Golden Hind 1575 by bosco72 - Airfix Classic - 1:72 - first ever model build

[rkwz]

Use beeswax, works wonders for rigging

[bosco72]

59 minutes ago, rkwz said:

Use beeswax, works wonders for rigging

Thank you for this, I too have read about beeswax. My findings for beeswax is for softening the thread to make more usable. I'm looking for something to try and keep it in place as it is wound round the thicker thread. Or does beeswax achieve both? Thanks. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by bosco72

[bosco72]

Doing some tidying up, don't think I'll get round to any of these this year. My next one I think will be the Mayflower, not brave enough for the others. 

[rkwz]

9 hours ago, bosco72 said:

Thank you for this, I too have read about beeswax. My findings for beeswax is for softening the thread to make more usable. I'm looking for something to try and keep it in place as it is wound round the thicker thread. Or does beeswax achieve both? Thanks. 

Just run the thread through a beeswax block, it should melt and absorb pretty easily. The wax will stiffen but allow it to stay wound. There should be lots of YouTube videos around to watch. 

 

Cheers,

 

 

[bosco72]

49 minutes ago, rkwz said:

Just run the thread through a beeswax block, it should melt and absorb pretty easily. The wax will stiffen but allow it to stay wound. There should be lots of YouTube videos around to watch. 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Been struggling with this a lot, thank you hope it helps. Got some on order. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by bosco72

[bosco72]

Made a start on the shrouds, going to attempt to do them myself, no rig/jig tool in sight. 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by bosco72

[bosco72]

Have to park work on this build for a couple of weeks, as my space has been taken back for the Christmas period (been asked nicely to vacate the kitchen) so on the shelf it goes, I have the end in sight, will be very sad when this is complete, and very tempted to get another and take it in a different direction. This is where I'm up to. 

 

Have a great Christmas all. (if that is your thing) 

 

[bosco72]

I was thinking of adding lanterns in various places, I was looking to see if you can buy them at that scale and what style would be acceptable. I'm also happy to have a go at making some. Thanks for any advice. 

[kirill4]

Good day,

Dear bosco72,

Studing your model pictures I saw You did your standing rigging in some  wrong way...

sorry for that stupid question,may be You did it in purpose or why?

*it looks like You did all shrouds and stays of the same thickness( sizes),normaly they must be different in sizes!

*wrong way of location shrouds loops and stays...normaly it should be  secured above tops plarform,on the mast tops, but You placed them  under top platforms...

   If there is intention to make rigging in more right /correct way, I would like to recommend You to read this easy for reading  books( Anderson and Mondfeld), in this books You could found condenced information practically regarding each important rope of rigging of 16- 17 centure vessel.

   A  few readen pages will serve you very good when You will be busy with  rigging your model.

 There You could find information about purpose and sizes of each important ropes and rigs of the old fasion vessel as well as tables( in Mondfeld book) with rope sizes in proportions to rigs/or main mast dimension/ diam.

  Below I gave some simplified picture with precalculated rigging rope sizes, calculation based on information from this books.

 There is exell table for automatic calculation ropes sizes of standing rigging as well

Main stay size( diam) calculated in proportion to main mast diam.

0.166 of main mast , all other ropes sizes calculation based on main stay diam.

Wish You all the Best!

Kirill

on the pictures dimensions given in mm

roughly says , they could be used for the your model scale, strait from pictures

 

standing rigging thickness.xls

[kirill4]

Oh!:)))

Right here ,this forum 

 

[bosco72]

1 hour ago, kirill4 said:

Good day,

Dear bosco72,

Studing your model pictures I saw You did your standing rigging in some  wrong way...

sorry for that stupid question,may be You did it in purpose or why?

*it looks like You did all shrouds and stays of the same thickness( sizes),normaly they must be different in sizes!

*wrong way of location shrouds loops and stays...normaly it should be  secured above tops plarform,on the mast tops, but You placed them  under top platforms...

   If there is intention to make rigging in more right /correct way, I would like to recommend You to read this easy for reading  books( Anderson and Mondfeld), in this books You could found condenced information practically regarding each important rope of rigging of 16- 17 centure vessel.

   A  few readen pages will serve you very good when You will be busy with  rigging your model.

 There You could find information about purpose and sizes of each important ropes and rigs of the old fasion vessel as well as tables( in Mondfeld book) with rope sizes in proportions to rigs/or main mast dimension/ diam.

  Below I gave some simplified picture with precalculated rigging rope sizes, calculation based on information from this books.

 There is exell table for automatic calculation ropes sizes of standing rigging as well

Main stay size( diam) calculated in proportion to main mast diam.

0.166 of main mast , all other ropes sizes calculation based on main stay diam.

