lraymo Posted January 10 Author #211 Posted January 10 Starting over is so hard! I've forgotten alot of what i was doing. But getting back into it, i'm trying to finish up the chainplates. I had started one, and thought i'd make the other 5 before installing them all, but in looking at the little tiny holes, I can't for the llife of me figure out how I made them??? The brass strip is 1/16", and I am trying to use a #61 little drill bit for my little finger drill, but it doesn't want to go through the brass strip. Is that the right tool? I did it before, but can't figure out how! PS - pay no attention to the rudimentary work. It'll take awhile to get good at this! GrandpaPhil, davec, Paul Le Wol and 2 others 5 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
vossiewulf Posted January 11 #212 Posted January 11 I'm not sure either without a drill press that can handle #61 bits. The problem with the narrow strip is that it's really hard to mark it enough to prevent the drill bit from skating without also distorting the strip. Not to mention distorting the strip in the actual drilling. I think you used magic. Did you use magic? Paul Le Wol, lraymo and Keith Black 3 Building HM Cutter Lady Nelson 1:64
Keith Black Posted January 11 #213 Posted January 11 Lynn, most likely is the #61 drill bit has dulled. As much as we would like for you to have magic fingers I'm betting the bit has dulled. Is the 61 the smallest you have? Paul Le Wol and lraymo 1 1 Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration
Cathead Posted January 11 #214 Posted January 11 Lynn, a trick I sometimes use when trying to drill a difficult hole, is to drill a small pilot hole with a much smaller bit and then follow up with the actual larger bit. What this does is help guide the real bit not to jump or skate around as you get started. The tiny bit is easier to hold in place as it gets going. You can also try making a dimple in the material with some kind of sharp object (like a nail) that will also help hold the bit's tip in place while it gets started. It's easier to "punch" a dimple into metal than it is to get a spinning drill bit to stay exactly where it's put on a smooth surface. This is even helpful when combined with the small pilot hole trick. Keith Black and lraymo 1 1 Eric Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1893 steamboat Peerless; 1853 steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West; Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch
lraymo Posted January 11 Author #215 Posted January 11 16 hours ago, vossiewulf said: I think you used magic. Did you use magic? Apparently I did 😁! Maybe its time to buy some new tools, like a drill press! 16 hours ago, Keith Black said: I'm betting the bit has dulled. Is the 61 the smallest you have? You are probably right. It seems dull. My #61 is actually the BIGGEST I have. I'll try using a smaller size! 3 hours ago, Cathead said: a trick I sometimes use when trying to drill a difficult hole, is to drill a small pilot hole with a much smaller bit This sounds like a good approach. I will try it. And my practice drilling had the bit jumping and sliding all over the place, so I will try to make a "dimple" with the smallest nail I can find. Thanks for all the advice! I'll keep plugging away! Keith Black, Cathead and GrandpaPhil 3 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
lraymo Posted January 13 Author #216 Posted January 13 A bit of success! These chainplates don't look all that great, but for me, my goal was to make 5 of them, with three tiny holes in each of the 1/16" strips of brass. I found a couple alternative options, since my little drill bits weren't working. I could buy a mini drill press for $129!!! OR use a thumbtack and a little "reamer" tool I already had! I went for the cheaper option! These still need alot of work, but hey, I have achieved HOLES! I hammered the thumbtack in a little bit, but if it went too far, it would create too big a hole and split the brass. So I only hammered it in about 1/8", and then used the reaming tool to open up the hole to the correct diameter. It was still difficult to keep the hole in the exact center of the strip, but they'll look better (I hope!) once they're installed, painted, and the little nails are attached! GrandpaPhil, Cathead, ccoyle and 3 others 6 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
Keith Black Posted January 13 #217 Posted January 13 Lynn, we've all been where you were, not having the right tool for a job or the correct tool not working as it should. But we preserver using whatever it takes to accomplish the goal. Love seeing the perseverance, good job. Cathead, lraymo and Ryland Craze 3 Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration
