Glory of the Seas 1869 by Vladimir_Wairoa - FINISHED - 1:72 - medium clipper

[ClipperFan]

On 12/4/2022 at 9:13 AM, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Thank you folks for kind words and encouragements. 

 

@ClipperFan Rich, exactly. I particularly chose this scale for this reason, to show other derailed aspects of ship, and nowadays there is possibility to to with astonishing details specially  in rigging event with clippers due to better materiáls than in the past etc...

Therefore my rigging will be very light compared to Robs astonishing knowledge and miniature mastery, its not my strong side really so I will to very light on running rigging, showing no sails most likely to state cutty sark IS rigged today and event that will be enough of force fór me. 

AS far as fuzzy lines thanks, but i believe i finally found simiarly usefull way with prvá glue mixed with water...i will show outcome...:) 

 

 

@Boccherini

Thanks much Grant, Im thriller by your works with  machinery indeed. ...

 

@Alex-Ks1

Thanks you Alex.

 

...

There is no Massive update at this point, I last time returned to whats left to secure at deck. With  recuperation traces and hole under catheads  from Rising deck. 

To update. I will use black lanyards fór deadeyes not light color. I realised IT only draws atention and its not true to tarred weathered lanyard anyway. 

I still need filler to make those wedges under catheads.  impossible to see....

Thank you. 

As far As blackening. AS múch AS I hate painting and painting brass, I will never ever try to chemical blacken glued brass. Impossible of course...

 

I am reaching tweezers and magnifier territory of 1 mm chain  eyes. This size IS new fór me though :))) Decisions decisions. 

This IS Macro closeup magnified enormously. So. - asi far as Bowsprit rigging and so on, I believe im not bothering with trying to make any shackles od ridiculouspu amaller size just to suffer with no scale accuracy. Wired eye will IT be AS at the pics below

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vladimir,

Staring down on the fore deck of your Glory of the Seas it's quite possible to believe I'm actually looking at the real ship herself. In fact, that's true for many of your close-ups as well. That's a tribute to the refined level model making you're proficient at. Masterful work sir!

I have a question for the group. When I see the anchor chains running from foremast to the windlass across the deck it occurs to me this puzzling question. Wouldn't such a dangerous arrangement represent a potential fire hazard to the vessel herself? If you've ever seen a heavy wrought iron anchor let loose to free fall into the depths of the sea, it plummets at a fast pace. If those chains weren't somehow suspended above the deck and away from all wooden structures, friction would certainly ignite to wood. Does anybody know how this was handled on the real ships? Vlad, this is no critique of your work, your deck photo just brought it to my attention.

[rwiederrich]

Vlad...what is your source that you're using for the head gear layout you've employed?   The martingale chain guys origins don't appear to be correct.   I know you are rigging Glory according to her original layout, but her head gear didn't change, cept for the addition of the bowsprit cross yard.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

4 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

I have a question for the group. When I see the anchor chains running from foremast to the windlass across the deck it occurs to me this puzzling question. Wouldn't such a dangerous arrangement represent a potential fire hazard to the vessel herself? If you've ever seen a heavy wrought iron anchor let loose to free fall into the depths of the sea, it plummets at a fast pace. If those chains weren't somehow suspended above the deck and away from all wooden structures, friction would certainly ignite to wood. Does anybody know how this was handled on the real ships? Vlad, this is no critique of your work, your deck photo just brought it to my attention.

Rich....on more modern ships the chain ran within a chain channel.  There is no evidence to indicate that the anchor chain ran across the for deck from the forecastle windless to entry points just in front of the main cabin down into the chain lockers on Glory...this is why I didn't model it that way myself.  Mileage may very for other builders.  CS is a good example....but she also had a winch in front of her for mast which hoist the chain aft from the windless and down into the old.  Glory did not have sucha winch to aid in this process.  So to suggest the chain simply ran across the deck into these ports of their own accord and then down, into the lockers is a great stretch.

