HMS Beagle by Krupi - OcCre - 1:60

[Krupi]

3 hours ago, Gixli said:

I already follow another Beagle construction thread, but I will do the same here, your work looks great.

This is one of those historic ships that many of us would like to do. I will follow it with attention.

 

Thanks for sharing the progress

 

Thank you, I hope I can do the ship justice. 

 

I am having so much fun I am already debating about making a scratch built frigate of the same scale. 

[Krupi]

1 hour ago, Cathead said:

Wood glue generally seems preferable for wood-wood contact. Some planking methods use that for long-term strength, but include a few drops of CA here and there to achieve the rapid bonding that is desirable to many modelers.

 

 

Thanks Cathead I will crack on with the PVA. 

[Techtonic]

Since I mentioned the cardboard washers in this thread I thought I'd post a few pics now the the first planking is done to show the method. With the washers in place it is easy to remove the pins using shear cutters.

Still needs trimming, sanding and filling but I'm pretty pleased with the result for my first ship.

For the first couple of planks below the bulwark I used the method in the instructions of using whole planks then filling the gaps. But then I decided to try the usual method of just tapering the planks for the remainder as I figured this would be better practice for future builds.

[Krupi]

Nice work.

 

However having sanded down the hull with pins still in place I can tell people that it was a non issue. 

 

I thought it might be quicker to remove the nails but on reflection I actually think it would be quicker to file them flat opposed to pulling them out individually. 

 

The only potential benefit I now see for removing them after the hull plies have set is in case the nails come loose during sanding causing issues further down the road, that said they are essentially glued in place by the vanner plies. 

 

Speaking of which I am close to completing....

 

Annoyingly I missed a small gap between the strips on one side however as I am planning on copper sheathing the hull I am not going to rework the area. 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2021 by Krupi

[Gus M]

a great work, it is a boat that I have in mind if my apprenticeship goes well, I will follow your progress with attention.

[Pete D]

7 hours ago, Techtonic said:

Since I mentioned the cardboard washers in this thread I thought I'd post a few pics now the the first planking is done to show the method. With the washers in place it is easy to remove the pins using shear cutters.

Still needs trimming, sanding and filling but I'm pretty pleased with the result for my first ship.

For the first couple of planks below the bulwark I used the method in the instructions of using whole planks then filling the gaps. But then I decided to try the usual method of just tapering the planks for the remainder as I figured this would be better practice for future builds.

Good work , always good to see alternatives to the methods that are available and how they turn out

[Pete D]

2 hours ago, Krupi said:

Nice work.

 

However having sanded down the hull with pins still in place I can tell people that it was a non issue. 

 

I thought it might be quicker to remove the nails but on reflection I actually think it would be quicker to file them flat opposed to pulling them out individually. 

 

The only potential benefit I now see for removing them after the hull plies have set is in case the nails come loose during sanding causing issues further down the road, that said they are essentially glued in place by the vanner plies. 

 

Speaking of which I am close to completing....

 

Annoyingly I missed a small gap between the strips on one side however as I am planning on copper sheathing the hull I am not going to rework the area. 

 

 

Nice work

[The Gimps Chimp]

That second planking is looking nice and neat and clean.  Excellent work  

[Krupi]

I had a busy week at work which impacted progress somewhat. 

 

I have now done the ribbons... Unfortunately I have just realised I completely forgot to do the three strips at the front. I have just used the sand and sealer as well

😕

 

I have to say after just one coat of sand and sealer the hull is looking really nice, it almost seems a shame to paint it and copper sheath it now....

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Krupi

[Pete D]

1 hour ago, Krupi said:

I had a busy week at work which impacted progress somewhat. 

 

I have now done the ribbons... Unfortunately I have just realised I completely forgot to do the three strips at the front. I have just used the sand and sealer as well

😕

 

I have to say after just one coat of sand and sealer the hull is looking really nice, it almost seems a shame to paint it and copper sheath it now....

