Bill97 Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share #271 Posted July 27, 2021 OK gentlemen, especially those of you with a sharp eye for detail, I need your analysis and critique. After completing the bashing of the hull (sanding, etc) I unfortunately lost long sections of the very vine bee line to follow for the yellow and black stripes on the hull. Using a number of photos I found in the reference books I have and on line I attempted to be pretty accurate with the flow of the lines using my masking tape. If you would please check my attached pictures and let me if any adjustments you recommend. The areas not masked will obviously be the yellow ochre stripes. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted July 27, 2021 Share #272 Posted July 27, 2021 I doubt you'll be far out anywhere Bill, nothing that you can't straighten out with the black by eyeing up when you tape it up for that. Quote Kevin https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ktl_model_shop Current projects: HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller / Scratch, kind of active, depending on the alignment of the planets) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ Cutty Sark 1:96 (More scratch than Revell, parked for now) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Soleil Royal 1:100 (Heller..... and probably some bashing. The one I'm not supposed to be working on yet) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36944-le-soleil-royal-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share #273 Posted July 27, 2021 Thanks Kevin. So you think I am pretty close as to where my divisions lines cut either above, below, or through the gun ports? While I wait for confirmation of my lines to begin painting I have moved to working on the stern. Removing the molded balusters in prep for adding Daniel’s resin balusters. One of the figures on the right side of the stern was defective by a sunken spot in the plastic where the head should be. Going to have to fill and attempt to shape it to match the left side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted July 27, 2021 Share #274 Posted July 27, 2021 This is only a personal view but so long as the stripes follow a natural line, have crisp edges and are reasonably close to the real thing, who'll notice? I doubt the Heller lines are that precise. I guess it's all down to what you're after, true to the real thing or a good representation. I abandoned the former ages ago. You're making huge progress here Bill, at this rate you'll be rigging within the month. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Kevin https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ktl_model_shop Current projects: HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller / Scratch, kind of active, depending on the alignment of the planets) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ Cutty Sark 1:96 (More scratch than Revell, parked for now) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Soleil Royal 1:100 (Heller..... and probably some bashing. The one I'm not supposed to be working on yet) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36944-le-soleil-royal-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share #275 Posted July 27, 2021 Thanks Kevin. If I don’t hear from Ian or Daniel that I am completely wrong I am going to go with this masking. Seriously doubt I will be rigging this year! 😊 Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted July 27, 2021 Share #276 Posted July 27, 2021 Just bear in mind that I'm not speaking from experience here - I haven't painted these yet and do expect that to be 'interesting', as they say. Quote Kevin https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ktl_model_shop Current projects: HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller / Scratch, kind of active, depending on the alignment of the planets) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ Cutty Sark 1:96 (More scratch than Revell, parked for now) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Soleil Royal 1:100 (Heller..... and probably some bashing. The one I'm not supposed to be working on yet) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36944-le-soleil-royal-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted July 27, 2021 Share #277 Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) Hey Bill, Don't completely trust Heller's bee lines. If you compared to photos that's great. I would, however, offer up the quarter galleries to your hulls before you paint and make sure the ocher bee lines meet nicely with the lower two levels of gallery windows. ps: nice balusters... Edited July 27, 2021 by Ian_Grant Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share #278 Posted July 27, 2021 Great idea on the quarter galleries Ian. I will do that before I finalize my masking. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share #279 Posted July 28, 2021 Ian I read your recommendation again and looked at the attached photo. Can you further explain what you mean by “offer up the quarter galleries to your hulls before you paint and make sure the ocher bee lines meet nicely with the lower two levels of gallery windows.” In this photo there does not seem to be a meeting of the hull lines to the quarter gallery. I may be a little confused what you are advising me. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Grant Posted July 28, 2021 Share #280 Posted July 28, 2021 It's hard to say from that photo because the actual meeting of hull and forward edge of the 1/4 gallery is out of sight "round the bend". I've just been looking and I cannot find a closeup stock photo of the 1/4 galleries taken from forward. I thought the upper two beelines merged nicely with the lower two rows of gallery windows, indeed this is what my copy of Geoff Hunt's "England Expects" seems to show, as here: That's how I painted mine, as here: However it seems one of the beelines might not be so aligned: The first beeline lines up with the gallery windows as expected. The second beeline just misses the lower sill of last middle gun deck port, and ends up above 1/4 gallery sill. Mine also just misses the last gun port sill, yet aligns with the gallery windows. So I may have mis-spoke, as the politicians say 😁. Sorry to distract. I'm sure your beelines will be fine. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share #281 Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Oh no Ian. That’s great. I understand from your photos now. Is that your Victory you included a photo of. Beautiful job! I do see what you mean by the stripes lining up smoothly with the windows in the quarter gallery. I found these stock photos that help as well. Edited July 28, 2021 by Bill97 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dafi Posted July 28, 2021 Share #282 Posted July 28, 2021 Oh great, they are adding weathering effects to look more realistic 😉 Hy Bill, basically the lines look good. If I remember well, the Heller lines are different from one side to the other. Also the old rule said to follow the gun ports as you did, probably as for the Nelson checkers. Newer resarch also indicates, that the checker could have not been there at Trafalgar and the lines followed the wales. So the choice is yours 🙂 Just have a look that the lines look harmonically, running smooth and also that the widths correspond to each other. And I think it a good idea to fix the side galleries temporarily to better judge the situation. Great job on removing the old balusters. As for the small scars in the surface, do not forget to fill up with some putty. All the best, Daniel Mexspur 1 Quote To victory and beyond! http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/ See also our german forum for Sailing Ship Modeling and History: http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com/ Finest etch parts for HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller Kit), USS Constitution 1:96 (Revell) and other useful bits. http://dafinismus.de/index_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share #283 Posted July 28, 2021 Thanks Daniel. Always appreciate your advice. In the below picture (if you zoom in) you can see how nicely the rigols came out. Have a bit of primer on them. dafi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted July 28, 2021 Share #284 Posted July 28, 2021 Apart from everyone else’s excellent suggestions, I think it is always a good idea to sight the beelines with your eye close to the hull; look from bow to stern for a fair run, and then again from stern to bow. Because there is such a stark contrast between the black and yellow, you want to make sure there aren’t any unwanted flats or wobble in your lines. They should all be fair, smooth curves. Ian_Grant and dafi 2 Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share #285 Posted July 29, 2021 Thanks gentlemen. I hope to finalize my masking lines tomorrow. Downloaded a few more pictures from other builders to further cause my analysis paralysis! 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share #286 Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) Yellow ochre stripes painted! This was more time consuming than it should have been! Gray color is undercoat where black will go. Then the copper bottom of the hull. Edited July 31, 2021 by Bill97 Ian_Grant, Jeff T, Old Collingwood and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted July 31, 2021 Share #287 Posted July 31, 2021 Bee lines look very good, Bill! Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share #288 Posted July 31, 2021 Thanks guys. So you think good to go as is? On to the black then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share #289 Posted July 31, 2021 My majestic lady is coming alive! Duanelaker, Hubac's Historian and Jeff T 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted July 31, 2021 Share #290 Posted July 31, 2021 Superb! Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted July 31, 2021 Author Share #291 Posted July 31, 2021 Thank you Hubac. So nice of you to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted August 1, 2021 Author Share #292 Posted August 1, 2021 Both sides of hull exterior painted except for copper bottom! Dry fitted to make sure bee lines flow together. Much more to go on hull halves. Paint copper at the bottom, cannon hatches red inside, and all the inside of the hull painting to go as well as drilling all the tiny holes for the hatch ropes. Old Collingwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted August 1, 2021 Author Share #293 Posted August 1, 2021 Wow. Pictures don’t lie. I can see in my photo that on the port side below third cannon hatch I need a little work on black line v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share #294 Posted August 3, 2021 Wow! What a mess up today! 🤯 As you saw in my previous pictures I have both sides of the hull painted with the black and yellow ochre stripes. Spent many hours getting them as smooth as I could. Today I decided before I scratch or in any way mess them up I was going to put a flat clear top coat on it. Purpose was to provide a hard protective surface. I have always used a clear spray can product from a well known spray paint producer. Never had a problem in the past. Again I emphasize IN THE PAST! Set both halves on my work bench in my garage (where I spray paints that are not good to spray indoors). Gave the starboard half a nice thin coat. Looked nice. All good. Then gave the port side a simile coat. WHAT THE &$@(%> IS THIS? Across my beautiful painted stripes on my hull half was what appeared to a light white paint! 