Phantom by lraymo - Model Shipways - 1:96 scale - New York Pilot Boat

[BrianK]

On 3/20/2022 at 11:02 PM, lraymo said:

Stanchions.  Time-consuming but made so much easier with the Northwest Short Line CHOPPER!  I love this little tool!   (Thanks, Eric, for recommending this!  It continues to be very handy!)   https://nwsl.com/products/the-chopper

 

 

 

 

Lynn,

 

Loving your updates. The stanchions look great.

 

I love my NWSL chopper too and use it frequently for thin stock. I want to let you know there is a new tool in town that you and others might want to look at. It just came on the market a few weeks ago. The Canadian team at Ultimation just released their chopper called the "Slicer". The problem it solves is that its custom replaceable blades have only one chamfered side (most blades are chamfered on both sides) so you can get dead straight cuts on the stock on the straight side. It also cuts on an integrated replaceable self-healing cutting mat.

 

I ordered mine a few days ago and will let you know how it works if you are interested..... 

 

Here is the link:

I have no financial interest in the company. https://ultimation.ca/products/slicer

 

BrianK

[Keith Black]

 Brian, thank you for the heads up on the slicer. I watched the vid, looks like a good product. Its kinda spendy for a max cutting thickness of 1/4 x 3/8. I'm looking forward to reading your review when you've had a chance to use it. In the vid he's cutting basswood, I'm eager to know how it works cutting oak. 

[Cathead]

21 hours ago, Keith Black said:

Eric, please jump in here and advise Lynn as I'm probably not giving her the best advise. 

 

 

I'm no expert at drilling holes straight. On my NRG capstan I used this drill jig from Lee Valley and still didn't get it right:

 

 

Here are two thoughts on simple homemade jigs:

 

1) Set up a slab of wood at the angle you want to drill at, so that the drill body can just slide down it. Make the foot of the jig small enough to fit on the deck.

 

2) Take a solid block of wood and drill a mast-sized hole through it at the correct angle. Then set the block on the deck and slide the drill bit into it; this will hold the bit at the right angle. 

 

If you want to do it without a jig, here's another suggestion. Drill the hole straight down, or at a somewhat shallower angle than you need, but do it with a smaller bit than the final hole. Then use a curved or round file to widen the hole to the right dimension, shaping the sides of the widened hole to represent the correct angle. No matter what, I'd alter Keith's suggestion and advise using a slightly smaller bit rather than a slightly larger bit, because you can always widen and shape the hole just as you look but a too-wide hole will make the mast loose.

 

I realize that writing out physical tasks makes them hard to understand. If you're not sure what I mean, I can try to whip up a drawing.

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, Cathead said:

No matter what, I'd alter Keith's suggestion and advise using a slightly smaller bit rather than a slightly larger bit, because you can always widen and shape the hole just as you look but a too-wide hole will make the mast loose.

 Eric, thank you for responding. Great suggestions.

 

 I suggested making the hole slightly larger for fine adjustment knowing that the mast would need to be shimmed for its final position. This is the way I did it because I knew there was no way I was going to be able drill the hole accurately. By slightly larger I meant a tenth of an inch. 

[lraymo]

On 3/22/2022 at 3:50 PM, Keith Black said:

You're far more than a casual builder.

Thanks for the kind words!  I ended up drilling the holes before reading your post about the Forster drill.  I will have to look that one up.  Meanwhile, I practiced on a block of wood till I felt comfortable with my drill.   I ended up drilling with a small bit, then increased in size, and finally with the mast-sized bit.   i was struggling with getting the right angle, but my physical therapist friend lent me her "tractograph" (apparently its used to measure knee and foot angles), and it worked out well!  See below, but I am quite happy with both masts, after just dry fitting them into the holes!  It's not perfect, but close enough for me!

 

On 3/22/2022 at 6:26 PM, BrianK said:

The Canadian team at Ultimation just released their chopper called the "Slicer

Thanks Brian, this sounds like a cool tool!  Let me know how you like it!