 

Rob

[ClipperFan]

Vladimir,

This revised scale fore deck sketch is based on Michael Mjelde's original with the slimmer profile you indicated using red lines about a year ago. You'll notice, there's no indication of chains running dangerously across the deck. Neither is there any indication of openings for such in front of the foremast. It makes far more sense for the opening to below be directly beneath the windlass. Less distance for chains to travel, greater ease of operation. As I always say. It's your model, your decision as to how you want to approach her for accuracy. However, if your goal is to be as faithful to McKay's original, both Rob and I agree your current depiction is most likely inaccurate. I hate to be a pain in the a--, but there it is....

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Rob, Rich, 

 

First Rich, please spare praise words, my work IS merely mediocre and i mean IT seriously:) 

We All know our glory had special feel in our hearts. 

Really thanks for your effort to pinpoint inaccuracies. You know I am basically blank page As far as this point of build and this IS my first real rigging. I know Rob knows most but i prefer to build not to bother asking everything in advance. . 

You saw i only recently realize rope thickness IS measured in circumference not in diameter. Please Keep in mind its not any bother to me if you have to intervene. Im not any concerned quite contrary... it doesnt devaluey progress in my eyes ať All. Im thankful fór whatever IS easily redoable better sooner than later i was so  múch overwhelmed in underhill book I forgot to realise that Glorys jibbbom Could be rigged still slightly different AS its different... and didnt check Miachaels draw. Im already making addituons Rob which IS easy peasy to add third jiboom guy etc....

As far as Anchor chain i removed IT completely AS Well. 

Be assured my friends my ultimate goal IS to have glory AS much true AS you wish She would be. AS i would like to say She still IS vety múch untill now. From now with rigging  I believe there wont be much  crucial error as i will double check both, Underhill and Michael Mjelde and I hope IT  will be pleasure to watch , i Can imagine I caused slight discomfort to Rob especially recent tíme . Meaning slightly humorously of course ..

 

@Rob, i usually try not to bother with slight innacuracies but with properly studying head feat now looking ať your jibboom coincidentally, i found misplacing middle jibbom band and chain , but to be me i wouldnt bother. 

If you see glorys jibboom photos and Michael draw, band, and stays, inner jibstay jibstay, topgallant flying stay and royal jibstay, 

 band between jibstay and topgallant stay IS clearly not right in center  but in 2/3 of its length far nearer towards royal stay and bands. I already just now Made mine...and you Can see i cpuldnt unfortunately narrow boom behind band. Maybe i will rework IT to look more realistically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

On 12/10/2022 at 3:42 PM, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Rob, Rich, 

 

First Rich, please spare praise words, my work IS merely mediocre and i mean IT seriously:) 

We All know our glory had special feel in our hearts. 

Really thanks for your effort to pinpoint inaccuracies. You know I am basically blank page As far as this point of build and this IS my first real rigging. I know Rob knows most but i prefer to build not to bother asking everything in advance. . 

You saw i only recently realize rope thickness IS measured in circumference not in diameter. Please Keep in mind its not any bother to me if you have to intervene. Im not any concerned quite contrary... it doesnt devaluey progress in my eyes ať All. Im thankful fór whatever IS easily redoable better sooner than later i was so  múch overwhelmed in underhill book I forgot to realise that Glorys jibbbom Could be rigged still slightly different AS its different... and didnt check Miachaels draw. Im already making addituons Rob which IS easy peasy to add third jiboom guy etc....

As far as Anchor chain i removed IT completely AS Well. 

Be assured my friends my ultimate goal IS to have glory AS much true AS you wish She would be. AS i would like to say She still IS vety múch untill now. From now with rigging  I believe there wont be much  crucial error as i will double check both, Underhill and Michael Mjelde and I hope IT  will be pleasure to watch , i Can imagine I caused slight discomfort to Rob especially recent tíme . Meaning slightly humorously of course ..

 

@Rob, i usually try not to bother with slight innacuracies but with properly studying head feat now looking ať your jibboom coincidentally, i found misplacing middle jibbom band and chain , but to be me i wouldnt bother. 