lraymo Posted January 14 Author #218 Posted January 14 Thanks Keith! This model will take a looong time to finish, but hopefully I'm learning alot along the way! Keith Black 1 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
lraymo Posted January 20 Author #219 Posted January 20 Question: I tried to paint the brass chainplates with the black paint that came with the kit, but the paint wouldn't stay on the brass. Is there a special black paint I should use? (I may not paint them anyway, but for future knowledge, what paint works best on brass?) Keith Black 1 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
vossiewulf Posted January 20 #220 Posted January 20 9 minutes ago, lraymo said: but the paint wouldn't stay on the brass You need to use a primer first on brass. And even then you need to be done bending/manipulating the parts because even with priming, they will shed their paint and primer if bent. An alternative that is somewhat more durable is using a brass blackening agent. Keith Black, lraymo and Ryland Craze 3 Building HM Cutter Lady Nelson 1:64
Dr PR Posted January 20 #221 Posted January 20 It helps to rough the surface of brass with fine sandpaper or steel wool before painting or blackening. This gives the metal some "tooth" for the paint to grip. But use very fine abrasives so you don't gouge deep scratches in the metal. Use 400 to 600 grit sandpaper or #0000 steel wool. Also, be sure the brass is very clean! Wash it with acetone or rubbing alcohol to remove grease and fingerprints. I sometimes wash with dish detergent and rinse thoroughly before washing with acetone or alcohol - just to be sure. You can also etch the surface with acetic acid (vinegar) or Sparex (sodium bisulfate). Vinegar does a minimal job, and is slow. Warm Sparex does a better job. If you are trying to blacken a large surface etching first will produce a more even coating. vossiewulf, lraymo and Keith Black 3 Phil Current build: USS Cape MSI-2 Current build: Albatros topsail schooner Previous build: USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 CAD model
Keith Black Posted January 20 #222 Posted January 20 I dare say the paint that came with the kit probably isn't the best in the world. You can try upgrading to a better paint like Scalecoat, Lynn. It's expensive and seems to be hard to find. I see it on eBay for thirty bucks for two ounces. lraymo 1 Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration
Cathead Posted January 20 #223 Posted January 20 I agree with the other suggestions above: make sure you're done working with the metal piece, clean it well and handle it carefully, abrade the surface, and consider using a primer first. The biggest difference I've seen with Model Shipways paint vs. other brands is the former tends to be much thicker. This isn't necessarily bad, for example it makes a solid coat on things like metal and plastic when using a brush, where thinner paints sometimes don't coat easily. I'd also suggest, as in so many cases, practicing on some scrap material first to see what methods produce the best result. Brass blackening agents work very well, and I've also had success using a blackener followed by a coat of paint. But a warning: blackeners are fairly strong chemical agents and they will produce fumes; not something to use lightly in your living room or a confined workspace. Consider doing blackening in a garage or outdoors setting where the fumes can dissipate while you're not around. I've gotten multiple headaches from being around blackening fumes even for a short time. lraymo, Keith Black and Ryland Craze 3 Eric Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1893 steamboat Peerless; 1853 steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West; Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch
lraymo Posted January 29 Author #224 Posted January 29 Thanks for all the good ideas and suggestions! Not sure I'll paint these little chainplates, but your info is good to know. At any rate, won't be working on the model for a bit... making a quick trip to Florida to see some friends (but I'll be back in a week!) Ryland Craze, Keith Black and Cathead 3 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
Keith Black Posted January 30 #225 Posted January 30 5 hours ago, lraymo said: making a quick trip to Florida to see some friends (but I'll be back in a week!) Safe journey, Lynn. Have a good time. Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration
lraymo Posted February 10 Author #226 Posted February 10 I'm home from Florida, where it was 78 degrees, back to the cold midwest! Bummer, but starting up again on my chainplates. I finished one chainplate. I am truly embarrassed to post this picture. I had trouble with everything, including super-glue, which I had to scrap off the hull (along with some paint). The chainplate itself, and the little nails were hard to deal with, because my fingers aren't tiny, but the biggest trouble was the deadeye, for which I used superglue to affix to the ship. Sadly, i also inadvertantly filled up the three holes with glue, and now there's no way to get the rigging thru those holes. I may have to soak the deadeye in nail polish remover just to get the holes opened up. Is there a better glue to use for this work? I was trying hard not to glue my fingers together (I used gloves), but its hard to work with gloves on! This looks really bad. But i figure if I keep trying, I might get better one day! Cathead and Keith Black 2 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
vossiewulf Posted February 10 #227 Posted February 10 7 minutes ago, lraymo said: Is there a better glue to use for this work? CA needs to be applied VERY sparingly, there should never be extra glue or squeeze out to get on other surfaces. I put the CA into a very small tattooist's ink cup, and apply it in very small drops using a piece of 32 gauge wire. Remember the old TV advertisement, you can suspend your own weight with one drop of CA- you need to use a lot less than that to hold a chainplate together. Cathead, Keith Black and lraymo 3 Building HM Cutter Lady Nelson 1:64
Keith Black Posted February 10 #228 Posted February 10 I agree with Vossie, Lynn. Use CA sparingly, I use CA almost exclusively but I apply it with a homemade needle applicator. It's just a beading needle stuck in the end of a coffee stir stick. Soak what you've done in acetone (or fingernail polish remover) and get it all cleaned up. You can run the correct size small drill through the deadeye holes to open them up. Cathead, vossiewulf and lraymo 3 Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration
lraymo Posted February 14 Author #229 Posted February 14 On 2/10/2025 at 5:19 PM, vossiewulf said: I put the CA into a very small tattooist's ink cup, and apply it in very small drops using a piece of 32 gauge wire. Thanks Vossie. I like the idea of using the wire! On 2/10/2025 at 5:35 PM, Keith Black said: I use CA almost exclusively but I apply it with a homemade needle applicator. thanks Keith, I may try your applicator idea too! My first chainplate was an epic fail! And when I tried to drill out the deadeye holes, it broke apart! But here's chainplate number two, using MUCH LESS superglue and being way more careful! There's still alot wrong with this one, but its much better than my first attempt! And i have 4 more to go, so I'm hoping each one is better than the last! (It looks like the deadeye holes are clogged, but they are open. It's just not a very good picture from my phone!) vossiewulf, Keith Black, ccoyle and 1 other 4 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
vossiewulf Posted February 14 #230 Posted February 14 14 minutes ago, lraymo said: But here's chainplate number two, using MUCH LESS superglue and being way more careful! Huge improvement! Keith Black and lraymo 2 Building HM Cutter Lady Nelson 1:64
Keith Black Posted February 15 #231 Posted February 15 I agree with Vossie, Lynn. Much much better, you're well on your way now. lraymo 1 Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration
Cathead Posted February 15 #232 Posted February 15 Great improvement! One subtle detail for the rest of the deadeyes: in the triangular pattern of holes, the "triangle" should be upside down, with two holes even across the top and the single one at the bottom. Lots of people don't realize this and put the deadeyes in any which way. It's the kind of detail only pedantic people notice, but it will make rigging a bit easier to have the holes oriented properly and reduce lines tangling or crossing over one another. The opposite is true for the deadeye that will eventually connect to this one. See this diagram posted elsewhere on MSW. Keith Black and lraymo 2 Eric Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1893 steamboat Peerless; 1853 steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West; Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch
