kentyler Posted February 10, 2021 Share #1 Posted February 10, 2021 Going to start on this. Wish me luck. Tony Hunt, Chuck Seiler, Archi and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Golden Posted February 10, 2021 Share #2 Posted February 10, 2021 Looking forward to this; have been aboard the replica in Bremen! H- mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted February 10, 2021 The plans say Werner Lahn: Bauteile Und Bauablauf Schriften des Deutschen Schiffahristsmuseums Band 30 mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share #4 Posted February 10, 2021 Looks like I will be reducing the plans, which are 1/20 to 1/50 so that the resulting model will still fit in the backseat of my car KrisWood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisWood Posted February 10, 2021 Share #5 Posted February 10, 2021 I'm looking forward to seeing how this one goes! 😀 mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolin Posted February 10, 2021 Share #6 Posted February 10, 2021 This will be interesting. I will grab a chair and follow along. mtaylor 1 Quote Current builds Meta - Billing Boats - Pentikontoros - Navarino Completed builds Swampscott Dory - BlueJacket - Will Everard - Billing Boats - Bohuseka (Swedish west-coast rowboat) - scratch build - Medieval long-ship Helga Holm - scratch build - Sloop from Roslagen - scratch build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Seiler Posted February 10, 2021 Share #7 Posted February 10, 2021 Alrighty! Another kogge. Pass the popcorn please. mtaylor 1 Quote Chuck Seiler San Diego Ship Modelers Guild Nautical Research Guild Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section Completed: Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted February 10, 2021 Share #8 Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) Great stuff, Ken! The more mediaeval ships the merrier IMHO. There are several build logs on MSW for cogs/kogges etc. They may be helpful to you. You might also be interested in these contemporary representations of cogs - https://www.pinterest.com.au/lowe1847/mediaeval-cogs/ Steven Edited February 10, 2021 by Louie da fly mtaylor 1 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 10, 2021 Author Share #9 Posted February 10, 2021 I figure its going to be about a 5 year build Chuck. Hope you brought lots of pop-corn Ondras71, KrisWood and mtaylor 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Seiler Posted February 11, 2021 Share #10 Posted February 11, 2021 5 years? What's the hurry? 😁 Plenty of popcorn standing by. Looking forward to it. The cog by catopower is pretty close to what you are working on. mtaylor 1 Quote Chuck Seiler San Diego Ship Modelers Guild Nautical Research Guild Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section Completed: Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Seiler Posted February 11, 2021 Share #11 Posted February 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chuck Seiler said: 5 years? What's the hurry? 😁 Plenty of popcorn standing by. Looking forward to it. The cog by catopower is pretty close to what you are working on. Somehow I am unable to edit once I leave and I don't remember how to create a link. Hefre is the link to catopower. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23434-hanse-kogge-by-catopower-shipyard-172-scale-card/?tab=comments#comment-690640 mtaylor 1 Quote Chuck Seiler San Diego Ship Modelers Guild Nautical Research Guild Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section Completed: Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted February 11, 2021 Share #12 Posted February 11, 2021 Click on the three little dots at the top right of your finished post. That opens up a menu so you can edit. Steven mtaylor and Chuck Seiler 2 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share #13 Posted February 11, 2021 So Looking at the plans the model at 1/50th looks ok. Smaller than a suitcase Because of the way the ship is constructed, I'm going to try first carving a plug Then building the planking over the plug Then removing the plug and "filling in" the framing. "Dutch Style" so to speak. If I get really adventurous I will trying building the model so all the interal planking (and the masts and sail) can be "lifted out" of the shell for inspection. Instead of leaving off part of the hull or deck to make the internal construction visible. Roger Pellett, bolin, mtaylor and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share #14 Posted February 11, 2021 I'm going to assume that the lines provided are to the outside of the hull planking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Seiler Posted February 12, 2021 Share #15 Posted February 12, 2021 I would be interested to know how detailed the planking instructions are. One thing to remember is that (working up from the keel) the first three strakes are caravel planked (side by side) and all subsequent strakes are clinker or lapstrake. mtaylor 1 Quote Chuck Seiler San Diego Ship Modelers Guild Nautical Research Guild Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, Pinas Cross Section Completed: Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch), John Smith Shallop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnobiumPunctatum Posted February 12, 2021 Share #16 Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) With the plans from Werner Lahm, you have the best source you can find for the Bremer cog. I Will follow your build with great interest. The plans are also the basis for the replica's in Germany. I've published a pert of the foto's I did from the original ship at Modellmarine.de. Edited February 12, 2021 by AnobiumPunctatum mtaylor and Chuck Seiler 2 Quote Regards Christian Current build: HM Cutter Alert, 1777; HM Sloop Fly, 1776 - 1/36 On the drawing board: English Ship Sloops Fly, 1776, Comet, 1783 and Aetna, 1776; Naval Cutter Alert, 1777 Paused: HMS Triton, 1771 - 1/48 "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." Salvador Dali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted February 12, 2021 Share #17 Posted February 12, 2021 Not far from where I live, a cog was once excavated during the expansion of the port of Antwerp. https://www.futurelearn.com/info/courses/shipwrecks/0/steps/7971 My hope is to one day make a model of this cog. So I follow with great interest. mtaylor 1 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch große-jacht / Yacht D'Oro 1/50 Corel Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Cleaning the 1/72 military collection Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share #18 Posted February 12, 2021 Yes. The plans are detailed enough to build a full size ship, if one wished. Chuck Seiler and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share #19 Posted February 12, 2021 Well, I measured this morning and I'm in luck. I have some 3/8's inch thick untempered masonite from a previous project where i was building a "block" model, and the layers in the 1/50 view are just 3/8's of an inch thick. So I will rework the lines to get full outlines for each layer, cut them out and glue them together, and the file/sand the hull smooth, and i will have my plug. I have decided to go ahead with the idea of dividing the stem and the stern posts so that the shell of the hull built around the plug will be separateable from the framing, deck and mast. At this scale, and using wire "ropes" i should be able to make the mast/sail actually riggable, so they can be taken down for storage. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted February 12, 2021 Share #20 Posted February 12, 2021 Patrick, What are the plans for the “ Antwerp Cog”? Will it be reassembled and displayed? Roger mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share #21 Posted February 13, 2021 I should know this. But how to I interpret the lines on the left hand side ? Are they cross sections that go between the lines on the right hand side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share #22 Posted February 13, 2021 OK got it buttock lines. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 13, 2021 Author Share #23 Posted February 13, 2021 Corel Draw to the rescue The 2 superimposed square boxes are temporary. They are my hack to control the alignment of the 2 images that make up the full picture Chuck Seiler, Louie da fly and mtaylor 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louie da fly Posted February 13, 2021 Share #24 Posted February 13, 2021 15 hours ago, Roger Pellett said: What are the plans for the “ Antwerp Cog”? Will it be reassembled and displayed? Roger, there are in fact two wrecks - known as Doel 1 and Doel 2. They are nowhere near as complete as the Bremen cog. You can see the archaeological reports at https://www.academia.edu/19499820/Construction_Features_of_Doel_1_a_14th_Century_Cog_found_in_Flanders and https://www.academia.edu/27506746/Doel_2_a_second_14th_century_cog_wrecked_in_den_Deurganck_Doel_Belgium Steven mtaylor and Roger Pellett 2 Quote It's not really a ship model unless you've bled on it. CURRENT BUILDS Golden City - Ballarat paddlewheeler La Lomellina - Theoretical Reconstruction of a Genoese carrack sunk in 1516 FINISHED Venetian merchant Ship from Basilica of San Marco Australian couta boat RMS Titanic HMVS Cerberus 11th century Byzantine dromon Winchelsea Nef - Late 13th century Mediaeval ship Henry Grace a Dieu - Rebuild of 1:200 model I started in 1967 Mistydeefer - restoration of decor model yacht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted February 13, 2021 Share #25 Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Roger Pellett said: Patrick, What are the plans for the “ Antwerp Cog”? Will it be reassembled and displayed? Roger Well Belgium is a difficult country politically. Believe it or not for the administration of 11 million residents we have 5 governments ... Explaining this whole political question is a very long story and a hopeless task. 😟 To make a long story short. Everyone wants to decide about everything, but no one wants to pay for it The cog Found in 2000 and disassembled. Then the question, what do we do with it, where do we place it, and especially who will pay for it Parts stored for 10 years in containers with water. In 2010 an investigation whether the parts were still suitable for restoration (luckily yes) Return to storage in containers with water. 2014 - 2017 money has finally been found to treat the parts. The planned reconstruction will start in 2023. However, a museum must first be built... I hope I live long enough to ever see this cog 😉 In Dutch http://schoolvoorscheepsmodelbouw.be/wp/specials/kogge-de-middeleeuwen-in-3d/ Edited February 13, 2021 by Backer goetzi73, Roger Pellett, Ondras71 and 1 other 4 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch große-jacht / Yacht D'Oro 1/50 Corel Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Cleaning the 1/72 military collection Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted February 13, 2021 Share #26 Posted February 13, 2021 The lines on the left hand side of the drawing posted above are the diagonals, not buttocks, Roger mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share #27 Posted February 14, 2021 Thanks Roger, How should they be interpreted ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share #28 Posted February 14, 2021 stitching the plans back together digitally always gives me fits. since I can only print them 1 scan at a time anyway, I decided to print the 4 scans that cover the hull and assemble them back together "on paper" by good luck the horizontal height of the layers is 3/8", just the size of some press board I have left over from building another "block" hull. So I'll be assembling 12 plans (1 for each layer) gluing them onto the pressboard and cutting them out with my jigsaw. then a lot of sanding and filling to fair the lines mtaylor, GrandpaPhil and bolin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Pellett Posted February 14, 2021 Share #29 Posted February 14, 2021 The lines drawing presents the shape of the hull in three two dimensional views; a half breadth (top view), sheer (side view), and body plan (end view). Each view shows a set of curves arrayed like contours on a topographical map. The half breadth shows waterlines, lines parallel to the vessel’s waterplane. The sheer shows buttocks, lines parallel to the vessel’s centerline. The body plan shows sections cut through the hull perpendicular to the vessel’s centerline. Each view shows only one set of curves. The other two appear in the view as straight lines. For example, the half breadth shows waterlines as curves; the buttocks and sections appear as straight lines. Although these three sets of curves adequately define hull shape, naval architects will often plot a set of diagonals as a final check to ensure a fair hull; a smooth shape without lumps, kinks, or other discontinuities. These diagonals show up in the body plan (end view) as straight lines radiating diagonally downward from the centerline. They often show up as curves on the half breadth. In your case, the draftsman has flipped them over to the unused side of the half breadth to avoid confusion with the waterlines. If I correctly understand your construction scheme, you intend to use the existing drawings to carve a plug from laminated lifts. The shape of these lifts should be derived from the waterlines. The angle of the bow and stern can be determined from the sheer view. You will then need templates to guide your carving. These are copied from the body plan sections. That’s all that you need to carve your plug. In carving your hull you will ensure a fair hull by eyeball. The diagonals can be ignored. Roger Baker and Wintergreen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentyler Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share #30 Posted February 15, 2021 Instant Kogge. Just add water Baker, mtaylor, GrandpaPhil and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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