Hollow needle to make wooden pegs.

[flying_dutchman2]

 

I saw on  a built little wooden pegs created by a hollow 0.65mm needle to be used on the hull of a ship.

Where can I get something like that and are there other diameters? 

 

Thank you in advance.

Marcus 

[allanyed]

Marcus,  assuming the inside diameter is .65mm, the size is about right for treenails in a hull for 1:48 scale.  For smaller scales it is  oversized.  You probably need something like a 21 gage needle like those made by Becton Dickinson and others.   They go down to much smaller diameter as well.

 

Have you tried making treenails with a draw plate?   Bamboo treenails are incredibly strong and easy to make with a good draw plate such as the one from Jim Byrnes.   With a typical hull having upwards of 10,000 treenails, making them with a hypodermic needle is a task most would not want to try.  If your scale is 3/16=1 inch or smaller, treenails will ruin the look and probably be better left off.  Many otherwise beautiful planking jobs on the hull and decks have been ruined with oversized treenails.    There are a number of posts on making these using different methods and different materials from fishing line to wire to different wood species.  

[flying_dutchman2]

@allanyed

Thank you for the detailed information. I will look up the name you gave me. I have not tried a draw plate and I know I should have been doing that a couple of ships back. Smallest scale I built is 1 : 48 and larger. My Fluit, the Zeehaen is 1:37.5.

 

The built I saw it on was from a meber by the name of Ondras. 

 

I've seen builts where the tree nails are too large and it looks horrible. 

I saw how Tosti did it with his Clipper ship and that was very cool the way he did it. 

 

Dutch ships in the 17th century used big black nails of various sizes. Several pictures from the Statenjacht Utrecht book by Ab Hoving shows how it is done. I visit friends in Holland every 2 to 3 years and then visit several maritime museums. Many models on display have black nails. I have used this as well on the Utrecht and a small Dutch merchant ship called a Boyer. I am running out of the nails an I've been researching an alternative. In the US they are called "bank pins". 

 

I will try the draw plate and bamboo. 

 

Marcus 

[allanyed]

Marcus,

You should be pleased with a draw plate but do not go cheap.   One of the best is from Jim Byrnes and is $25.  There are Chinese ones for half the price and they are worth less than half the price.  As is normal, you get what you pay for.  I am sure there are other good quality ones out there and someone may give some info on them for you to check out.

Bamboo skewers are cheap and available everywhere.  Just split them as many times as you can with a sharp blade until the strips will fit in the largest hole on the plate and then go from there.  As you have not done this before, one common mistake is drawing the piece in the wrong direction.  Push through the flat side of the plate and draw/pull out the other side.  

[Bob Cleek]

2 hours ago, allanyed said:

Marcus,

You should be pleased with a draw plate but do not go cheap.   One of the best is from Jim Byrnes and is $25.  There are Chinese ones for half the price and they are worth less than half the price.  As is normal, you get what you pay for.  I am sure there are other good quality ones out there and someone may give some info on them for you to check out.

Bamboo skewers are cheap and available everywhere.  Just split them as many times as you can with a sharp blade until the strips will fit in the largest hole on the plate and then go from there.  As you have not done this before, one common mistake is drawing the piece in the wrong direction.  Push through the flat side of the plate and draw/pull out the other side.  

Ditto. And be aware that there are two types of drawplate, one for drawing wire, which has tapered holes which cause the metal wire when drawn through the plate holes to be compressed and lengthened, and one for wood, which does not have tapered holes, but rather holes with sharp edges which scrape wood off of the wooden piece as it is drawn through the hole, thereby reducing its diameter by subtraction of wood. The excellent Byrnes drawplate is made for wood. You may be surprised by how small the range of holes on the Byrnes drawplate is. If one wishes a larger range of holes, I am unaware of any presently available commercially manufactured drawplate for wood. You will have to make your own, one way or the other. One way is to take a suitable piece of steel and drill the range of sized holes you wish and then flatten and polish the faces of the steel plate so the hole edges are sharp. Alternately, and much more convenient, one can simply purchase a steel drill bit gauge with a suitably sized range of holes and flatten and polish the faces of the drill gauge.

 

 

https://generaltools.com/drill-bit-gauge-1-16-to-by-64ths-fractional-size-with-decimal-equivalents-stainless-steel

Edited May 5, 2021 by Bob Cleek

[flying_dutchman2]

@allanyed, @Bob Cleek,

 

Thank you both for the info. 

 

Marcus 

[Bill Hudson]

I have had good luck using regular drill gauges. On the front sides the hole edges are rounded but from the back side they are sharp edged. I find bamboo cocktail sticks a good source for drawing.  Just split them down to approximate size and start drawing at large holes (they will eventually round out) progressing to smaller sizes.

Bill

[reklein]

Marcus.if you need black nails look for model railroad track nails or for square ones, model railroad spikes . Just clip the heads if you like. Its OK to use model railroad stuff on ships. I won't tell anyone.

[Gregory]

For black, monofilament is good also..

[flying_dutchman2]

@allanyed, @Bob Cleek, @Bill Hudson, @reklein and @Gregory

 

I thank you all for the information and advice. I will definitely get a draw plate and look into model RR nails.

 

The long black nails I presently have so few of were used for my Marklin model RR which I purchased in the 70's and 10 years ago sold all of it on eBay to someone in China. 

 

Marcus