If you see glorys jibboom photos and Michael draw, band, and stays, inner jibstay jibstay, topgallant flying stay and royal jibstay, 

 band between jibstay and topgallant stay IS clearly not right in center  but in 2/3 of its length far nearer towards royal stay and bands. I already just now Made mine...and you Can see i cpuldnt unfortunately narrow boom behind band. Maybe i will rework IT to look more realistically.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vladimir,

I'm not sure if you remember the specifics for spars, so I'm sharing the section about the bowsprit. Inner bowsprit was 24' to the inside of the cap. Outside of the cap, the jiboom was 15' and flying jibboom 16' in one spar. From other descriptions of McKay clippers, there was a 5' end beyond. That would give a total spar length of 36' beyond the cap, 24' inner bowsprit, adding in an 18" cap gives you 61'6" total. It's doubtful these rigging arrangements changed over the years of her sailing service, other than the addition of the spritsail yard.

I applaud your openness to revising your anchor chains. I also firmly disagree with your self-denigration. I'm sure others, including Rob, would agree. You are a far more talented, resourceful and clever artisan than you yourself give yourself credit for.

[rwiederrich]

I recognize I made that chain guy error.  After I made the discovery , I had progressed too far along to comfortably redo it all.  Like the previous mistake of not taking into account the carriage house taper……. I again opted to excuse myself from the terror of remaking it.  I believe such errors are in keeping with a growing knowledge of her members, after the fact of construction.   I can only imagine how Mike Mjelde feels after published so many errors in his books and now through a more thorough re-engineering of Glory’s members, discovers his errors were more impressionable and of a reconstruction oversight then any act of laziness. 
 

Vlad….. you’re doing magnificent.  I hate to point out issues like the chain on Glory’s deck……..forgive me if I appear hypocritical.  
 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

16 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I recognize I made that chain guy error.  After I made the discovery , I had progressed too far along to comfortably redo it all.  Like the previous mistake of not taking into account the carriage house taper……. I again opted to excuse myself from the terror of remaking it.  I believe such errors are in keeping with a growing knowledge of her members, after the fact of construction.   I can only imagine how Mike Mjelde feels after published so many errors in his books and now through a more thorough re-engineering of Glory’s members, discovers his errors were more impressionable and of a reconstruction oversight then any act of laziness. 
 

Vlad….. you’re doing magnificent.  I hate to point out issues like the chain on Glory’s deck……..forgive me if I appear hypocritical.  
 

Rob

Rob, Man, contrary, you are saving me  from further disaster if i continue unnoticed. We have been thru with this many times and I state always, that this kind of cooperation IS fruitfull in science etc. Only one person work has ultimate  disadvantage in way if focused on one aspect if leasing wrong IT Can end Up wrong. We played Devils advocate in numerous times questioning usage, photographs, forecastle heigth, experienced  etc which proved amazingly. 

I Can be only thnakful fór that.

 

Speaking of your rig i didnt have múch tíme to watch IT in entirety thru summer, and IT IS blessing fór me  to have it dome before my eyes if i need to. More I rig now I am shaking head upon what you really do in your favoritke scale even hooks fór chains and how cleanly.  appreciation fór your achievementust be understood AS im ať limit with my scale. 

 

Moving forward. 

 

Frankly i mušt say i like glory rigged, watching head feat. She looks more completeand real to me. 

I added to head feat what was missing so far and yes its starting to get busy . Bowsprit ia double guy rigged being 2000 tons +. Third guy fór jibboom added. I know even martingale backstay should be taken by catheads - crazy what those withstood, but i left them Allittle below. I hope you Could swallow this l didnt want to pack it terribly. I didnt make new baplancer AS Well.  I Also made Anchor windlass mechanism and now will continue with main and fóre shrouds before moving Up.

I ditched blonde lanyard fór stanfing rigging AS per Robs experience and i realised its nôt true depiction of how boats looks in real. Its more distracting so i like IT Dark with blonde wood deadeyes etc....oh and sorry fór bulleyes those are myself Made nôt such pretty as previous. 