 

 

Thats what I thought when deciding to paint as advised . A very good job . Excellent work

[Robp1025]

I will be following this thread a long one idea i saw for planking i thought was an amazing idea was to use balsa blocks in the first two ribs of the bow and stern to help with not having to use the 2mm planks to do the super harsh planking. its mentioned in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqmZLUL1lRI

 

Next week ill be starting my build on a HMS Beagle and be doing a build log for the first time. 

 

I've been into plastic models as a kid and wanted to get into model ship building and bought  a cheapo Chinese wooden ship to see how it went and this is the progress on it till i hit a dead end with the rigging cause I don't know enough to do the rigging right yet. 

 

Pictures aren't that great but this was me just trying it out to see how I liked building wood ships instead of car models.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Maliba1025

[The Gimps Chimp]

On 3/16/2021 at 12:30 AM, Pete D said:

Thats what I thought when deciding to paint as advised . A very good job . Excellent work

I'm I right in thinking the Beagle was copper bottomed in the later part of it's history?

Chimp

[Krupi]

2 hours ago, The Gimps Chimp said:

I'm I right in thinking the Beagle was copper bottomed in the later part of it's history?

Chimp

 

 

From my understanding it was always copper bottomed, however it was re sheathed or added to prior to  Captain Fitzgerald/Darwins expedition. 

 

I have decided to go with the copper foil method myself. 

 

In fact I have just started an experiment with salt and a white vinegar soaked paper towel to see what the patina would look like. 

 

One pot is sealed and the other is not, I will check in a day or two to see how it is coming along. 

 

 

 

Hopefully it is not copper painted tape... 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-56330378

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Krupi

[Krupi]

I

16 hours ago, Maliba1025 said:

I will be following this thread a long one idea i saw for planking i thought was an amazing idea was to use balsa blocks in the first two ribs of the bow and stern to help with not having to use the 2mm planks to do the super harsh planking. its mentioned in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqmZLUL1lRI

 

Next week ill be starting my build on a HMS Beagle and be doing a build log for the first time. 

 

I've been into plastic models as a kid and wanted to get into model ship building and bought  a cheapo Chinese wooden ship to see how it went and this is the progress on it till i hit a dead end with the rigging cause I don't know enough to do the rigging right yet. 

 

Pictures aren't that great but this was me just trying it out to see how I liked building wood ships instead of car models.

 

 

Looks great.

 

It is a good idea, it was quite easy without but it would certainly make forming the shape easier. 

 

This is my first wooden model and I was anticipating the hull to be the hardest part however now expect the rigging to be the most tedious part. 

[Robp1025]

2 hours ago, Krupi said:

I

Looks great.

 

It is a good idea, it was quite easy without but it would certainly make forming the shape easier. 

 

This is my first wooden model and I was anticipating the hull to be the hardest part however now expect the rigging to be the most tedious part. 

Yea the rigging is pretty tedious especially on your first time. Make sure the rat lines go up towards the beginning, else it will be harder to do later on in the rigging process

[Techtonic]

On 3/15/2021 at 3:35 PM, Krupi said:

I had a busy week at work which impacted progress somewhat. 

 

I have now done the ribbons... Unfortunately I have just realised I completely forgot to do the three strips at the front. I have just used the sand and sealer as well

😕

 

I have to say after just one coat of sand and sealer the hull is looking really nice, it almost seems a shame to paint it and copper sheath it now....

 

 

Looks like we're both at exactly the same stage - I just put the ribbons on my Beagle too. I did remember to put the strips on the front (there are actually 4 on each side). They have a slight slope to them which I did - but it was only after everything dried I realized that I sloped them forward on one side and backwards on the other - so annoying! It's one of of those things that nobody looking at it would spot - but I know it's there, and that really frustrates my OCD!

[Krupi]

2 hours ago, Techtonic said:

Looks like we're both at exactly the same stage - I just put the ribbons on my Beagle too. I did remember to put the strips on the front (there are actually 4 on each side). They have a slight slope to them which I did - but it was only after everything dried I realized that I sloped them forward on one side and backwards on the other - so annoying! It's one of of those things that nobody looking at it would spot - but I know it's there, and that really frustrates my OCD!