 

On 3/23/2022 at 9:23 AM, Cathead said:

If you want to do it without a jig,

I used a combination of your suggestions!  I'll have to clean up one of the mast holes, since the drill left a couple of splinters, but its not bad, and some sanding will fix it.  Thanks for your instructions, I appreciate it!

 

[Keith Black]

 Way to go, Lynn. Nice job!

[BrianK]

Beautiful Lynn!!

[BrianK]

Lynn I wonder if a tool like this is useful for getting the rake right? You might need a donut shaped buffer board to keep the tool off the bulwarks....

I like that you can see the work area below the jig too.

 

https://garrettwade.com/product/portable-drill-guide-jig?gclid=Cj0KCQjw8_qRBhCXARIsAE2AtRYg_M3V64xemsueGJcr2ficAu1fG1PQp8f-Z_r41lY4_TZW5RxmFm8aAnYQEALw_wcB

 

BTW, did I mention I love tools? 😃 

 

BrianK

[BrianK]

Sorry Cathead,

just saw your earlier suggestion. Doh!

 

BrianK

[lraymo]

Thanks Brian, Eric, Keith for the tool, jig, and drill bit suggestions!  I've saved the URLs for the tools  (Garrett Wade has lots of interesting items!)

 

One question:  The Forstner drill bits look like they would come in handy, but where do I find small-diameter bits?  On Amazon, most of the sets seem to start at 1/4".  Are these bits usually only used for larger holes?  Or would/could they be used for smaller diameter holes (1/16", 1/8", etc)?  Or would the smaller holes not really need this type of bit?

 

(I am a big fan of tools that make things easier!)

[Keith Black]

 Lynn, 1/4 inch is the smallest size available to my knowledge. Below looks like better good prices. 

 

https://www.ptreeusa.com/drilling_forstner_bits.html

 

[BrianK]

I agree with Keith on common minimum Forstner bit sizes. 

For smaller sizes I would just ensure you use tape on the wood and drill through it, cut at high speed with a really sharp bit, and don't put pressure on the drill. Let it do the drilling without extra pressure.

 

Actually these are the rules for bigger holes in wood too. 😃 

 

BrianK

[lraymo]

Great idea about using tape when drilling the smaller holes. Thanks, and I will remember that.

 

Ok, now for my next two questions:

1) Instructions say to paint the brass eyebolts and belaying pins.  I tried to paint the eyebolts black, but the paint just rubbed off, and left a couple black specks where I installed the eyebolts.  How do i paint these tiny brass pieces?   (I strung the eyebolts on a needle, painted them, but the paint flaked off as soon as I started working with them!)

2) It also says to cut the "mast coat" from a piece of manila folder.  How do you all cut a perfect circle, with another perfect circle inside it?

 

See below for my unpainted eyebolts and very raggedy mast coat.   Any suggestions would be helpful!

This is what I am trying to achieve...

 

This is what I ended up with...  arrgghh, not so good!

 

[Keith Black]

 Birchwood Casey Brass Black and a compass circle cutter. Lynn, use the MSW search engine to find discussions on brass blackening, there are several. 

 

 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Compass-Circle-Circular-Cutting/dp/B08FRRV2ZT/ref=asc_df_B08FRRV2ZT/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475864778819&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9216951676649442914&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9017387&hvtargid=pla-1125028214835&psc=1

[lraymo]

Excellent!  Thanks for the info and the link!

[BrianK]

Another small circle cutting trick when working in thin/soft materials is to use either a circle punch or disc cutter. Circle punches are what leathersmiths use but they work great on cardstock too (ebay search: circle punch).

 

I have been drooling over the swanstrom disc cutters (they make other shape cutters too) for a while.....

https://www.riogrande.com/searchresults#q=disc cutter&t=products&sort=relevancy&layout=card&numberOfResults=36

 

There are swanstrom knock-offs available but alas, I still use punches for small circles...... =(  LOL 

[Keith Black]

 Brian, with punches don't you only get the single hole and not a hole within a hole? When making the gun tracks for the Tennessee I tried using a large punch for the outside diameter and a smaller bunch to cut the inner diameter but it was impossible for me to cut the two with a consistent ring width. 

