rwiederrich Posted September 16, 2021 #361 Posted September 16, 2021 1 hour ago, ClipperFan said: Rob, the "weaker sex" indeed. That's a ton of malarkey. Anyone who's seen their wife go through childbirth knows the truth. Women are tough as nails. If men had to bear children... I fear the human race would have gone extinct and you know there would be Abortion Clinics on every corner like Starbucks! 😉 But I digress. I'm glad for your wife that her cure has been made for her. Meanwhile, since nobody's interested in the 3 folks in this pic, I edited them out to focus entirely on the skylight. Yeah....I edited them to some degree as well. I suspect they are involved in the leadership or management of the processing ship and or canary business. They surely are not common workers who process the fish....... Great close up..that will be of great value. Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 16, 2021 Author #362 Posted September 16, 2021 5 hours ago, ClipperFan said: Vladimir, I already shared these on Rob's blog. I took additional pictures and felt these might be a little sharper. The Bow scene has just a little more of the ship which I edited to get the image more balanced. This is actually more true to how Mike sent them to me. I noticed a little child standing between the Captain and his wife on the Rear House deck which I never noticed before. Thank you for compliments my friends. Rich this painting is very beautiful indeed. i noticed vertical bowsprit cap ! im going to revision my stern to point im about to change balustrades to truer side and leave those varnished. Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 16, 2021 Author #363 Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) Folks, i was working literally 8 hours on glory poop house today. i cant stress how many hours modelmakong take.... i made only windows and started roof which is really peculiar but in my opinion utmost beautiful thing on houses aesthetics. I dont have many pics but did some trials and wuite like the outcome. im about to make carriagehouse knees fro that i look forward enormously. i wish i had some 1:72 figurines to put around when taking pics to get things a bit lifelike though.... I got some white sryren panels fro houses that i am over the moon at... i still maek rest from leftovers from previous projects...which i enjoy twice.... here is soemthing to comment on...i like most on modeling is the rpocess...i barely know what outcome will be when trIng something ..i opted for simple design of side windows of carriage houses. what do sou think? thanks, V. Edited September 16, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa Add GrandpaPhil 1 Quote
rwiederrich Posted September 16, 2021 #364 Posted September 16, 2021 There you go Vlad....if you like it then that is the direction you should go. Clean and simple is prudent. I like that you are venturing out of the wood world into styrene. Much can be made nicely with it. Can't wait of more pics. 8 hours of work....I only wish.......... Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."
ClipperFan Posted September 16, 2021 #365 Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: Folks, i was working literally 8 hours on glory poop house today. i cant stress how many hours modelmakong take.... i made only windows and started roof which is really peculiar but in my opinion utmost beautiful thing on houses aesthetics. I dont have many pics but did some trials and wuite like the outcome. im about to make carriagehouse knees fro that i look forward enormously. i wish i had some 1:72 figurines to put around when taking pics to get things a bit lifelike though.... I got some white sryren panels fro houses that i am over the moon at... i still maek rest from leftovers from previous projects...which i enjoy twice.... here is soemthing to comment on...i like most on modeling is the rpocess...i barely know what outcome will be when trIng something ..i opted for simple design of side windows of carriage houses. what do sou think? thanks, V. Vladimir, that is elegantly beautiful. Now I'm going to share some "eagle eyed" detail on the side of this Rear Carriage House that will either drive you nuts or challenge you to a deeper level of fine detail, even if it's just representing this sculptured look by painting. I originally figured since it was only 3' tall, the 45' sides would be plain. That's until I stumbled on a small rear corner section that's only visible from the Stern shot Mike shared with us just recently. Tucked in neatly just next to the Port side rear ladder to the upper deck, just barely visible is the most elegant little rectangle on the corner of the Carriage House panel. I've edited and enlarged the area as best as possible to make it more visible. That tells me that if builders included this decorative accent on the rear section and it's clearly all over the Helm House as well, then the 45' sides also had these embellishments along the sides too. I'm not telling anyone the have to add these lovely accents to their models, just felt you'd appreciate knowing that they really were there. Edited September 16, 2021 by ClipperFan additional information & images Quote
