HMS Victory by Bill97 - FINISHED - Heller - 1/100 - PLASTIC

[Ian_Grant]

Hello Twahl; you're on the same path I followed - a Heller Victory after 30 years away from models!

 

You're right, some of the wood blocks on the market are very square-ish and unrealistic. Have you looked at Syren's offerings? They make very nice blocks which I used on my Victory.

 

Having said that, they do add a fairly high cost to the build.

 

RJ's filing method will make the Heller blocks usable as far as stropping goes, but IMO the sheaves are molded far too small and the openings are too large. They are nicely shaped blocks though. When/if I get to my Soleil Royale I will weigh the time and trouble of modifying and painting Heller's blocks vs the cost of wood blocks.

 

Bear in mind that Heller's deadeyes are also unusable so there will be an after-market expense to replace them anyway!

 

Looking forward to another Victory build log! 🙂

[Bill97]

Hello Twahl thank you for kind words. I have not seen the Rj video on YouTube.  I need to watch it. To be honest I have used wood blocks, the Heller supplied blocks, and some 3D printed blocks I got from a friend to rig this model. In most cases if you do a nice paint job on the plastic ones they are just fine. The main thing I have found that I prefer about the wood blocks is the ones I got have a tiny grove around he exterior on the opposite side of the opening. That little grove seems to make rigging the block easier in that it holds the thread in place while tiring knots. Which etched sheets from Dafi did you get?  Have you started a build blog?  I will look for it. 

 

P.S.  I like you, got back into modeling after many many years. Kids, work, etc. made spending a lot of time on this hobby difficult. Retired now I am really enjoying it again. Please feel free to bombard me with questions if you need. That is the way MSW works. I asked and learned from others, as I am sure you have noticed in this thread, and will gladly play it forward. 

[Bill97]

Twahl following your comment above I searched the Rj YouTube video. That is exactly what I was talking about reference the little grove on each side. I had not seen the video before. For the Heller blocks I used an exacto knife to make the channel instead of files the way Rj did. The result is basically the same. You may want to experiment with modifying the Heller blocks and maybe purchase a small quantity of wood blocks to try.  As you will notice the Heller blocks are various sizes which will require you to purchase similar size wood blocks if you decide to go that route. And depending on what you want to spend on wooden blocks you will find a range of quality and cost. I agree with Ian on the deadeyes. I am using wooden deadeyes. Especially if you are getting Dafi’s etched plate 3. It has the brass irons for all the deadeyes. If you go to the expense of Dafi’s sheet might as well go with better deadeyes. I got two sizes I am using on my Victory. As several other builders told me along the way, remember it is your model and for your pleasure. You just build it the way you want. I am sure it will be beautiful either way when completed. 

[Twahl]

Thank you for the replies.  I ordered all of the Dafi etch sheets except for the grate one.  I also ordered a few of his resin pieces.  I'm planning on ordering wood dead eyes, I think I would need 3mm and 5mm. Does that sound correct? I was going to order the Amati rope kit from hismodel and the larger ropes from Syren. Would those be good options? I've picked up Longridges book, HMS Victory by Eastland, and rigging period ship models. I've never rigged a model ship before so this is all going to be new to me.  But I'm looking forward to the challenge.  

 

I haven't started a build log yet, I'm not really sure how to and I think it would be lacking compared to others I've seen here. I'm still working so I'll only be able to devote a few hours a week to the hobby.  It's been a nice respite from the stresses of my job, especially the research part such as reading build logs, reading books, and watching YouTube videos.  I look forward to any advice you can offer and if there's anything else you think I should pick up or suggestions you have I'd appreciate it.  

[Kevin-the-lubber]

I'd recommend starting a build log here straight away, many of us are relatively new or returning after a long hiatus and people here are hugely supportive and helpful. The instructions are on the main page. Re' wooden blocks, I was very impressed with the samples sent to me by Hismodel when I bought some PE from him recently. One other 'must have' book is John McKay's 'The 100-gun ship Victory (Anatomy of the ship).

[Bill97]

Finished the rigging of the main mast (shrouds and futtock staves) except for the ratlines which I most likely won’t do until I complete the running rigging. The futtock stave on the top mast shrouds was a bit of a head scratch. As you can see in the one picture with the card I will use later for ratlines spacing, I have the stave parallel with the mast top below it and all the future ratlines. However when I remove the card the stave looks crooked in comparison to the top mast block. I expect that is the result of the slight rake of the main mast. 

