Ships boats

[Don Case]

I'm looking for info on the boats that The HMS Discovery ay have carried. All I know so far is from Capt. Vancouver's book. In various spot through the book he mentions a launch, a cutter and a yawl.  The available deck space is something less that 30'. In my searching I found some really nice drawings of a 26' yawl on Wikipedia but nothing for the other two. Is there any place I can find the likely length of the various boats? Were boats always stored lengthwise? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. 

[Don Case]

I found some info that is helpful that Alan posted on this thread Securing boats - Discussion for a Ship's Deck Furniture, Guns, boats and other Fittings - Model Ship World™ Second post. Just bringing it over here so i can find it again.

[allanyed]

Don,

Going with the launch, cutter, and yawl mentioned by Vancouver, the actual lengths for the boats for a survey ship are probably anyone's guess.   Looking at 6th rate Navy fighting ships in your time frame, they would have carried five boats, but if you only go with three for a 99 foot survey ship, fewer boats may be correct.  The Establishment called for a 21 foot launch, 22 foot pinnace,  18 foot cutter and two 24 foot cutters.    Lacking better contemporary information, and considering only three boats, maybe consider a  21 to 24 foot foot launch, 18 to 25 foot cutter, and a 16 or 18 foot yawl.   All scantlings for all of these sizes and types are on pages 58-61 in May's The Boats of Man of War.  I think if you go with boats of similar size you cannot be faulted for your choices.     

 

Search the Collections site of RMG for drawings that fit the time of Discovery.   One example of many yawl drawings is https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/86917.html   Again, for accurate dimensional information on about every part from keel to thwarts of these boats can be found in May's book which is probably the best book out there concerning English ships' boats.  (There are used copies on Amazon for $11.)

 

Unless a boat was hung from stern davits, I don't think they would have ever sat athwartships.

[Don Case]

Thanks Alan. What is "The Establishment"? I'm sure I've heard it mentioned a few times.

Never mind, I found it in Wikipedia🙂

Edited May 4, 2021 by Don Case
Found it

[allanyed]

There were several types of Establishments from the British Admiralty including scantlings for each rate of ship, armament, and boats.  Probably others as well.  These were all revised over time so you need to use ones appropriate to the vessel in which you would be studying.

Cheers

[Gregory]

7 hours ago, allanyed said:

(There are used copies on Amazon for $11.)

Abe Books has copies for even less..

[Roger Pellett]

If this ship was specifically fitted out as a survey vessel she may well have had a special boat allowance.  Serious surveying of an unknown Coast was the job of warrant officers working from small boats.  These had to be seaworthy and capable of independent cruising under sail away from the mother ship.

 

Depending on the date, the cutter and yawl might have been hung from davits.  The launch being the largest, in cubic volume, and heaviest would be carried on board.

 

Roger

 

 

[Don Case]

When Vancouver was exploring the coast. He would anchor the Discovery in one bay and the Chatham in another some miles away and then they would do all the surveying from the boats. There are more nooks and crannies than you can shake a stick at in the inside passage and taking the ships up many of them was not wise. The winds here are very fickle so it would be possible to have a ship stuck in an inlet for days or weeks even. I assumed that the boats would have sails but I'm not sure. Vancouver does talk about having to row for extended periods which made me think it was out of the ordinary. 

I have all the scantlings from Alan's book but I can't find the R&S or whatever it was called in a boat. All the boats of my youth had ribs about every 6-12" but they were all clinker built. Can someone give me a rough idea of the spacing. I imagine the bigger the boat, the bigger the spacing but just a rough idea as they will probably never see the light of day anyway. Here's the start of the first mould a 22' cutter.

[Gregory]

29 minutes ago, Don Case said:

Can someone give me a rough idea of the spacing.

The drawing that Allan referenced above should help.. 

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/86917.html

There are many " longboat " logs and topics here, any number of which should help.

 

Many of the basics probably didn't change very much for a period of over 100 years..

[Don Case]

I have looked at the link that Alan posted. It has stations marked but not frames. Is this one place where they coincide?

I must be putting in the wrong search words because " ships boats" got me nowhere.

[Gregory]

Try " longboat "

 

You get a lot of Medway's Longboat but others also..

 

The Medway longboat should be a good example of framing for the next 100 years..  

 

Also the Model Shipways 18th CenturyLongboat is a good example.

 

 

P.S.

" Pinnace " is a good search also..

Edited May 4, 2021 by Gregory

[allanyed]

 

Don,  You can also study Druxey's build log on a boat that should be of a lot of help to you.  It is the 28 foot cutter in the scratch build forum 1851-1900.   

 

As to room and space, this was  specified in boat contracts.   An example of a portion of a contract for two 23 foot yawls follows.   Spelling, punctuation and grammar are as found in the original handwritten contract.  

 

Contracted this 24^th July  90 with  the Hono^ble Thomas Willshaw, Esq^re one of the Princip^all Officers  & Comm^rs of their  Maj^ties Navy, for & behalf of their Maj^ties, by me Robert Smith of Langstone Shipwr^ts and  doe hereby oblidge myselfe to build & deliver into their Maj^ties Stores at Ports^th: free of all charge by the latter and on Aug^st next ensueing the two Yawles undermentioned of the Dimensions and Scantlings & each fitted with the particulars foll^ing  (viz)     

                           Long              Broad                   Deepe

Yawles  of         23ft:   -----      5ft: 7:ins  ------     2ft: 5ins   ------- Two

 

Railes of the upper strakes to be made out of the wholewood up and downe Gunnels  ............................................................   Keelson 6: ins. broade of 1½ inch planks,  timbers of 1½ inch w^th 13 ins Room and Space, & 10 inch Scarphs, .................................................. 

[Roger Pellett]

Don,

 

If you plan to accurately model the boats for your model, I second Allen’s recommendation that you acquire a copy of The Boats of Men of War by May.  Detailed information on ships boats can be hard to find and CDR May’s book is the best single reference on Royal Navy Boats that I know of.

 

As you progress, you will find that having a good reference library available is essential.

Roger

Edited May 5, 2021 by Roger Pellett

[Don Case]

I've ordered May's book. $22 for an $11 book.

Thanks for that Alan. 13", that's 1/4" at 1:48. That's a lot of frames on a 5 1/2" boat.

I watched Keven Kenny's vid on building lifeboats. I'll read Druxey's build.

[Don Case]

Druxey's build looks perfect, thanks.

Just to show that I'm not going in blind I did build this lifeboat for the "Cicely" about 15 years ago. It's a proper clinker built. 5" long.

[Lieste]

Essex, at 87ft long carried at least 5 boats - she had three in the water (having lost 2 when knocked down by the squall, soon after setting off). One of the remaining 3 had been damaged while hunting, and was on deck when the Essex was damaged, with the other two in the water, returning to find Essex in a sinking condition (she remains afloat for at least 2 days, but swamped and on her side).

While she is a whaler, rather than an exploration/survey vessel, the use of a small ship or brig to safely deliver boats for the proper business to be done, is similar in principle.