Band or scroll saw?

[amateur]

Hi there,

 

The admiral told me not to, but I'm thinking of a scratchbuild (sometime in the hazy, distant future)

One of the questions I keep asking myself: for doing frames, stems, deckbeams, rudders and the like should I buy a scrollsaw, or should I buy a bandsaw?

My workspace is hardly large enough for one of these, so don't tell me to buy both (please....)

(btw not only my worksspace is limited, all other is also, so I'm probably ending up at the smaller scales)

 

There was a thread on this on the 'old MSW', but I can't find anything on it here.

What should I consider in deciding between the two types of saw?

 

(And yeah, I know, I should also consider a Byrnes table saw )

 

Jan

[captainbob]

Jan,

 

Since you will be working in small scale, like I do, you will be cutting tight corners in thin wood.  That is what a scroll saw is made for.  A band saw is really not good for this kind of work, the blade is too wide to make the tight turns. Also to cut thin wood you need a fine toothed blade, there should be two or three teeth touching the wood at all times.  As for the table saw, unless you plan on making your own lumber you will not need it.  The thin wood used in small scale boats cuts easily with a knife and a metal straight edge. 

 

Bob

[edmay]

Hi Jan, I also bought the new Dremel motto-saw,which is variable speed,scroll/fret,clamps to the edge of a table with detachable fret saw(# MS20-01),comes in nice case with 10 assorted blades,cost here in Canada around 129$. Edwin

[captainbob]

I have both a scroll saw and a band saw.  And I agree that the band saw is faster.  But when I have to cut parts that have an inside curve that is smaller than the width of the band saw blade the scroll saw is much better.  So it really depends on what you are cutting.  Since Jan said he doesn't have much room and will have to build small boats the scroll saw will be better for his needs.

 

Bob

[st george]

I've been looking around for the Dremel motto-saw and found it cheapest on line at the Home Depot for $89 with free shipping.

[amateur]

Thanks guys,

 

I understand: Space and scale are the determining factors.

When you say: not good in tight corners, what is (more or less) the minimum radius a band saw can do?

 

Jan

[captainbob]

Thanks guys,

 

I understand: Space and scale are the determining factors.

When you say: not good in tight corners, what is (more or less) the minimum radius a band saw can do?

 

Jan

 

I wasn't sure so I went out and cut a curve.  If you are cutting a convex curve you can rotate the material very close to the cutting edge of the blade and by cutting off a little at a time, make very small discs.  The problem is with the concave curve where the thickness of the blade and the width of the blade causes binding as you cut the curve.  The tightest I could cut with my 3/8" blade was a 1 3/8" (35mm) radius or a 2 3/4" (70mm) inside diameter.  

 

The boat I am making now is 30 feet long.  At 1:48 scale the beam is 2 1/2".  For this the scroll saw is what I used.

 

Bob

Edited July 1, 2013 by Cap'n'Bob

[WackoWolf]

Thank Bob, it was nice of you to do the test for him.

[rjt]

Hi,

I notice you are in Europe.  Why not go for a Proxxon like I did.  Saw it demo'd at a show in UK. It will cut as tight as you will ever need. Shipping cost will be less (than anything from USA), ample quick easy suport / backup (ditto) and if weight is a BIG issue go for a jewellers fretsaw....not as fast, not as heavy but cheapest by far!

 

All the best

Rob (Nr Oxford UK)

[amateur]

Thanks Cap'n!

 

Jan

[cabrapente]

There was a thread earlier about this question (on MSW 1.0? I am not sure) I can repeat here what I've said there: the best scroll saw is a band saw. I've got both and now I don't use the scroll saw at all. The band saw is good for nearly everything what you would use the scroll saw for plus a number of other things. Obviously the band saw is not good for a few tasks: veneer, tight corners, etc - but for these I am using my (manual) fretsaw anyhow.

My 2 cents...

Janos

I think the same.

of all jobs, 1% use the jigsaw.

everything else, I use the bandsaw.

[cabrapente]

Thanks guys,

 

I understand: Space and scale are the determining factors.

When you say: not good in tight corners, what is (more or less) the minimum radius a band saw can do?

 

Jan

this is achieved, giving little by little and with some practice.

the straight cut, only you can do it with the band saw.

I had a small as PROXXON, and the blades cost money

. now I have this red which is small, and very good.

you can put different width blades

Edited July 3, 2013 by cabrapente

[Walter Biles]

There is another consideration about the band saw. You can never cut out the middle of a circular piece, without cutting in through the edge. With a scroll saw, you can drill a hole through the middle, and then take the blade loose from the scroll saw, and insert it through the hole, re-install the blade,  and cut out the inside. Then just remove the blade and release your piece.

For scroll saws, you can get blades that will cut in any direction due to them having teeth all the way around like a round file, only very fine.

Also, there is usually a difference in the depth of cut on each of the two types of saws. It depends if you will only be cutting something an inch thick, or maybe 3 inches or more thick.