Thnaks múch enjoy and stays tuner fór upcoming   i will leave pics speak. 

V. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[Vladimir_Wairoa]

18 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Vladimir,

I'm not sure if you remember the specifics for spars, so I'm sharing the section about the bowsprit. Inner bowsprit was 24' to the inside of the cap. Outside of the cap, the jiboom was 15' and flying jibboom 16' in one spar. From other descriptions of McKay clippers, there was a 5' end beyond. That would give a total spar length of 36' beyond the cap, 24' inner bowsprit, adding in an 18" cap gives you 61'6" total. It's doubtful these rigging arrangements changed over the years of her sailing service, other than the addition of the spritsail yard.

I applaud your openness to revising your anchor chains. I also firmly disagree with your self-denigration. I'm sure others, including Rob, would agree. You are a far more talented, resourceful and clever artisan than you yourself give yourself credit for.

Rich, im glad you see her apealing in whole. Im satisfied as ropes thickness IS proper now (kudos to Rob) and  for All upcoming rigging. stay tuned, interesting stuff is to come as rigging progresses.  All best. 

V. 

[BANYAN]

Hi Vlad, again an interesting update to your build.  She is coming along very nicely, and I think you undersell your skills a little.  It is great to see your positive attitude to the constructive criticism and suggestions offered; it makes such a refreshing approach compared with many who see such as an attack on their character/abilities.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

12 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Hi Vlad, again an interesting update to your build.  She is coming along very nicely, and I think you undersell your skills a little.  It is great to see your positive attitude to the constructive criticism and suggestions offered; it makes such a refreshing approach compared with many who see such as an attack on their character/abilities.

 

cheers

 

Pat

True indeed Pat.  When there are so many eyes watching and scrutinizing your next move....it could make one *jumpy* and a bit *offended*.  Vlad is taking it all in stride.  When as much study and evaluation that has gone into our rediscovering of Glory of the Seas, you'd begin to think everyone is an expert in some way.  Not forgetting, that photographs do not lie, we need to balance accuracy with ability and allow for some license on the part of the builder.  This isn't a community build....it is an individuals interpretation for the most part.   Consisting of so many parts, it is easy to forget where everything goes exactly.  Hopefully extreme errors can be remodeled, while minor (truly insignificant) errors can be left to themselves.  My forecastle deck remodel is a perfect example of a needed correction.   Vlad is doing a super job.

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

13 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Hi Vlad, again an interesting update to your build.  She is coming along very nicely, and I think you undersell your skills a little.  It is great to see your positive attitude to the constructive criticism and suggestions offered; it makes such a refreshing approach compared with many who see such as an attack on their character/abilities.

 

cheers

 

Pat

It would be childish to act "touchy" when going futile direction due Lack of focus or whatever reason. Besides, R&R are watching her for 2 years now and i know how precious those advices are...so i dont play showoffy here im not ashamed to show even "stupid mistake " its hobby for sake of it :)) ...and meant to be fun. Sometimes i find myself doing nothing just sitting next to glory and stare at her Elegant rake....other time im pissed i see i constructed little unstraight forecastle...and so on 🤩 ...building scratch is not Kit experience. It presupposes wrong paths. And top of that,m already i really looking forward to some fine  Kit after glory IS over. Fór relaxing following instructions build

Edited December 13, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[ClipperFan]

On 12/11/2022 at 11:37 PM, rwiederrich said:

I recognize I made that chain guy error.  After I made the discovery , I had progressed too far along to comfortably redo it all.  Like the previous mistake of not taking into account the carriage house taper……. I again opted to excuse myself from the terror of remaking it.  I believe such errors are in keeping with a growing knowledge of her members, after the fact of construction.   I can only imagine how Mike Mjelde feels after published so many errors in his books and now through a more thorough re-engineering of Glory’s members, discovers his errors were more impressionable and of a reconstruction oversight then any act of laziness. 
 

Vlad….. you’re doing magnificent.  I hate to point out issues like the chain on Glory’s deck……..forgive me if I appear hypocritical.  
 