ClipperFan Posted September 16, 2021 #366 Posted September 16, 2021 Rob, Vladimir, here's one of the nicer pics which again confirms "GLORY of the SEAS" had a sleek, beautiful hull despite being a very large vessel. What really impresses me about this image (from an ad for the refrigerator insulating material) is how gracefully her large Grecian Goddess 'Athene' projects from her Clipper bow. It's hard to tell from such a tiny, blurry image but enlarged, if you look closely into the shadows below the Bowsprit, her head and upper torso can just barely be made out. Even marred by two stories of factory structures and a large ungainly metal exhaust stack, McKay's venerable, last "Medium" Clipper Ship's lasting beauty is still there. Lastly, I've shared a picture of an original door from Glory shared by Arina "theAuthor'sDaughter" which her dad Michael Mjelde owns. Very clearly this artifact reveals that the pattern of the doors in the Rear Carriage House are practically identical. GrandpaPhil 1 Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 17, 2021 Author #367 Posted September 17, 2021 12 hours ago, ClipperFan said: Rob, Vladimir, here's one of the nicer pics which again confirms "GLORY of the SEAS" had a sleek, beautiful hull despite being a very large vessel. What really impresses me about this image (from an ad for the refrigerator insulating material) is how gracefully her large Grecian Goddess 'Athene' projects from her Clipper bow. It's hard to tell from such a tiny, blurry image but enlarged, if you look closely into the shadows below the Bowsprit, her head and upper torso can just barely be made out. Even marred by two stories of factory structures and a large ungainly metal exhaust stack, McKay's venerable, last "Medium" Clipper Ship's lasting beauty is still there. Lastly, I've shared a picture of an original door from Glory shared by Arina "theAuthor'sDaughter" which her dad Michael Mjelde owns. Very clearly this artifact reveals that the pattern of the doors in the Rear Carriage House are practically identical. Thanks Rich, interesting that door IS twin color as mine haha. I cant getveye off such top notch carpentry indeed. Imagining those lads where doing IT by simple tools its mindboogling... SIné progress on roofing. I started revisions as Updated some things towards reality... Made groove to platform as IT was 17 century before....not easy to step on by men...i hope It added nicely ....started roof structures....some prelimenary testing... ScottRC and GrandpaPhil 2 Quote
ClipperFan Posted September 17, 2021 #368 Posted September 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: Thanks Rich, interesting that door IS twin color as mine haha. I cant getveye off such top notch carpentry indeed. Imagining those lads where doing IT by simple tools its mindboogling... SIné progress on roofing. I started revisions as Updated some things towards reality... Made groove to platform as IT was 17 century before....not easy to step on by men...i hope It added nicely ....started roof structures....some prelimenary testing... Vladimir that's beautiful woodwork. You're truly creating something to be very proud of which I suspect, like Rob's replica will be a timeless heirloom for your family's for the ages. I agree about Glory's two tone door. From the photo, it looks like it's cherry wood with maple inset. Very lovely. It must have been quite impressive when she was new. An observation I have is that, like I said to Rob, while subtle, the shape of the Rear House isn't a rectangle. If you look at Stern the pic of Glory in Alaska you'll see on the Port side from above there's a slight almost unnoticeable curve as the rear of the House is narrower at the Stern than further forward. That's been done to accommodate her walkways as the ship narrows to her Stern. I'm not suggesting you change the beautiful work you've already done, as the difference on the real vessel is barely noticeable. I'm just trying to give you my best insights into Glory's true appearance. There are many, many subtle touches throughout this beautiful Ship. GrandpaPhil 1 Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 17, 2021 Author #369 Posted September 17, 2021 58 minutes ago, ClipperFan said: Vladimir that's beautiful woodwork. You're truly creating something to be very proud of which I suspect, like Rob's replica will be a timeless heirloom for your family's for the ages. I agree about Glory's two tone door. From the photo, it looks like it's cherry wood with maple inset. Very lovely. It must have been quite impressive when she was new. An observation I have is that, like I said to Rob, while subtle, the shape of the Rear House isn't a rectangle. If you look at Stern the pic of Glory in Alaska you'll see on the Port side from above there's a slight almost unnoticeable curve as the rear of the House is narrower at the Stern than further forward. That's been done to accommodate her walkways as the ship narrows to her Stern. I'm not suggesting