Both saws have another measurement that effects how long a piece you can cut off of a piece, called the throat. That means how far back from the blade can you slide the work before it hits the upright part of the saw. All are considerations. The special round blade for the scroll saw can be nice for that, because you don't have to rotate the board around the blade past that upright like you would for a band saw. Having a 10" band saw, I can't cut off a square cut piece longer than that 10" space between the channel for the blade where it goes up, and where the blade comes back down to cut. Scroll saws often have 15 - 16" of throat, although some may be less or more, depending on manufacturers and what they want them to do.

I hope that this may help you make a more informed decision.

Walter Biles

 

[sonicmcdude]

I think that band saw  is better for your money because it will do lot a work for you. I think it will do the job that table saw will do and the scroll saw combine. And off course  you can't do re sawing with a different  machine.

[Walter Biles]

Sinan,

 

I have gotten much happier about this Craftsman 10" 3 wheel bandsaw since I found out why the band kept jumping off at practically every use.  I found out that the tires had stretched out a bit, and one was fairly loose.  After swapping it to a carrier wheel, and contact cementing all the tires in their tracks, It seems to be a model machine.  I can rip off 3" planks with a rip fence added, and cut strips off of the planks to the size I need.  I am not working in micro size strips, so it is a big help.  I just sand the stuff with a block and strip it.  I had once considered junking it until I discovered how loose the tire was.  Centrifugal force was raising up the edges and letting it move in the groove. Once it slipped up on the retainer ridge, the band would jump off the wheel.  It is dreadfully difficult to get back on all 3 wheels at the same time.  Thankfully I seldom have to do that any more.  It has become my favorite tool since then, and it runs the quietest of any of my other tools.  I just about do all my cutting with it now. 

 

Walt Biles

[wabass]

I also use the band saw more often. With a 1/8" blade i can cut 5/16" radius cleanly, quietly, and almost forever without blade breakage. I have a 14" band saw and the footprint is less than 24"x24", with the convenience of standing work height. The band saw also allows you to quickley turn logs and rough blocks of wood into billets and thin sheets ready for the thickness sander and presto!.... scale lumber. I had the same quetions too, now i can live without the scroll but not the band saw.

[Meredith]

cabrapente

in your third photo - the billets - this is just what I want to be able to do. I was considering maybe a 10" band saw - would you think this would suit. I have some really nice timbers - way too big for the Jim Byrnes table saw - even if I tried cutting from both sides - it still wouldn't be big enough. I even considered getting a cheaper full size table saw - but I really don't want to double up with a mini table saw and a big one.

The bits of timber I have aren't huge in length - just maybe 30 to 50 cm long  - one is 80cm- but they would be 3 - 4 cm thick. And anything from 10cm - 15cm wide. They are all beautiful bits of timber and worth using.

What thickness blade would you suggest? I have read its more the quality of the blade that will do a nice job - more than the expense of the machine itself.

I have found one around the $300 AUD mark - that freight isn't too expensive. Its a 10" band saw.  In your opinion - could this work for me?

 

I do have a hand held power planer that leave a very smooth finish - But I guess I will also have to invest in a thicknesser - and from what I read on here maybe the jim Byrnes one is the way to go - unless anyone has any experience with alternatives that I can maybe get within Australia to save on shipping costs.

 

I do have a scroll saw (Proxxon) - so I am not really looking for something that will cut shapes/radius etc etc.. just a really nice straight cut on 4cm thick stock.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Meredith

[cabrapente]

I also use the band saw more often. With a 1/8" blade i can cut 5/16" radius cleanly, quietly, and almost forever without blade breakage. I have a 14" band saw and the footprint is less than 24"x24", with the convenience of standing work height. The band saw also allows you to quickley turn logs and rough blocks of wood into billets and thin sheets ready for the thickness sander and presto!.... scale lumber. I had the same quetions too, now i can live without the scroll but not the band saw.

Hi Meredith.

my first band saw was the orange, which is the same size as that of PROXXON.

I do not know if the machine was bad, but departed the saws.

spare parts were very expensive.

after I bought the red machine. is a little higher, but the saws, I the made ​​to measure.

the saws, are used by butchers, and fishmongers.

  is used to cut frozen fish.

I've tried several, and cleaner cut makes this

a greeting

cabrapente

[Boccherini]

Meredith,

I have had a 10" Carbatec band saw for 10 or so years. It was originally purchased to cut deck planking, which worked out ok. The planks just needed a bit of finishing off on a thicknesser. It is now only used/set up for cutting larger pieces of timber down to a size the Byrnes saw can handle. I am using a coarse blade (4 tpi), which cuts hard wood easily. The cut marks are either hand planed off or removed with the thicknesser, or a combination of both. For what it's worth, I also have a scroll saw. 

 

Regards,

Grant.