Rob

Rob,

As the man who has inspired us all to join you in your pursuit of the most accurate recapture of McKay's final Clipper, I doubt any one of us would accuse you of being hypocritical. This continues to be a collaborative journey of discovery. Who knows what future discoveries may yet undo our current understandings? Still, I am firmly convinced that you and Vlad have built two of the finest museum quality scale replicas to date, flaws and all.

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, ClipperFan said:

Rob,

As the man who has inspired us all to join you in your pursuit of the most accurate recapture of McKay's final Clipper, I doubt any one of us would accuse you of being hypocritical. This continues to be a collaborative journey of discovery. Who knows what future discoveries may yet undo our current understandings? Still, I am firmly convinced that you and Vlad have built two of the finest museum quality scale replicas to date, flaws and all.

I'm humbled and find myself acting hypocritical, when I bring a construction error to Vlad's attention, when in fact I myself have errors built into my own version.   I'm fully aware the modeler has the final say concerning his own model. However, I have bit my lip and held my tongue on numerous occasions, not wishing to over step any construction decisions made by another modeler.  It makes me look like a prideful, selfish, know-it-all, when I point out others errors, when I own many of my own.

 

I am considering correcting and relocating the inner chain guy wire to its proper insertion on the jibboom.😏

 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Meantime in shipyard...

 

 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Good day. 

It were few busy days in worshop as I decided to customize commercial deadeyes for glorys size. Im quite satisfied with outcome, being right size. Commercial ones are usually thin Made fór older vessels, niť suited for clipper to be nicely thick ...

Forrstays fór All masts secured, ratlines have still tíme ...

Deadeyes not yet tied AS im waiting fór thinnest thread fór tying works coming tomorrow - they go empty like hell. :))) 

 

 

Now in meanwhile  im moving one  floor Higher to finish crosstrees and mount topmast shrouds and topmasst backstays. Two fór mast were secured originally.  Forestays with fish tack will come later on when yards are attached.

Always checking if masts are in line and Angled properly. They are getting quite a streda from ropes strain. 

Im looking forward to making topmast as there are things like shackles ať the fid of topgallant mast etc....All becoming smaller oné more bit. ....

 

Photos to speak. AS We dont have fóre deck proof, i believe underhill way was used already without hearts fór fóre lower mast double Forestays...later there were some screws added AS per photos. Anyway its All with agreements AS rigging depended on captains andany various securings might be used throughout ladys Carrer...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[BANYAN]

Nice work Vlad; particularly like your thimbles for the stays.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

I Wish peaceful celebrations, good health and joy everyone. 

 

This is last dressing update this year to our lady as I finally cleaned Up mess....to continue after christmass break. 

Been working  *** Up with those shrouds and finally works on fóre topmast rigging AS Well. 

I Jumped Up  to finish crosstrees ...and its gear. 

Forestay IS interesting part as there were various methods of securing stay. I first just tied fish tack caguely and temporarily at main forestay AS there will come blocks at 2/3 on its length downwards.   Its clear from photographs that glory Carried double topmast Forestay carrying IT one usual way going according underhill thru Bowsprit Via cleats ať its sides and splitted IT Continued along Bowsprit thru holes in deck to be secured somewhere inside the deck. 

Glory Carried inner and outer jib stay All 7" served around Bowsprit Area... etc.. first going thru upper hook  in martingale on port side again thru hole close Bowsprit into deck and outer oné thru upper hook on starboard side into deck in stbd side. 

Its All getting quite busy around Bowsprit now. 

8" double backstays Also temporarily attached, served and seized ať the top. 

I run out of deadeyes so need to make few. 

Thbak you fór watching Any comments appreciated. 

Stand rig of main and mizzen topmast to follow. Foretopmast IS overloaded :)) 

Few pics ...

 

 

[BANYAN]

Seasons greetings to you and your family also Vlad; may 2023 be a better year for all.  You are certainly powering ahead with that rigging; looks good.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

11 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Seasons greetings to you and your family also Vlad; may 2023 be a better year for all.  You are certainly powering ahead with that rigging; looks good.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Many thanks, wishing same to you and your family Pat. 