[Bill97]

Twahl you are getting more from Dafi than I did. I just got sheets 3 and 4 and the resin stern balusters and figure head.  You should do great with them. Yes 3mm and 5mm deadeyes should do you fine. I have not used the Amati rope or Syren rope. I hate to admit it but to save an already budget busting model I ordered less quality rigging thread from Amazon. Heller definitely did not give you all you need for thread in the kit. You will need various sizes of both black and tan. Since you said you have not rigged a model ship before I will throw in a little tip here. Black thread is used for standing rigging and tan is used for running rigging. The fact that you say you have not rigged a ship before I must advise you the rigging of the Victory is a monumental task. Depending on when you purchased your model you either got the old Heller instructions which are useless for rigging or the new Heller booklet which appears to be more user friendly. As several builders here on MSW told me, when it comes to rigging the model if you have the old instructions put them away. As Ian has convinced me, read Longridge’s book starting at the rigging chapters over and over. Soon a light will go off and it will make since. I have been working on my Victory almost a full year and still ask so many questions. Just don’t get frustrated and give up. 
As Kevin said, start a blog. It is easy. It makes asking questions so much easier when you can include pictures and explain the difficulty you might be having. 
Happy modeling. 
Bill

[Ian_Grant]

Twahl,  Unfortunately I believe I read here on MSW that Syren no longer sells rigging line. You can however buy their rope walk kit and make your own, or just buy some other make. I used Amati thread and was happy with it at the Victory's scale. All the diameters required are available.

 

I agree with Bill about the Longridge book, obviously since I've been quoting it to him all along! 🙂

Edited April 4, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Ian_Grant]

Bill,

 

Saw your pictures above, and I can see why you rigged the topgallant shrouds the way you did, given the treatment of the topmast shrouds and futtocks, but in actual fact the topgallant shrouds are rigged differently.  Instead of being tied off at the topmast futtock stave, they pass between the topmast shrouds above the stave then carry on down inside the shrouds to the mast top to which they are attached by  pairs of thimbles, and lashings, to the deadeye strops.

 

Longridge describes this in words on pg 233. There is also a picture showing a topgallant stay lashed to a deadeye strop on the mast top.

 

I think you have Petersson too?  He has a nice picture on pg 11.

 

Here's a pic of my model's main top. You can see the topgallant shrouds inside the topmast shrouds (smaller black lines with no ratline clove hitches) and the thimbles and lashings at their feet.

 

Hope I caught you before you did another mast! 😉

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

Yes Tawhl, Ian a long way back convinced me Longridge’s book is the answer to this model. To this day it still surprises me that I can look and look through the book for an answer. When I can’t find it I ask Ian. He immediately tells me the page and diagram where to find the answer. I still think his name is Ian Longridge 😊.  Where you may struggle, I know I did, is nautical terminology. In Longridge’s book as well as in others, here on MSW, and other sources, you will be introduced to so many nautical terms for rigging lines as well as where they begin and end. Initially you will say “I have no idea what the line is or what that beginning point or ending point term is!” When that happens don’t throw your hands up in frustration. Trust me I went through that many times. Thankfully the books you got have a pretty good index. Just research the word and/or term, refer to the pages and diagrams, and if necessary ask. If you are like me all of a sudden a light will come on and it will all make since. Prior to building the Victory I constructed other ships that had step by step instructions telling me to tie a string from point A to point B. Kind of like a paint by number set. No information as to what that line actually served on the ship. Once you begin to understand the physics of these beautiful ships it begins to make since. Oh by the way I have really gotta lot of use out of my thread serving machine. 

[Bill97]

Thank you Ian. See Tawhl I am still learning. I definitely have the top gallant shrouds wrong. So there are 3 sets of thimbles on each side of the mast top inside the topmast shroud deadeyes?  Luckily I don’t have those top gallant shrouds permanently fixed yet. I can still fix this. Thanks again My friend. 

[Chuck]

 

11 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

MSW that Syren no longer sells rigging line.

Just an FYI,  Syren is fully stocked with rope and still sells it.  I will be doing so for the long term now that I have found much needed help to keep Syren Ultra Scale Rope stocked regularly.  Here is a look at it on a model with the rigging process well underway.

 

[Ian_Grant]

That's a model??!! 😲😮

 

Fantastic looking rope!

 

Sorry Chuck for spreading lies ..... 🤐

[Veszett Roka]

19 minutes ago, Ian_Grant said:

That's a model??!! 😲😮

 

Fantastic looking rope!

 

Sorry Chuck for spreading lies ..... 🤐

 

 

[Bill97]

Beautiful rope Chuck!  I will have to look into using it when I start my Soleli Royal. I spent so much on after market stuff for my Victory I had to cut back somewhere. 

[Bill97]

Ian I read the section on page 233 you referred me to and understand what I am supposed to do with the topgallant shrouds. Thanks again. Fig 163 in Longridge’s book helps a lot.  Hope you can explain this one sentence in that paragraph. 
 