 

I almost did the same thing, I warped one set in the wrong direction by mistake so had to scrap them.... I am sure no one will notice I expect 99% of the time only one side will be on display unless you have it as a centre piece. 

[Krupi]

So the good news is that the copper tape is actually copper the bad news is that the copper is so thin that leaving it for 24 hours was enough to absolutely obliterate it. 

 

It looks like I won't need to worry about sealing it in a box (right box) as the sealed example just aided the reaction time. 

 

The second image is after I have tried to lightly rub the surface flat. 

 

I will try six hours now however I am debating if this tape is too thin to achieve a patina, certainly it will need to be sealed afterwards.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Krupi

[Krupi]

Test No. 2 

 

This time I actually stuck them down overlapping as per the actual sheathing process, the first time they were simply held in place by one strip which allowed the backing material to soak up the salt vinegar solution and attack both sides. 

 

 

I think I might have to look for some thicker tape I can't imagine using this stuff on the hull it marks too easily. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Krupi

[The Gimps Chimp]

I guess the chemical reaction doesn't scale to 1:60.  How easy would it be to achieve the result using paint?

[Krupi]

That shouldn't be a problem, the first attempt I wasn't aiming for a consistent patina. 

 

The second test should be more consistent and closer to what it would be like on the hull. 

 

I could paint it but I would rather have an actual patina. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Krupi

[Krupi]

Hey chaps it has been an absolute manic few weeks at work so progress has been a bit slow. 

 

I was in the process of painting and attaching the strips, having no idea what the strips were I did a bit of research it turns out they are meant to represent the hammock stowage rails. Unfortunately I really didn't like Occre's interpretation of the the hammock stowage so I decided to throw away the strips and go my own way. 

 

I did a bit of research and I managed to get hold of a few images from a book on the the anatomy of the Beagle... This is there interpretation of the rails 

 

Obviously the model is completely different to Occre's interpretation, no real tumblehome for example also the kit is a bit different from Occre's own advertising images around the rails in particular. 

 

Anyway to achieve this it meant going back a few steps... I ended up removing some of the strips. I then used a few spare 0.6mm thick cuts to make the sides of the rails and replaced the rails I had previously created with longer versions going the full height of the rail, both on the inside and outside. 

 

P. S. I also fashioned some gangway steps. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Krupi

[LucienL]

Hey Krupi, this is looking great so far. I'm also building the Beagle and also realised that the wooden lumpy things were meant to be hammocks. I think you've made the right call, it'll look more authentic without them.

I also see you're coppering the hull as well. I've recently finished coppering and might have some tips if you're interested. I went for a more brown patina, so it might not be relevant if you're going for a bluer colour.

[Krupi]

That looks great LucienL, I am still going for a green patina but only for the top two/three rows of sheathing the rest I was going to brown like yours. 

 

How did you achieve it, I was going to test a Baking Soda method? 

[Pete D]

11 hours ago, LucienL said:

Hey Krupi, this is looking great so far. I'm also building the Beagle and also realised that the wooden lumpy things were meant to be hammocks. I think you've made the right call, it'll look more authentic without them.

I also see you're coppering the hull as well. I've recently finished coppering and might have some tips if you're interested. I went for a more brown patina, so it might not be relevant if you're going for a bluer colour.

That finish looks great . I think it may be worth a try on my next attempt at a build

[LucienL]

16 hours ago, Krupi said:

That looks great LucienL, I am still going for a green patina but only for the top two/three rows of sheathing the rest I was going to brown like yours. 

 

How did you achieve it, I was going to test a Baking Soda method? 

Oh cool, that's probably the most historically accurate way to do it.