 

[rwiederrich]

Merry Christmas everyone.   
Vlad you are surely moving out on Glory’s rigging, that’s for sure. We’ll done indeed.  
 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Many thanks Rob. &  Merry Christmas. 

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

PF 2023 

 

[Boccherini]

Just finished catching up Vlad. Nice work. In particular: the two deck fixings for the double fore stays.

 

Regards,

Grant.

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

On 1/5/2023 at 6:01 AM, Boccherini said:

Just finished catching up Vlad. Nice work. In particular: the two deck fixings for the double fore stays.

 

Regards,

Grant.

Thank you Grant and others for follow Up. Just Fyi update. Works are interrupted atm  as we have rather serious health issues in family. Hopefully everything will turn for better. Take care everyone....V. 

[ClipperFan]

10 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Thank you Grant and others for follow Up. Just Fyi update. Works are interrupted atm  as we have rather serious health issues in family. Hopefully everything will turn for better. Take care everyone....V. 

Vladimir, 

I'm praying for your family that you have a rapid, full healthy recovery.

[BANYAN]

Thoughts are with you and the family Vladimir; hope all turns out well for you all.

 

regards

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

Praying my friend. 
 

Rob

[Vladimir_Wairoa]

Thanks you All fór warm words of support. Clearly this community is  precious. update mom had a stroke thankfully mild one and no brain or memory or language center affected yet She is now going to rehab to help to restore walking abilities.

With thankful thoughts i am now able to resume working and return to glory with easier mind...

 

Speaking of .....Still much work ahead. Srarted topmast backstays ...

i left glorry messy with topmasts rigging but was able to finish lower ratlines which Turned out rather fun and  pleasing work ..photos soon...

.  @rwiederrich would like to ask Rob or other experienced folks about cap stay rigging fórtopmast or lower masts etc...... This is apparently one thing Underhill is not explaining clearly, at channel being Behind  6 shroud but At cap where ? Thimble  At the back eur of cap  or at the sídew of cap trom starboard and port side? And would glory caarry that ?and one or two ? 

I would be really thankfully fór that.

I hope everyone is Well. 

Vlad  

 

By the way after christmass i stumbled on insane discount of books i couldnt miss from seaford press.. from 40 50 Down to 7 pounds or so....precious ones AS sloop of war....

And two other plans i treated myself with.... you May Guess where i will be heading after my clipper era wrap

 

...

Edited January 13, 2023 by Vladimir_Wairoa
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[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, Vladimir_Wairoa said:

Rob or other experienced folks about cap stay rigging fórtopmast or lower masts etc...... This is apparently one thing Underhill is not explaining clearly, at channel being Behind  6 shroud but At cap where ? Thimble  At the back eur of cap  or at the sídew of cap trom starboard and port side? And would glory caarry that ?and one or two ? 

I would be really thankfully fór that.

Vlad...my research, along with the physical limitations I observed.......resulted in me terminating the first 3 backstays at the topmast cross trees.  It was not possible to terminate them at the mainmast cap.  The tops for each mast rudely interrupted that idea.  In short, the stays would have pressed up against the aft edge of the tops and would have been abrading against it, and would have been extremely misaligned.  An entirely unacceptable situation.

Unlike your version....my version represents Glory after her major backstay conversion and would not be a good representation of your goal. However, the first 3 backstays would not truly be effected by the modification and in reality, still would not interrupt the path of the first 3 stays as I mentioned.

Review my completed images and you will see where all the backstays terminated on my Glory.  Again....my version has 2 new backstays on each side of the fore/main masts, and their insertions would effect the others.  Making your true locations more problematic.  Typically the first 2 stays would insert at the topmast crosstrees. The second pair would terminate at the  foremast flying jib stay insertion(at the point were the topgallant shrouds insert.  The last 2 stays would insert at the outermost foremast jib stay at the Royal mast top.    Review Mikes drawings in his books.

 

Rob