Wish You all the Best!

Kirill

on the pictures dimensions given in mm

roughly says , they could be used for the your model scale, strait from pictures

 

standing rigging thickness.xls 20.5 kB · 0 downloads

Really appreciate the info and the interest and definately will give this a good read. More than happy to get as much data as possible. At this point in the build I will probably go with what I have, I decided a little way back in the build I was going prioritise enjoying this first build and not get too bogged down in accuracy. This was more of a 'am I going to enjoy this or not?' question to myself, can I paint, do I have the patience, do I have an eye for detail, am i creative outside of computer software. I am endlessly greatful for everyone who gets involved in this build. I have definately decided to do this build again when I have gained some experience and hopefully some skill, so I can compare the two. This info will help immensely. Thank you. 

[bosco72]

Here is a link to an online version of the above book, 'historic ship models' you don't have to sign up for anything, you can access the full book online. Just keep scrolling. If you want a copy you will have to sign up. I might buy this book as it is very informative. Thank you to kirill4. 

 

[Nirvana]

2 hours ago, bosco72 said:

Here is a link to an online version of the above book, 'historic ship models' you don't have to sign up for anything, you can access the full book online. Just keep scrolling. If you want a copy you will have to sign up. I might buy this book as it is very informative. Thank you to kirill4. 

 

Bosco, I have removed the link due to copyright infringement.

The content  ranges from a majority of dull documents to a number of copyrighted books, fiction and non-fiction alike. There are two sides to the problem: First, this site provides the means to upload copyrighted material without “editorial interference or approval”, thus creating financial damage to the publishing industry.

 

[bosco72]

2 hours ago, Nirvana said:

 

Bosco, I have removed the link due to copyright infringement.

The content  ranges from a majority of dull documents to a number of copyrighted books, fiction and non-fiction alike. There are two sides to the problem: First, this site provides the means to upload copyrighted material without “editorial interference or approval”, thus creating financial damage to the publishing industry.

 

No problem, I wasn't aware. I asumemed it was out of print. Apologies. 

[kirill4]

Dear bosco72,

Thanks for the link!  I see there are more interesting books  available , Thanks!

    Regarding your model, my remarks most probably just about  one of your  "...do I have an eye for detail..."   

in this particular case - details of rigging, I could say, basic rigging details

Actually there are a few basic rules for making correct rigging, there is a certain sequence in rigging which need to be followed.

    I think making rigging according  these rules will be not more complicated(I mean time consuming and manipulations with treads) job than You already did now ,with installed shrouds and stays , in this part which You shown us.

    The only difference will be in corectness, from this point of vew , may be there is sense to start making rigging in correct way strait from begining, don't spend time for irregularities,

irregularities which need to be corrected  later on , on the next model? or they could be learned like first experience and than reproduced on the other models again ? :)))

I understand we make a lot of simplifications in plastic model rigging, but general rigging appearance on the model should be correct by my opinion...at least it should be interesting to make it correct way not less than... accurate assembling or painting for example...:)?

   I remember , before start rigging  my model ( let's say first and only one my model where I tried to understand galleon rigging,how it could be arranged, how should it work...and reproduce my "understandings " in model rigging :)))) I 've spent a few weeks to read R.C. Anderson book(book which I knew a few days before start galleon project), and later on start making my rigging plan on paper follow information page by page from this book, and third stage it was making model rigging...which is continue till present time :)))

 Sorry for that lirics

Back to your model,

I think book of R.C. Anderson will be more suitable for galleon rigging than Mondfeld book which is almost about everything in model making and nessesary information need to be trawled, in this respect Anderson talking more specific about 16-17 rigging.

In my opinion Mondfeld could second source of information in priority...

[kirill4]

there are a few pictures of museum 's Vasa rigging reconstruction - You could see positions of the shrouds and stays loops above masts tops ... more or less similar rigging arrangements could be reproduced on the GH model ... just will be less sails and ropes, but basic remains the same!

7_b rigg rekons.pdf 6_b riggfästen mm.pdf

[rkwz]

Excellent advice as always, @kirill4. I went ahead and got those 2 books to finish my Xmas shopping although they won't arrive till after haha. I suppose the publishers will be pleased with that and won't be too offended with the pdf link posted earlier? 😉

 

@bosco72, keep up the good work and remember, build what makes you happy as it's your model... Although I agree with kirill4 that having a crack at learning some new rigging techniques is very rewarding although a further investment in time and effort 

 

 

[Nirvana]

Rigging a plastic model is much trickier than a wood model, specially if you use the plastic masts as they will bend easier under the tension from the lines.

I intend to make my own rope with the machine I bought from Chuck, this way I  can get thinner lines rigging rope than provided in my Revell USS Constitution kit.