Tawhl here is an example of what I was talking about reference nautical terminology and hoping Ian, or someone, else can put in layman’s language. 
 

“A rope grommet or ring, like a deck quoit, is put over the head before the rigging and rests on the stop of the hounds.” 😳

[Ian_Grant]

It's just a piece of rope spliced into a continuous loop, ie like a grommet or ring as Longridge says. It's made to fit tightly round the topgallant mast and is pushed down until it hits the shoulder on the top of the hounds. It just acts as a "pad" between the 1st pair of shrouds and the "sharp" edge of the wooden hounds to prevent abrasion on the shroud fibres. On a 1/100 scale ship it can be omitted. I did.

 

A deck quoit is a rope ring which used to be used as a game on passenger ships, much like ring toss.  Being aboard a ship, rope is a naturally available material. 🙂

[Bill97]

Thanks Ian. You are the best!  I knew you, if anybody, would know 😀.  I will just omit it as well. 

[Bill97]

Guys I just noticed we past the 1000 comment mark on my build!  April 15th will be 10 months since I opened the box and began this quest. What a fun, exciting, frustrating, educational, and friend building experience this has been. Thanks so much to all of you that have contributed to the help and advice I have needed along the way. 

[Bill97]

Ok Ian I have the topgallant shrouds set up the way I think Longridge’s book, and you describe. I have 3 thimbles attached to the top mast shroud deadeyes on each side that I will lash the bottom end of the topgallant shroud too using another thimble attached to the bottom of the shroud. 👍

My curiosity, and I am looking for thumbs up, is this. The topgallant shrouds in this situation rub up against the back of the futtock stave to the point they bend. Is this correct or have I got something wrong?

[Ian_Grant]

Bill, that's right. Keep going!

 

By the way I was just looking through my copy of "last of the Windships" to see if there was a photo of how the boats were lashed down and I came across this shot of someone ascending the futtock shrouds. God knows how he got his right foot onto the top; my gangly knees would be a serious hindrance!

 

No safety harness of course.............🤔

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Bill97]

I agree with you completely on that picture Ian. No way in the world I could accomplish that. 
 

Thanks for the confirmation on my topgallant shrouds! Will continue on. There is one other question I had for you Ian but forgot to ask in my last comment. The below picture (Fig 161) shows the sister blocks between the 1st and 2nd top mast shrouds. I assume I will need to do this with blocks for later, and can I just use two regular blocks seized top, middle, and bottom of the blocks on the two shrouds?

[Ian_Grant]

Yes, I believe I glued two blocks together and tied them at top, middle, and bottom, as you say.

[Bill97]

Ian I picked these up at the library yesterday. Which do you recommend I read first?

[Ian_Grant]

Mr. Midshipman is the first in the series, chronologically (they were written out of order, amazingly enough).

[Twahl]

After all of your encouragement and confidence I started my own build log.  I really appreciate all of the advice and help I've already received.  I just hope mine turns out even a fraction as good as yours and Ian's.

[Bill97]

It will be beautiful Twahl. I will look for your build log. 

[Bill97]

A little work update. Limited time in the ship yard last couple days. 
Finished the mainmast top gallant shrouds the way they are supposed to be done. Lower end of shroud attached to a thimble which is lashed to another thimble tied to the back side of the top mast shroud deadeyes. Also attached the futtock staves to the foremast lower shrouds and attached the foremast futtock shrouds to the loops on the top mast deadeyes. Ready to tie them to the futtock stave. 

[Ian_Grant]

Bill, you're just flying through this, as usual. Looking good!

[Bill97]

Working on my rigging I would have to say the part that I have found so far to be the most frustrating and tedious has been the futtock shrouds and the catherpins where they meet at the futtock stave. Getting them all somewhat taught without pulling the lower shrouds out of alignment was a struggle my first attempt when I did it for the main mast. Had to use a knot of sorts that I could easily loosen or tighten on each line. Tighten one another sagged loose. 😤

For my next go at it for the foremast I came up with an idea that seems to work perfectly. My futtock staves are a little longer than I need and I will clip them off shorter once finished. For now that extra length works perfectly for my process. I have the staves already tied to the shrouds where I want them and a touch of glue at each knot. Once they were secured in place I got a couple craft sticks (popsicle sticks) and marked two exactly where the end of the stave is. I then clamped them together and drilled holes through each the diameter of the brass stave. When I unclamped them I had two sticks with holes exactly matching the distance the staves are apart. I then slipped the staves over the ends of the staves and put on a little clamp to hold on place. With this complete I can now tie all 4 catherpins taught because the sticks maintain the uniform distance between the staves. I can also now tie each of the futtock shrouds to the staves without effecting other shrouds or the catherpins.