 

I have tried the baking soda (bicarb) method, I found that it is very slow and very uneven at what it does. You may have more success than me, but I found that it does pretty much nothing. I have also tried ammonia fumes, which also wasn't great and not really what I was looking for. Eventually I used liver of sulfur, which is what professional jewellers use to patina silver and copper, there are some great tutorials online. The gel form is best as the solid form will go off very quickly. You can get it from jeweller supply stores or order it online. https://koodak.com.au/products/liver-of-sulphur-for-silver-copper-brass?variant=30180608397

 

I added about 3 mL of the gel to a cup of boiling water from a kettle (not rolling or bubbling just steaming). It's good to let the water cool a bit before adding the gel. If you boil the liver of sulfur, you get toxic sulfur dioxide, so be careful. The hotter the water is, the quicker and deeper your patina will develop. I tried colder water, but it ended up more purple than brown. You have to be quick to get the copper done quickly as the water will cool and the strips dipped later will be a different colour to the ones dipped earlier. Don't try to heat it up again, that could go badly.

 

Then you stick the copper in for a couple of seconds, as soon as you see a colour change (again, you need to be quick, a second too long will make it too dark), take it out and stick it in a bicarbonate bath. The bicarb bath is meant to halt the reaction, but it might change colour when you take it out and let it dry. I went through a few trials at different temperatures and leaving the copper in for different times to get the colour I wanted.

 

It's also good to set up a bit of an assembly line, have your copper strips and then a rectangular container with the liver of sulfur solution. Then just stick in maybe 3 or 4 strips, by the time the last one is in, the first one is ready to take out. Then have your bicarb solution and just put them in there. It doesn't matter how long they stay in the bicarb bath, they will still change colour when they are taken out. Maybe wipe them down a bit when you do take them out to prevent the bicarb from crystallising on the copper

 

After the plates are on the ship, I lightly buffed it with some fine steel wool to make it a bit more orange again (careful to not turn up the corners of the plates). You don't have to do this if you are happy with the colour. On my ship, one side was a little too dark and the steel wool made it similar to the other side. Then, seal the copper with a clear copper and brass protector (available from hardware stores). This will make it really glossy.

 

The other thing is that the liver of sulfur patina is still shiny, so it needs to be dulled. If you can find a matt copper protector then that could work, but I'm not sure if they exist. I used a matt wood varnish on top of the sealed copper, but with a very light coat, I just wiped it on with a paper towel. If you put too much of the matt varnish on, it can get streaky and start to drip.

 

You have to be careful with sanding, as you could easily catch the corners of your plates and sand off the patina, which makes it a bit challenging to get a flat even coat. The matt varnish will make it look darker and hide the purple sheen that might develop in the patina.

 

Hope that helps

Edited April 6, 2021 by LucienL

[Seahawk1313]

On the copper plates, You can leave them bright.  On the boats I ran the copper didn't turn brown/green until it was out of the water in the yard.  Salty water is like sanding the copper on an active boat.  Sitting at dock the above waterline copper will turn, but once moving through the water it turns bright as a new penny.  That's how I remember it to be.-Hal   

[Krupi]

Thanks chaps, I don't for a second believe that the movement would keep the copper bright, regardless it would be corroded by the sea water... Perhaps a moving ship would corrode at a slower rate? 

 

I have found a video of the USS Constitution being brought into dry Dock, interestingly it is the opposite of what I had imagined... The exposed copper has retained some shine and below it has a green patina? 

 

https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2015/05/28/constitutions-dry-dock/

 

Looks like I will need to continue researching. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Krupi

[Krupi]

This investigation by Humphry Davy suggest that a top band of green patina and a dull red in the water is what is expected. 

 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/107708?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

 

The USS Constitution might have been in the water for so long that the whole hull now had the green patina...? 

 

That doesn't explain why the top band still has a shine to it. 

 

Apparently before the latest dry docking where they replaced the copper the last time it was dry docked was in 1992 so I will try and find some pictures. 

[Krupi]

It turns out that the top band of copper plates have been painted with a anti fouling paint hence the video in the dry Dock. I wonder why they don't apply this to the rest of the copper? 

 

It seems like the copper has also being quite regularly replaced apparently in 1995 so that is 20 years of corrosion and they didn't replace the copper on the rudder in the 2015 restoration....

 

 

So realistic weathering of the hull depends on how old you want the hull to look?

 

I think a band of green along the top and a dull brown for the submerged area would be a realistic depiction. 

 

Eventually, thanks to the oxygen in the sea water the whole of the hull would be covered in a green patina. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Krupi