[BrianK]

Keith,

I agree, alignment is definitely a challenge with punches. Light reference marks help a bit. Drawing a small crosshair with radius ticks matched to the punch.

 

The disc cutter interests me too for this reason since it has washer cutter centering dies. Cut the inner hole, then use the centering dies to align the small cut hole for the bigger hole cut. Lynn's mast coat is essentially a washer cut.....

 

For anything nearing an inch or bigger I am with you on your circle cutter solution. Maybe I need a better one for those smaller holes like Lynn is trying to do.....

 

Keith this is a circle cutter question more fitting for your Tennessee build log (sorry Lynn) but I wonder if can you do gun tracks from paper or thin card thru the laser printer, then cut with the circle cutter? 

 

BrianK

 

[Keith Black]

7 minutes ago, BrianK said:

eith this is a circle cutter question more fitting for your Tennessee build log (sorry Lynn) but I wonder if can you do gun tracks from paper or thin card thru the laser printer, then cut with the circle cutter? 

 Brian, thank you. I've already completed the gun tracks, see post #157. 

[BrianK]

yup saw that Keith. You mentioned it was challenging and I just wondered about an alternative for a potential future project.... 

 

anyway, back to Lynn's build. Sorry for the sidetrack....

 

BrianK

[lraymo]

Great discussion on hole punches, cutters, and gun tracks!   I actually purchased the circle cutter AND a punch, (they should be delivered today), and I'll try both.  The alignment issue worries me with the punch, but with practice, it may work!   Meanwhile, i'll be using the Brass Black (to be delivered in the same pkg today), on the little fittings that get installed on the stanchions, while wrestling with the cap rail.  The first attempt didn't work (I cut it out in one piece, but the wood kept splitting).  So I'm ending up with two side pieces and one at the back.  The starboard side installation went ok (one small split that will be covered by the splash rail), but I'm having trouble gluing the port side.  Wood glue didn't work, so I'll be using CA next.

It was a pain trying to "freehand carve" these rails, so I am happy with the starboard rail so far, and hoping the port rail will be ok too!

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, lraymo said:

It was a pain trying to "freehand carve" these rails

 That's why God made sandpaper. 

[lraymo]

So I had to step away for a bit...  first there was the Final Four (Go KU), then the Championship (Yay Jayhawks!).  And of course, time taken to watch the Masters (great to see Tiger walking, and congrats to Scheffler!)

Then I started my new retirement gig... I am volunteering at our local golf course (which comes with free golf! Whee!)

 

Anyway, back to ship building.  I was excited to start work on the blackening of the cleats, but I'm incredibly disappointed!  Instructions say to paint the cleats after they have been installed on the stanchions, but my fingers aren't that steady, so i made a little "holder" and swabbed each with the Brass Black solution.  I am really confused now.  I was expecting a black paint-like solution, but instead, it came out as a clear, somewhat blu-ish solution, and didn't make any difference in the color of the cleats.

 I was really hoping the Brass Black would color them all black, so I'm not sure what I've done wrong.  Thoughts?

[BrianK]

Lynn - not sure what happened there. If the brass parts were not real clean first or if they had a clear coat on them, I don't think they will blacken well....

 

BrianK

[Keith Black]

 Lynn, congratulations on the voluntary work at the course, free golf (or anything free these days) is treat.  

 

 As to blackening. I've not had a great deal of success blackening with solutions though Casey has worked the best of any I've tried. As Brian suggested, the brass parts aren't clean enough? 

 

I now paint whatever I need blackened with black acrylic craft paint and once dry, I seal it with satin poly. If you paint be sure to clean the paint off the bottom of the cleats before gluing to the wood surface for better adhesion.   

[Cathead]

Lynn, a few trouble-shooting questions and potential advice on your cleats. Forgive any implied condescension if any of these are obvious to you, they aren't necessarily so from here.

 

(1) Are you sure those parts are brass rather than pewter? In the photo they look silvery, which implies pewter. Brass would be yellow and shiny. If they're pewter, you need a different blackening solution. 