[kirill4]

Good day,

Fully agree with that !

Need to make some precautions to avoid bend them...!!!

when I was busy with standing rigging I tried don't apply tension at all, or did it:

*as minimum as possible just sufficient to keep lines of stays and shrouds strait but no more.

I used preliminary painted treads by mix of acrylic paints and varnish...

but later on I knew that much better to paint treads by mix of  artistic paints and artistic oil...

sometimes it was very usefull to paint treads such as crowsfeet of mizzen lifts for example, after installation -this way it will be much easy to make them strait and aplly paint after final fixation...

*some stays(mizen and bonaventure masts and some top masts stays) I fitted at place in reverse order for convenience- started to fitt them from lower stay parts and complete installation and final stay tension adjustment on the mast top...

  in my version of galleon stays it was possible due to I didn't use stays mouse but imitation of seized or spliced eyes...

*all running rigging I try to show slacked wherever possible.

 

To have rope making machine - great idea !!!

treads will looks more realistic and You will have all rope sizes You need on your model !!!

some type of rope making machine, of very simple construction,could be made at home even from cartons sheet and pieces of thick steel wire without gears...

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by kirill4

[Thunder]

Just my opinion but I think what could be a great model can be made to look like a toy if the rigging is poor. It does not take a lot of effort to make it look better, even just the use of different size threads makes a difference.

 

I have said many times but the best guide for an Airfix / Plastic kit is the books by Noel C Hackney. For your period of rig you would be best with the Mayflower book. Especially as you have this kit on your shelf. Takes you through the build and any modifications that you can possibly do to improve. It then takes you through the rigging step by step. I used it as a basis for my Airfix Golden Hind.

 

 

[kirill4]

Yes!!! Agree!!

And there is one more briliant book abt May Flower  ,in my opinion, of couse ... may be, not only my

 

[kirill4]

And... 

if You don't know yet... there is one more recent recearch made by our collegae,reconstruction based oj Aker/s  ideas

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t6619f952-Alternative-Rekonstruktion-der-GOLDEN-HIND.html

I could guess it will be interesting for them of us...who interesting in galleon models :)))

https://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/t6619f952-Alternative-Rekonstruktion-der-GOLDEN-HIND-11.html

[kirill4]

some considerations about rigging coloring... in the begining, when I didn't know too much ... I did it  paint, treads, by  mix of acrylic paints and acrylic varnish... I used syntetic treads " gutermann" without furs... but this acrylic coat is not too resistant stays on treads, and need to be restored again and again after intensive manipulations with rigging trough the blocks...

But later on I 've found more interesting technique to use oil artistic painta and oil for coloring model rigging 

how it looks like You could see on D.Shevelev models/// https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=71120

posts 284 -286

https://www.shipmodeling.ru/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=71037&start=270

Edited December 24, 2020 by kirill4

[bosco72]

All the input is very much appreciated. Its really encouraging to have all this help and expertise. I am 100% taking every chance I can to learn. I have managed to buy copy's of the books mentioned, I already have quite a few books on ships, inherited from my father and his father, but not so may on modeling. Throughout this build I have practiced a few techniques regarding rigging. Including hitch knots on the shrouds, seizing, waxing, and I also have read a lot on making my own scale ropes, to the point of ordering a ropewalk. The reason behind using the threads I have used here are simply because I liked the look of them, they look like ropes instead of string/thread. Are they out of scale, yes. But I'm happy with the trade off as I like the way they look a lot. If that what makes this build like like a children's toy to some people, I'm OK with that. My main focus of this build was to, firstly enjoy myself, then learn new things, new skills. (some of the other choices I have made are a result of, lack of experience and usually a trade off because of lack of time) 

 

Please keep participating and helping out. As siad it's massively helpful, informative and interesting. 

 

Thank you. 

[Thunder]

The most important thing is that you enjoy what you are doing, that is after all what having a hobby is all about. I like to think I am producing something of accuracy but that does not mean that is right for everyone. You build your model the way you want it and enjoy what you have produced.

[kirill4]

Fully agree with You! :)))

[bosco72]

Just got this out of the shed, never looked at it until now. Vintage version of the Heller 1:100 victory. 

[bosco72]

I think it's from the 60/70s. Could be later, not sure how long it ran for. 

Edited January 8, 2021 by bosco72

[kirill4]

This is Great kit for building detailed plastic model of the Victory!!! :)))

I like it very much!

[bosco72]

10 minutes ago, kirill4 said:

This is Great kit for building detailed plastic model of the Victory!!! :)))

I like it very much!

I now have two versions, looked inside the older version, looks very intimidating, will hang back on building them, I have two kits probably at my level.