lraymo Posted February 15 Author #233 Posted February 15 17 hours ago, Keith Black said: you're well on your way now. Thanks Keith. One question... when I open a new bottle or tube of superglue, how do i keep the cap from permanently sticking on, when I try to replace the cap? i keep losing superglue, because when i try to open it a second time, the cap seems permanently stuck! 3 hours ago, Cathead said: the "triangle" should be upside down Thanks Eric, that's a great tip! It makes sense, and I really appreciate the diagram! Also, are you currently working on a model? Which one? One more question... the deadeye is SO tiny, that my fingers seem too big to handle it. If I buy a larger scale model, will the deadeyes be much bigger? And if so, what's the best "larger scale" i should look for? This is 1/8"=1 ft. I saw a larger model of the same ship at 1:48 (I think that's bigger, but i have a hard time translating scale info!) Is there a better size for me? (Not that I'm giving up, but I'm a bit discouraged, and wondering if I bit off more than I can handle!) Keith Black 1 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
vossiewulf Posted February 15 #234 Posted February 15 10 minutes ago, lraymo said: One question... when I open a new bottle or tube of superglue, how do i keep the cap from permanently sticking on, when I try to replace the cap? i keep losing superglue, because when i try to open it a second time, the cap seems permanently stuck! You keep the superglue bottle in your refrigerator. It won't go off in the bottle and stick the cap. lraymo and Keith Black 2 Building HM Cutter Lady Nelson 1:64
Keith Black Posted February 15 #235 Posted February 15 25 minutes ago, vossiewulf said: You keep the superglue bottle in your refrigerator. It won't go off in the bottle and stick the cap. Vossie, I've not heard of that before, interesting. Lynn, if I take the time, I take a paper towel and clean the tippy by twisting the paper towel around the tip. My super glue bottles get pretty grungy because I'm kinda lazy and often I have to brute force open a used bottle, that way I get my exercise. lraymo 1 Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration
vossiewulf Posted February 15 #236 Posted February 15 5 minutes ago, Keith Black said: Vossie, I've not heard of that before, interesting. I buy the big 8oz bottles of glue from Bob Smith Industries and keep them in my fridge. I just had to replace them all because I moved, but the previous bottles had lasted for 8 years. I'm very careful dispensing glue from the bottles to my tattooist ink cups, and generally a quick wipe from a finger or a piece of cloth removes any excess. lraymo and Keith Black 2 Building HM Cutter Lady Nelson 1:64
lraymo Posted February 15 Author #237 Posted February 15 56 minutes ago, vossiewulf said: You keep the superglue bottle in your refrigerator. Thanks Vossie! I'll try that! 27 minutes ago, Keith Black said: I have to brute force open a used bottle, that way I get my exercise HaHa! Maybe I should've tried harder on the tube I just trashed! vossiewulf and Keith Black 1 1 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
Cathead Posted February 15 #238 Posted February 15 2 hours ago, lraymo said: Also, are you currently working on a model? Which one? Lynn, thanks for your interest. I'm not currently working on a nautical model, taking a break from that to work on a model railroad project. Not one I'm writing up on MSW for now, though every now and then I get the itch to share, though I also enjoy the break from having to photograph and write up everything. Keith Black and lraymo 2 Eric Missouri River craft (scratchbuilt): 1893 steamboat Peerless; 1853 steamboat Arabia; 1865 steamboat Bertrand; Lewis & Clark barge; keelboat; 1876 steamboat Far West; Nautical builds (kits): USS Cairo; NRG capstan project; NRG half-hull; Viking longship; US revenue cutter; 18th century longboat; Bounty launch
Keith Black Posted February 15 #239 Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Cathead said: every now and then I get the itch to share, though I also enjoy the break from having to photograph and write up everything. Eric, I enjoy seeing your work and as much of a pain it is taking photos I and I'm sure everyone else would enjoy seeing them. If you don't wanna go to the hassle of creating a build log please feel free to post pics on Lula's log. Cathead and lraymo 2 Current Builds: 1870's Sternwheeler, Lula Wood Hull Screw Frigate USS Tennessee Decorative Carrack Warship Restoration, the Amelia Completed: 1880s Floating Steam Donkey Pile Driver Early Swift 1805 Model Restoration
lraymo Posted Sunday at 07:18 PM Author #240 Posted Sunday at 07:18 PM 22 hours ago, Cathead said: work on a model railroad project. Ditto what Keith said! I'd love to see pictures! Cathead and Keith Black 2 Current: Model Shipways Phantom Pilot Boat Completed: Norwegian Sailing Pram Lowell Grand Banks Dory
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