 

(2) The blackening solution I use (though a different brand) is indeed bluish, like windshield wiper fluid. It isn't like paint, it generates a chemical reaction with the metal that actually turns the outer surface black (rather than applying a layer of black over the metal, as paint does). This is why you need a different solution for pewter than brass, the chemistry isn't the same. 

 

(3) Any part that's intended for blackening needs to be cleaned well, as residual oils from manufacturing and even skin oils from being handled will block the chemical process (again, it's not adding a layer like paint, it's actually altering the part's physical surface). I do this in a small dish of warm, soapy water, using tweezers and an old toothbrush to avoid skin contact. I then rinse each part in another small dish of warm water, then set them out to air-dry on a smooth towel.

 

(4) I find that blackening works best when the parts are submerged in the solution and it's given time to work. Swabbing them may not give sufficient time or contact for the alteration process to work. I fill a very small container with a bit of blackener (you can often dilute it) and place the parts in there to soak, occasionally stirring them around to ensure full contact. You can see the change happen over a course of minutes; once they look black enough, take them back out and let them dry on another absorbent surface.

 

(5) I find that sometimes blackening doesn't always fully take, leaving a few patches of color that flake off or never altered in the first place, possibly due to poor pre-cleaning. In such cases I  apply a thin layer of black paint  anyway; the blackening acts as a sort of base layer that holds the paint and ensures no hint of shiny metal peeks through the paint. This lets you use less paint than you might otherwise need, so the part stays closer to its original shape and surface. You can also use paint or ink markers to touch up any gaps, again minimizing the layering added to the part.

 

Hope some or all of this is relevant to figuring out your problem.

[lraymo]

10 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 

I now paint whatever I need blackened with black acrylic craft paint and once dry, I seal it with satin poly

Thanks!  I'll be painting these (as soon as I return from my round of golf!!!)

 

11 hours ago, BrianK said:

I don't think they will blacken well...

Thanks,  Ithink the problem is that these are not brass!

 

55 minutes ago, Cathead said:

a few trouble-shooting questions and potential advice on your cleats

Thanks, It's very possible these are not brass!  Oops!  I appreciate the information about the chemical process, and the advice for blackening solutions for different substances.  the one I have does, indeed, look like windshield-washer solution, which is most likely the problem, since these cleats are "Britannia castings", which I just assumed were brass.  Oh well.  I will now just paint them, and hope it works!

 

[Cathead]

13 minutes ago, lraymo said:

these cleats are "Britannia castings", which I just assumed were brass

Bingo, there's your problem! By the way, both brass and pewter solutions look the same (clear blue), at the ones I use do. You can't tell them apart that way, the core point is that they're chemical-alteration solutions rather than paints, so neither will look anything like the intended outcome (unlike paint).

 

Here's a product that claims to handle both brass and pewter in a single bottle, though I've never used it. Any such product is nasty and should be handled with care. My stuff came from BlueJacket and I'm pleased with it: PN0051 (Pewter & Brittania) and PN0052 (Brass & copper).

[BrianK]

There are also blackeners for aluminum as well as for iron and other metals. There is also green patina chemical for copper that I wonder if any boat modeller has tried.....

 

Jax Chemical makes a bunch of different ones..... https://jaxchemical.com/

 

BrianK

[lraymo]

Thanks for the info.  

On 4/13/2022 at 9:56 AM, Cathead said:

My stuff came from BlueJacket and I'm pleased with it: PN0051 (Pewter & Brittania)

Eric, thanks, I tried to order the PN0051 from the BlueJacket website, but couldn't find a way to order it, so I sent them an email.

 

Meanwhile, I did a "dry-fit of the current painted cleat I have, and realized two things.  1) the cleat is much to big for this model (it's 1/4", and I see that I can order a 3/16" ceat from Model-Shipways, which I have requested), and 2) the black paint is flaking off, so I'm really looking forward to blackening the cleats and most the other Britannia pewter castings that came with the kit!

 

This cleat looks too big (sorry it's not quite in focus)!  So until I get smaller pieces and the blackener, I'm going to move on to other deck fittings, etc.

Oh, and pay no attention to the stanchions and waterway to the right of the cleat... more sanding and clean-up needed!