[Meredith]

I made a few phone calls to some shops - now I am even more confused. I first asked about the 10" band saws - one place the shipping was reasonable - but they tell me the 10" one wouldn't be good enough or very accurate and I would be better advised to go with a 14" bandsaw. They get very heavy - so shipping skyrockets. So I start reading reviews on woodworker forums etc. Its all too hard! Then I start to think it would possibly be better to pack up a heap of timber and send it off for someone else to cut for me. But as I can't see them in person - I worry they wont do what I want/need and I really would prefer to learn and do it myself. But would I get my investment back if I only used it for ship building - most likely not. Or I would need to ramp up my production rate!!! (Then its not a hobby/enjoyable). I have been spending so much time researching machinery and no time building. But boy is there some impressive stuff available.

 

I really don't know what to do.

[Mahuna]

Hi Meredith:

 

From the description of the lumber you want to cut, it seems to me that the 14" bandsaw is more than you need.  I have an old 14" bandsaw that I was given by a friend.  He shipped it to me after buying it refurbished, and the shipping was more than he paid for the saw.  It's a real workhorse and I love it, but it's fairly big.  It replaced a 10 inch swiss saw that I had, but I needed the bigger size to cut large blanks for bird carving (hawks, owls, and falcons can be pretty big).  If I was only building ships, the 10" would have been fine for my purposes.

 

If you are comparing quality bandsaws, the only real difference between 14" and 10" is the clearance - meaning that you can cut bigger pieces of wood on the 14" - and it doesn't sound like that's your requirement.  I would make a decision on size first, then compare available saws in that size.  As always, buy the best quality you can afford, but don't pay extra for a size you don't need.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Frank

[acrodave]

Either will do....... Both are great to have ...... Space requirements are similar, but the bandsaw is heavier, and requires more vertical space.  I have both, but I use the scrollsaw more often.

 

If I was going to have just one, and I had a space limit, I think I would go with the Dremel Moto-Saw.  Great little saw (I have one of the very early versions from the 1960's), which is easy to store, and has a lot of versatility.

 

Table saw is nice, also...... I have the Dremel, and am pleased with it.

 

Dave

[fabius.b]

Both !      You can make the hardest work with bandsaw, and finish with scroll saw.

 

If I had  to choose, I buy a bandsaw. You can always finish with handscrollsaw., IMHO

Edited July 30, 2013 by fabius.b

[rdsaplala]

If you're working on a small scale (ex. 1/64 and below), I would recommend a scroll saw to cut the tight corners as mentioned by the others, yes perhaps you could manually cut this with a fret saw but the scroll saw has a big advantage of making the work much easier and faster.

 

As examples, the two gallows below were my first attempts at using a scroll saw and it was such a breeze to cut all those tight corners. Note that the gallow is only about 2 inches wide so I doubt if a bandsaw could be used to make these. Oh, I also tried doing this with a fret saw and let's just say that the results were less than adequate   :

 

 

 

 

[Elroy]

I have just about every electrical and hand tool known to man and a few that haven't even been thought of yet (I'll let you ponder that one yourself), and I still prefer to use hand tools for very fine work.

My scroll saw and band saw get plenty of use, but I still seem to gravitate to the hand tools for the finer stuff. This applies not only to my modelling, but furniture making as well.

If you are working to a budget, then invest in a few quality hand tools from time to time. A good vice is worth its weight in gold as is a set of small palm planes.

Quality hand tools will eventually cost almost as much as the electrical stuff, but they will outlast and outperform most other tools and you don't need to buy them all at once, so you can spread the cost over a longer timeframe as finances permit.

If you have your heart set on electric tools, buy what you can afford, not what you wish you could afford.

Good luck mate, either way.

Errol.

[Meredith]

I have decided I am going to get a couple of specialised hand saws and some different vices. I think they will be easier for me to use - maybe take longer. But that is not a guarantee. I have done a lot of research lately and many say the hand saw is actually quicker especially if you take into account set up time to rip/resaw blocks of wood.

[Walter Biles]

@ Merideth, 

 

Shops always want you to get bigger and more expensive so they can make more.  I have a 10" band saw and it will cut a block up to 3" thick.  That should be wide enough for sheet material.  In addition I rip the sheets down after sanding them a bit, and make planking strips with it.  Even with my 3/8" blade on it, I can cut pretty intricate shapes.  You just need to decide if that is within the size parameters you need to work.  You can clamp a straight plank parallel to the blade for a rip fence.  2 small clamps and a ruler and a trial cut or two, and you will be cutting all the stock you want. 

 

Sorry about not getting back for your July 25 post, but I could not remember where to find it. 

 

Walt Biles

[Meredith]

I have decided IF I get a band saw. It will be a 10" one. Cost and freight cost and room to set it up are a big consideration. And if some of you here can use it to rip timbers - thats all I am interested in doing with it. I have a scroll saw - so dont need to cut shapes

Edited August 20, 2013 by Meredith