you change the beautiful work you've already done, as the difference on the real vessel is barely noticeable. I'm just trying to give you my best insights into Glory's true appearance. There are many, many subtle touches throughout this beautiful Ship. Rich , yeah, there definitely IS slight very very subtle Curve , from engineer perspective of narrowing stern aftwards expected and obvious. I Can tell your i Will live with fact that i jave roof striaght. This IS for makeup guys and i am sure you Will love it. My friends thought that IT was real houses when i showed him a pics.... I finished carving knees to see what trial assembly completed house looks like - pls note curved roof assembly and temporary mast Stuck in ... GrandpaPhil, gak1965 and ScottRC 3 Quote
rwiederrich Posted September 17, 2021 #370 Posted September 17, 2021 17 hours ago, ClipperFan said: Vladimir, that is elegantly beautiful. Now I'm going to share some "eagle eyed" detail on the side of this Rear Carriage House that will either drive you nuts or challenge you to a deeper level of fine detail, even if it's just representing this sculptured look by painting. I originally figured since it was only 3' tall, the 45' sides would be plain. That's until I stumbled on a small rear corner section that's only visible from the Stern shot Mike shared with us just recently. Tucked in neatly just next to the Port side rear ladder to the upper deck, just barely visible is the most elegant little rectangle on the corner of the Carriage House panel. I've edited and enlarged the area as best as possible to make it more visible. That tells me that if builders included this decorative accent on the rear section and it's clearly all over the Helm House as well, then the 45' sides also had these embellishments along the sides too. I'm not telling anyone the have to add these lovely accents to their models, just felt you'd appreciate knowing that they really were there. Interesting..it could be a small square depicted by raised paneling...then again its right edge is quite obscure. What I find wonderful. is the closed bit on the rail. Thanks for pointing out these wonderful items. Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."
ClipperFan Posted September 17, 2021 #371 Posted September 17, 2021 2 hours ago, rwiederrich said: Interesting..it could be a small square depicted by raised paneling...then again its right edge is quite obscure. What I find wonderful. is the closed bit on the rail. Thanks for pointing out these wonderful items. Rob Rob, since these raised panels are on the Front House, Wheelhouse and front fascia of Rear House, it's looking more and more like this was a consistent design element on Glory. The challenge with this particular pic is that on the original, it's a very tiny element but it's definitely there. I thought you guys would appreciate knowing. Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 17, 2021 Author #372 Posted September 17, 2021 ...rail IS Down.... BenD, ScottRC, Snug Harbor Johnny and 1 other 4 Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 17, 2021 Author #373 Posted September 17, 2021 After unsucessful search to fing proportionally perfect one I decided to make my own balustrades for carriage house rail. This IS prototype...now 40 another oooh... I cant say its turning AS its half knife sanding paper half drill with drilling bit used by side part....its simplified but proportionally was the goal... GrandpaPhil 1 Quote
ClipperFan Posted September 17, 2021 #374 Posted September 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: ...rail IS Down.... Vladimir wow! That's what my wife and son said when I showed them the pictures of your Rear House. Just beautiful work. Quote
rwiederrich Posted September 17, 2021 #375 Posted September 17, 2021 Bang! Ripped the rail down…..that took a lot of guts. But I know you will feel better with more accurate stanchions. Carriage house looks fantastic! Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."
ClipperFan Posted September 18, 2021 #376 Posted September 18, 2021 8 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: ...rail IS Down.... 6 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: After unsucessful search to fing proportionally perfect one I decided to make my own balustrades for carriage house rail. This IS prototype...now 40 another oooh... I cant say its turning AS its half knife sanding paper half drill with drilling bit used by side part....its simplified but proportionally was the goal... Vladimir, the single turned stanchion you made for the Rear Carriage House is amazing. It looks practically identical to those in the photo on the vessel itself. Bravo! Quote
rwiederrich Posted September 18, 2021 #377 Posted September 18, 2021 46 minutes ago, ClipperFan said: Vladimir, the single turned stanchion you made for the Rear Carriage House is amazing. It looks practically identical to those in the photo on the vessel itself. Bravo! Amazing job. How big is it…..is it scaled? I know what you are up against. Rob Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."
