Bismarck by ted99 - FINISHED - Amati - 1:200

[rvchima]

Beautiful work Ted! Too bad about the matte white. It's always the paint that causes trouble.

 

Rod

[ted99]

Yes.  I've had as many problems with Tamiya paints as you with Rust-oleum.  Painting outdoors with wind also means poor results

[ted99]

Working ahead on superstructure, as I've waited for suitable outside weather for hull painting.  Didn't know I would need watch-maker skills assembling PE brass.  Work to date.  Tried easy PE parts to gain skills.  At present, I plan to leave the assembled PE brass unpainted.  I think I'd rather look at the PE "in the raw" than have a fully painted mode.  To that end, I've been priming and paining any wood that will not be covered with PE brass either grey or black, as determined by the manual pictures.  I'm leaving the plastic parts unpainted, where suitable.  I may paint the stack after gluing together the two halves, if it looks like I will want to fill the seam, but that will be the base for all the PE detail parts that get attached to the stack that will stay brass.  If I persist in this plan, I'll do an overall spray of clear matte paint over the whole model for durability and consistent sheen.  Where there are large plastic parts in the superstructure that attach to wood, I've been using epoxy, rather than CA.  It offers a longer working time to get the position just right and I just trust it more than my skills attaching large pieces of plastic to the wood understructure.

 

A note to other builders:  When you assemble the many pieces of laser-cut ply to fabricate the superstructure pieces, be very careful to get all of the ply pieces fully seated in their respective notches.  I found it better to do just a few pieces at a time and allow them to cure before going on to attach more pieces to ensure that each part is firmly in it's slot/niche.  The reason for this will become evident as you start attaching the plastic and PE pieces and discover that you left a 1mm gap in a place where a piece of plastic or PE brass attaches.  Since I'm using PVA glue for the wooden parts, this has added time to the assembly process. "Tain't a hobby if you hurry".

[hof00]

Nice!!

 

Coming along very well.

 

Cheers....HOF.

[ted99]

Deck attached.  Also shows the 1:200 deck decals from "Custom Hobby Decals" of Queensland, Australia.  I'm going to leave the hull alone for a while and come back to improving the camo stripes when I'm in a better mood and less dependent on fickle winter weather for balcony painting.  Dry-fitting the deck pieces at the hull sanding stage and tracing their outline on the deck paid off.  I have a uniform 1mm edge around the deck between the wood and the hull topsides.

[ted99]

Major cladding done on the forward deck superstructure.  Plan to do the same for the aft superstructure before returning to add all the detail do-dads.  I hope to have more practice doing PE brass by then.  I've never done PE before and so I've taken a very methodical approach and done dry-fitting of the multiple pieces of brass cladding on the superstructure sides.  There are as many a six separate pieces to a side.  With the dry fitting, it has seemed like the order of assembly of the individual pieces is different from that implied in the manual.  For instance, it has seemed to me that starting at the middle of a string has worked out better for determining which of the pieces overlap and which butt together (allowing for beveling, of course).  I also find myself messing with the plywood base with trimming or shimming to get the pieces to go together with minimal gaps.  The Tamiya file for PE brass has worked very well.  It has a finer surface than my normal jeweler's files and works well on the thin brass.

[reklein]

Thats looking very good indeed. Thanks for the tips. I have a 1-200 Hood with the fancy PE kit to build after I finish my Missouri..

[rvchima]

Ted,

 

You've got the hang of the PE work - it looks great!

 

I am a big fan of Proxxon tools. I use their pen sander with 80 grit paper to even up wooden frameworks, and with 400 grit paper to clean the nubs off all the PE parts. I keep a tip loaded with each. Their self-adhesive sand paper is terrible so I make my own with 3M double-sided tape and high-quality sand paper. Cleaning nubs off PE eats up the 400 grit paper and I go through several squares every day, so I make up several strips about 6" long and cut off a square as needed.

 

Proxxon's 5" disk sander with 120 grit disks is good for removing a line of brass from PE cladding that is just a hair too big.

 

Rod

 

 

[hof00]

Nice work!!

(I am a PE novice myself but learning.... 🙂)

 

Cheers....HOF.

[ted99]

Builder alert.  Aft superstructure PE Brass attachment.  On P.31 of Vol1 instructions:  Make a note on Step 678 to go to step 688 on P.33 first.  It will be much easier to do a smooth wrap around of the upper house if the lower railings that are done in step 678 are not there.  Ask me how I know.  

[rvchima]

23 hours ago, ted99 said:

Builder alert.  Aft superstructure PE Brass attachment.  On P.31 of Vol1 instructions:  Make a note on Step 678 to go to step 688 on P.33 first.  It will be much easier to do a smooth wrap around of the upper house if the lower railings that are done in step 678 are not there.  Ask me how I know.  

