  there is no indication of this.  It really isn't an issue anyway,

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, rwiederrich said:

So we need to ascertain the time frame of Capt Josiah's captaincy....to determine the approximate time frame of the painting.   Further questions arise, such as how many *Major* conversions did she undergo between 1870 and 1877?

If this image depicts her with the helm cabin conversion complete...and with the addition of the boys house and its catwalk(Not to mention the chicken house).....when did the addition of the additional backstays happen.....during what *renovation* did they happen in?

 

I was always under the impression that  during her *Major* renovation....she had the helm closed in....the addition of the boys house and catwalk....and the addition of the new backstays.  THAT sounds like a *Major* renovation to me.

 

If the painting was done before 1877...most of the items mentioned are seen in her San Fran image...cept the backstays🤪

Did the backstays happen after all the other items, but after the painting was done?

 

A couple questions we need to answer.

 

I only mentioned the main mast gaff because during the kind of weather depicted in the painting...a gaff sail or spanker would have been bent to it.  there is no indication of this.  It really isn't an issue anyway,

 

Rob

Rob, if only someone had painstakingly documented all of these revisions to Glory's appearance and had the forethought to write it all down in some sort of manuscript that could be easily researched.... 🙂

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, if only someone had painstakingly documented all of these revisions to Glory's appearance and had the forethought to write it all down in some sort of manuscript that could be easily researched.... 🙂

I'm only concerned with what I see in her San Fran photo of 1877.  We need someone to pull a Michael Mjelde and compile this documented remodeling info timeline.

I'm far too busy building her to allocate any time to sucha worth while pursuit.   At this time.

 

Rob 

[rwiederrich]

Before I get going full steam on building the masts I wanted to take a couple of comparison shots of existing photographs and my model.

Edited November 19, 2021 by rwiederrich

[rwiederrich]

Another.  

[rwiederrich]

Another

[rwiederrich]

Another

[rwiederrich]

Another

[rwiederrich]

Another

[rwiederrich]

Another

[rwiederrich]

Still another

[rwiederrich]

Yet another

[rwiederrich]

And lastly

[ClipperFan]

Rob, I have a feeling that Mike will be blown away with this series, as am I. This is total vindication of the many, many months long (well actually over a year) painstakingly accurate research we all did to develop the most accurate "GLORY of the SEAS" plans to date. As impressive as she is in images, she must make an even bigger impact in person. I'm so anticipating her loft masts and massive yard arms being rigged.

[TBlack]

Hard to tell which is the real thing and which is the model!

[rwiederrich]

10 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob, I have a feeling that Mike will be blown away with this series, as am I. This is total vindication of the many, many months long (well actually over a year) painstakingly accurate research we all did to develop the most accurate "GLORY of the SEAS" plans to date. As impressive as she is in images, she must make an even bigger impact in person. I'm so anticipating her loft masts and massive yard arms being rigged.

Thanks Rich.   
 

I hope Mike agrees.  I think she is a pretty close likeness myself.   I’ve worked hard to make her so.   And without yours and Vlad’s help, I would be no where near this far or as close to her true shape.  
 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

8 hours ago, TBlack said:

Hard to tell which is the real thing and which is the model!

That is the best compliment one can receive……..thanks TBlack.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

A great testament to your modelling skills Rob, and to the great research you and others have completed.

 

The only (very minor) point I have is that in one of the shots (midships on the upper deck), the base of the lower masts 'appears' a little thick compared to the photo.  However, that is likely due to the camera (especially in the lens qualities between the old and yours) which will drastically distort the perspective and create differences in foreshortening of that part of the deck space - I know you have measured this so is bound to be right.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[ClipperFan]

14 minutes ago, rwiederrich said:

Thanks Rich.   
 

I hope Mike agrees.  I think she is a pretty close likeness myself.   I’ve worked hard to make her so.   And without yours and Vlad’s help, I would be no where near this far or as close to her true shape.  
 

Rob

Rob, high praise indeed! I am honored. My apologies too for the sometimes "gadfly" approach I took in the pursuit of meticulous accuracy. Without doubt, we can all be proud of the results we have attained. This has been quite an amazing journey in our mutual attempts to be true to McKay's final masterpiece. Vlad's brilliant computer and bulkhead work certainly helped in accellerating your projects.