ClipperFan Posted September 18, 2021 #378 Posted September 18, 2021 1 hour ago, rwiederrich said: Amazing job. How big is it…..is it scaled? I know what you are up against. Rob Rob, you know I'll "bring the hammer down" on Vlad if he doesn't stick to his scale! 😉 Just kidding Vlad. We all know you're fully committed to keeping everything to proper scale but Rob's right. At 1:72nd scale, if you want to keep your rail height at 30" (2 & 1/2') including the rail, your posts will have to be below 1/2". Good luck buddy, we're all pulling for you! Quote
rwiederrich Posted September 18, 2021 #379 Posted September 18, 2021 (edited) I hope he has something for the lower rail, that is the one he removed and they are shorter fatter stanchions. I think my rail stanchions are about 3/16”ish If I remember. And 1/4” for the roof stanchions. Rob Edited September 18, 2021 by rwiederrich Quote Current build: Build log: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/25382-glory-of-the-seas-medium-clipper-1869-by-rwiederrich-196 Finished build: Build log: of 1/128th Great Republic: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13740-great-republic-by-rwiederrich-four-masted-extreme-clipper-1853/# Current build(On hold): Build log: 1/96 Donald McKay:http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/4522-donald-mckay-medium-clipper-by-rwiederrich-1855/ Completed build: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/gallery/album/475-196-cutty-sark-plastic/ The LORD said, "See, I have set (them) aside...with skills of all kinds, to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver, and bronze, to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts."
ClipperFan Posted September 18, 2021 #380 Posted September 18, 2021 7 hours ago, rwiederrich said: I hope he has something for the lower rail, that is the one he removed and they are shorter fatter stanchions. I think my rail stanchions are about 3/16”ish If I remember. And 1/4” for the roof stanchions. Rob Rob, from the calculator I work with 24" = 5/16ths" & 30" = 7/16ths" not much bigger than yours Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 18, 2021 Author #381 Posted September 18, 2021 9 hours ago, rwiederrich said: I hope he has something for the lower rail, that is the one he removed and they are shorter fatter stanchions. I think my rail stanchions are about 3/16”ish If I remember. And 1/4” for the roof stanchions. Rob Rob yours are 6 mm on rail mine vetween 7 and 8. Roofs are twice as high. Rich, Rob dont withdraw yourself from watching the scale! i encourage you dont feel put off. its helpful in many resort most of is - every repaired work is pain - and some cannot be done! peopl tend to see things always bigger than they are in reality. there are things to be rather avoided to build than to mak it off scale.....its helpful in every sense ! teaser... im working on forecastle folks. much to enjoy. Another natural lvarnished wood to compliment the aft... there is walnut all profile step - corner timber, stairs, and inset cabins with paneling facing amidship. pic facing aft- forward in michaels book with that boy hang on sails shows beautiful view on left side of fcastle.... i made 20 ! columns for toof railing today. enough for one day. i must praise myself.... V. Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 18, 2021 Author #382 Posted September 18, 2021 These Small patience testers were All hand made. Files knife sandpaper, and drill. Needed to assembly manufacture..:D Moved fwd today. GrandpaPhil and Tigersteve 2 Quote
ClipperFan Posted September 18, 2021 #383 Posted September 18, 2021 Vladimir, those are amazing! It's hard to believe these were all individually hand made. I love your Assembly style approach, brilliant! Just a friendly reminder. The roof posts all mount on the inner top of the white molding that surrounds the upper Rear House deck. There's a very slight cant inwards too. The outermost 4 cant more dramatically then the rest. Rob mentioned that there's a neat wrought iron rail at the aft end of the House. Before Wheelhouse expansion the rail would have continued around the rear, attaching to the rear companion entrance to the House, located only on the Port side. To assist you in double checking dimensions, here's a link to a helpful scale calculator: http://www.scalemodelersworld.com/online-scale-converter-tool.html#aScaleConvert Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 18, 2021 Author #384 Posted September 18, 2021 57 minutes ago, ClipperFan said: Vladimir, those are amazing! It's hard to believe these were all individually hand made. I love your Assembly style approach, brilliant! Just