Thanks for the warning. Looks like your page numbers should be Pages 131 and  133 of Volume 2.

[rvchima]

Ted,

You did a great job on the ammo elevator. It took me 3 or 4 hours to build that tiny thing.

[ted99]

23 hours ago, rvchima said:

Ted,

You did a great job on the ammo elevator. It took me 3 or 4 hours to build that tiny thing.

That was what prompted me to remark that I didn't know I needed watchmaker skills.  Building that thing really improved my skills to the point that I ALMOST wanted to do it again.  Interesting how my older iPhone camera makes the grey plastic look blue

[ted99]

Another future builder alert.  I suggest that you conform the fore and aft superstructure to the hull profile BEFORE attaching any of the PE Brass cladding.  You will be doing a lot of hand sanding (if you don't have a belt sander) to get the base of the wood base to match the hull hogback without small gaps in the middle and it's a lot easier if you don't have to worry about your grip on the structure bending the railings that are part of the brass side cladding.  It's easy to file/sand the bottom of the brass sides to conform with the wood.  Much more effort in getting the proper profile across the full-width 5mm ply base.

[ted99]

23 hours ago, rvchima said:

Thanks for the warning. Looks like your page numbers should be Pages 131 and  133 of Volume 2.

too right!

[ted99]

All the major platforms are complete.  Now to hours of adding the PE/plastic details.  If you see bent railing, I'm leaving them that way until final assembly.  Bent over from my grip when sanding.  I figure there are a limited number of times I can bend those things back and forth, so I'll leave them alone, for now.

[hof00]

Hi Chap,

Looking really good!

 

Cheers....HOF.

[rvchima]

On 12/30/2021 at 12:41 PM, ted99 said:

At present, I plan to leave the assembled PE brass unpainted.  I think I'd rather look at the PE "in the raw" than have a fully painted mode.  To that end, I've been priming and paining any wood that will not be covered with PE brass either grey or black, as determined by the manual pictures.  I'm leaving the plastic parts unpainted, where suitable.  I may paint the stack after gluing together the two halves, if it looks like I will want to fill the seam, but that will be the base for all the PE detail parts that get attached to the stack that will stay brass.  If I persist in this plan, I'll do an overall spray of clear matte paint over the whole model for durability and consistent sheen.

I was looking at your model and wondering "How is he going to paint that?" Then I remembered your earlier post.

 

I can see why you'd want to leave the model au naturale. The raw brass is attractive, and the contrast with the gray plastic and the wood really shows how much work you've done. My brass is already heavily tarnished, so you might want to get that matte coat on it soon. My brass also has a "few" spots of CA on it, that I hope I can hide with paint.

[ted99]

14 hours ago, rvchima said:

I was looking at your model and wondering "How is he going to paint that?" Then I remembered your earlier post.

 

I can see why you'd want to leave the model au naturale. The raw brass is attractive, and the contrast with the gray plastic and the wood really shows how much work you've done. My brass is already heavily tarnished, so you might want to get that matte coat on it soon. My brass also has a "few" spots of CA on it, that I hope I can hide with paint.

I have fingerprints, too, from CA residue on my fingers and I've scraped some of the CA residue (before I discovered the blotter technique) off with a #11 blade--which then leaves shinny scratches which I'd like to tarnish back.  Yes, I'm thinking that everything will get a coat of clear flat after as much cleanup as possible with Alcohol.  I'm thinking that it should be done as soon as a major subassembly is completed--but that is really tough to decide "when".  Everything is attached to everything.  For instance, the stack you are working on now.  Should I wait to attach the finished aircraft hangers to the stack before clear-coating?  I think so, but where to stop and clear coat?

[rvchima]

On 1/13/2022 at 12:41 PM, ted99 said:

I have fingerprints, too, from CA residue on my fingers and I've scraped some of the CA residue (before I discovered the blotter technique) off with a #11 blade--which then leaves shinny scratches which I'd like to tarnish back.

One of those foam sanding pads around 220 grit will remove the razor blade scratches and leave the brass nice and shiny.

 

Another thought: A top view of the Bismarck shows that the tops of many components were painted dark gray -- turrets, range finders, gun barrels, etc. You might consider painting just those things for some contrast.

Edited January 14, 2022 by rvchima

[ted99]

20 hours ago, rvchima said:

One of those foam sanding pads around 220 grit will remove the razor blade scratches and leave the brass nice and shiny.

 

Another thought: A top view of the Bismarck shows that the tops of many components were painted dark gray -- turrets, range finders, gun barrels, etc. You might consider painting just those things for some contrast.