🤯🤯. All across my black and yellow lines! No idea what caused it. I sprayed a few places on some news paper and there was a little more white then went crystal clear again. Heart broken and saying a few not very church like words I let it thoroughly dry then started the process of repainting my lines to cover the mysterious white residue. As a result my paint layers are a little thicker than I would have preferred. But I am not going to strip it all off and start over. Checked on line later to see if any reports of similar issue. Apparently high humidity can cause this. But the humidity was not that high today. Will forever be a mystery. Not a mystery that I will never spray my ship with this product again. I did not take picture of disaster but below is a photo of my repair work and you can see a little of the white on what will be the copper area. The picture also shows in some areas I am going to have to sand it down because the paint thickness caused it to crack. You will notice I have started painting the inside edge of gun hatches red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72Nova Posted August 3, 2021 Share #295 Posted August 3, 2021 Bill, Not sure what paints you used, but obviously an incompatibility issue and you mentioned this happened on the port side and not starboard? looks to me like you went a little heavy on the clear and it attacked color coat. I use acrylic paints and seal with a Lacquer dulcoat in light coats and never had issue. This is unfortunate as you were moving along nicely, but for me the only solution would be to strip it off, but I would first try to see if I could sand enough to get rid of the cracks, either way a repaint.😝 Michael D. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Completed: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/20561-reale-de-france-by-72nova-finished-heller/ HMS Victory 1765: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPrp-3y7ntwH1vwfFsMMf0bWByRebwVKqePmRLqCx3aptq5sMlGZp_LtYv0v-seiQ?key=RWdjbWRKQWs2X1JSaDAyVTRuMHk5U3dOTHJCSDVB Completed: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33007-vasa-by-72nova-airfix-plastic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share #296 Posted August 3, 2021 Not sure either Michael. This is what I have always used over Vallejo acrylics. I don’t think it was a reaction to the acrylics because I also had areas of white on the newspaper I had under the hull sections. I think it was a defective spray can. Either way I am undertaking fixing it. The port side was not affected to much and the repair was easy. The starboard side, which was the second section sprayed, fared worse. I was able to repaint all the lines, still have some fine tuning to do, but did end up with some unwanted build up near the middle. I am sanding it down and will make it right. Very little, if any, cracking as I go toward bow and stern. It is kind of funny. I wondered if it were not for my friends here on MSW if I might have just lived with the cracking. Now that I have several friendly judges I decided I better fix it, and I am glad I am. Thank you guys for keeping me building at the quality level this ship deserves. Mexspur and Hubac's Historian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72Nova Posted August 3, 2021 Share #297 Posted August 3, 2021 Actually this is a good thing Bill, gives you a chance to knock down the pronounced raised grain and create a more natural looking grain with the sandpaper, something I wished I had done on my Victory...happy sanding my friend👍 Michael D. Quote Completed: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/20561-reale-de-france-by-72nova-finished-heller/ HMS Victory 1765: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPrp-3y7ntwH1vwfFsMMf0bWByRebwVKqePmRLqCx3aptq5sMlGZp_LtYv0v-seiQ?key=RWdjbWRKQWs2X1JSaDAyVTRuMHk5U3dOTHJCSDVB Completed: https://modelshipworld.com/topic/33007-vasa-by-72nova-airfix-plastic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill97 Posted August 3, 2021 Author Share #298 Posted August 3, 2021 Your right Michael. I sanded it down and it does look better. Hubac I think you and I have birthdays coming up here pretty soon. You on the 11th and me the 15th! Of course I have 21 more years! ☹️ Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin-the-lubber Posted August 3, 2021 Share #299 Posted August 3, 2021 Bill, to add a useless comment (I'm full of these), you probably wouldn't have been able to get such a nice craqueleur if you'd tried 🙄. Commiserations my friend, it does seem like this model is often two steps forward, one step back..... and sometimes the reverse. Hubac's Historian 1 Quote Kevin https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ktl_model_shop Current projects: HMS Victory 1:100 (Heller / Scratch, kind of active, depending on the alignment of the planets) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/23247-hms-victory-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic-with-3d-printed-additions/ Cutty Sark 1:96 (More scratch than Revell, parked for now) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30964-cutty-sark-by-kevin-the-lubber-revell-196 Soleil Royal 1:100 (Heller..... and probably some bashing. The one I'm not supposed to be working on yet) https://modelshipworld.com/topic/36944-le-soleil-royal-by-kevin-the-lubber-heller-1100-plastic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubac's Historian Posted August 3, 2021 Share #300 Posted August 3, 2021 12 minutes ago, Bill97 said: Your right Michael. I sanded it down and it does look better. Hubac I think you and I have birthdays coming up here pretty soon. You on the 11th and me the 15th! Of course I have 21 more years! ☹️ Yes, three cheers for the big cats! 48, this summer. Summer of 69 for you, Bill? Quote We are all works in progress, all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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