a friendly reminder. The roof posts all mount on the inner top of the white molding that surrounds the upper Rear House deck. There's a very slight cant inwards too. The outermost 4 cant more dramatically then the rest. Rob mentioned that there's a neat wrought iron rail at the aft end of the House. Before Wheelhouse expansion the rail would have continued around the rear, attaching to the rear companion entrance to the House, located only on the Port side. To assist you in double checking dimensions, here's a link to a helpful scale calculator: http://www.scalemodelersworld.com/online-scale-converter-tool.html#aScaleConvert Thanks Rich, i hqve one question though. Is there any chance fcastle inward bqiidingw and deck facing side were varnished? Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 18, 2021 Author #385 Posted September 18, 2021 This IS testing how fcastle could look like.its weighted Down by some stuff yet...you Can see walnut All thru rail over top ( not yet varnished covering planks above. There IS Also thin line of Wood underneath joining both Cabins tops. That oné IS white on Michaels photo which casts great contrast with walnut above. Im surprised how big are the cabin underneath. Those are not yet there... I Made contrasting panels are those okish? Poor those if white 😂. GrandpaPhil 1 Quote
ClipperFan Posted September 18, 2021 #386 Posted September 18, 2021 4 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said: This IS testing how fcastle could look like.its weighted Down by some stuff yet...you Can see walnut All thru rail over top ( not yet varnished covering planks above. There IS Also thin line of Wood underneath joining both Cabins tops. That oné IS white on Michaels photo which casts great contrast with walnut above. Im surprised how big are the cabin underneath. Those are not yet there... I Made contrasting panels are those okish? Poor those if white 😂. Vladimir, your wooden insert & walnut joinery work is so elegant & beautiful, I feel it would be a shame to paint it over. Leaving it natural would be a nice compliment to the Rear House front fascia. Besides, from what Michael has told me, often structures were left natural and varnished whereas other times they were painted. In his 1869 detailed description of Glory, publicist Duncan MacLean described all lower decks as being left varnished natural wood. Photographic evidence could support your supposition too. The sole image we have of the area under the forecastle is of the Ship's Boy taken from the Rear House. The Ship's Bow is visible at a great distance. It's in shadows but from what I can tell it's dark like natural wood would be. Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 24, 2021 Author #387 Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) Hi, Few Updates from past work.... Stanchions are still in progress as i have to diminish those according to scale.... Thanks for watch etc... Edited September 24, 2021 by Vladimir_Wairoa Add Snug Harbor Johnny and GrandpaPhil 2 Quote
ClipperFan Posted September 25, 2021 #388 Posted September 25, 2021 Vladimir, beautiful work on Glory's long front Cabin. In an effort to keep up with your pace, I'm posting my 2 preliminary sketches on Glory's original Wheelhouse. It's on graph paper, so each square is 1'. A surprising development for me was that when I reconciled the aft image of Glory's Helm House, what best fit the images turned out to be a 15' modified square. Modified because according to Michael's plan, the rear of the House is bowed to parallel the Stern. In some pics, The door also appears to have a window as well but in others it's inconclusive. I'm inclined to believe it did and perhaps in some pictures, the shade is down. GrandpaPhil and Vladimir_Wairoa 2 Quote
Vladimir_Wairoa Posted September 25, 2021 Author #389 Posted September 25, 2021 5 hours ago, ClipperFan said: Vladimir, beautiful work on Glory's long front Cabin. In an effort to keep up with your pace, I'm posting my 2 preliminary sketches on Glory's original Wheelhouse. It's on graph paper, so each square is 1'. A surprising development for me was that when I reconciled the aft image of Glory's Helm House, what best fit the images turned out to be a 15' modified square. Modified because according to Michael's plan, the rear of the House is bowed to parallel the Stern. In some pics, The door also appears to have a window as well but in others it's inconclusive. I'm inclined to believe it did and perhaps in some pictures, the shade is down. Thanks Rich, much apreciated. I will start ittogether with skylights. Quote
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