Good idea.  I'll try this.  A cotton Q-tip dipped in Acetone has been effective in removing fingerprints.  Yes, I agree with you on painting the "tops".  I've already done this with some of the wooden tops of the superstructures that appears to be black.  The Rust-oleum 2X black primer has just the right sheen.  Same very dark grey color as the Automotive Rust-Oleum black primer, but the automotive primer is thicker than the 2X--I'm sure this better serves final sanding before top-coat.  The 2X primer seems like it doesn't harden off right away but if left alone for a few days, it firms up.  I guess the 2X primer is designed to stay softer for a little while to improve adhesion with a 2X top-coat, but I definitely like that it doesn't hide details as much as the automotive. It DOESN'T like to be sanded, so the substrate better be just the way you want it before application.  Makes it good for plastic and brass, but not so much for wood.

[ted99]

Been a while since I last posted because I'm moving to a different apt at the end of this month and I've avoided working on anything so delicate that I'd worry about it in moving.  Been "decorating" the superstructure sections already built with all the little do dads on the bulkhead sides.  I'm also doing substructures like the gun turrets as they are plenty robust for moving. 

These turrets are a lot of fun to build with all the interlocking parts.  All of those bulkheads serve to act as structural support for the PE brass pieces.  It's like a jigsaw puzzle on which you can use a knife or file to make the pieces fit.  To that end, I have some advice for future builders on the main battery turrets.  I put the PE brass on the first one by working around the turret at the lowest level, and then proceeding up the sides and finally the top piece.  WRONG!  It turns out the wooden base is a little longer than the brass, when fully assembled, and the top comes up short when you get to it.  I've attached pictures of the step-by-step process I used for the second one to correct for this problem.  The last 2 pictures show the first and second turrets side by side (obviously bad one on the left).  As you can see, the top piece of PE doesn't cover the whole top and the front of the turret is a little too far in front for a good join to the angled piece.  Painting the tops black will allow for a little filler to cover up these gaps, but it's still undesirable.

1.  The first picture shows the angled pieces of brass as the first pieces to be attached to the front and rear of the turret.  Align these pieces to the top flat edge of the turret.  You will then have a little excess wood structure on the front and rear vertical parts of the turret, which can be sanded down flush with the brass pieces.

2.  The second picture shows the  vertical fore and aft pieces of brass being attached.  Note that I aligned the aft piece of brass flush with the bottom of the turret and this is wrong.  It necessitated a LOT of filing at the end.  It is better to align it flush with the angled piece of brass because it's a lot easier to file off the excess at the bottom, than up by all the rivet detail.

3.  The third picture shows that the fore piece of vertical brass aligned well with the angled piece the way I should have done for the aft piece.

4.  The side vertical pieces go on now.  Note that the fore end of the side piece has the rivet detail close to the edge and this end should be butted to the protruding edge of the forward vertical piece.  The aft end of the side piece has excess brass after the rivet detail and the rear vertical piece of brass should be filed flush with the wood structure so that the aft end of the side piece can overlap the rear brass piece.  File the excess brass of the aft end of the side piece flush with the rear vertical brass piece.  The rivet detail is now very close to the edge of the side piece, as it should be.  It's not clear in the photos, but I needed to do slight shimming of the lower wooden edge supporting the bottom of the side piece to have it be vertical.

5.  A lot of trimming with a file on the fore and aft ends is needed to get the piece ready for the angled pieces of brass.  My top on this second turret fit perfectly in the resulting  area

6.  The last two pictures show the finished major construction, with the first and incorrect method on the left, and the second better method on the right.  Both turrets have been burnished with a SS wire brush to remove excess CA glue and fingerprints.  It'll tarnish out shortly.  I pre-painted the exposed wooden platform grey, in keeping with my intent to leave the brass mainly "au naturelle" to show off the construction and only painting exposed wood.  I'm not building a museum-scale model.  I'm building a visible testament to the intricacies of this model and the difficulty in building it.  And also demonstrating that it's not a lot of PLASTIC!  

 

My experience here, which I'm sure is familiar to any experienced builder, is that a lot of working with PE brass cladding is the need to do a lot of pre-planning of the assembly sequence.  When there are multiple pieces to be done, the subsequent pieces will always benefit from the earlier pieces and it is not a good idea to assemble all the pieces at the same time.  Dry-fitting the brass pieces of the turrets would not have revealed that the wood sub-structure needs to be trimmed a small amount down to the size of the brass pieces.  But, the dry-fitting did work out for determining the better sequence for assembly of the major bulkhead sides.

[rvchima]

We're happy to see you back Ted. There's nothing like moving to waste a lot of time. I hope that the new place has a better spray booth.

 

Your turrets look great. I sure wish that you'd posted your advice before I built mine. Mine have a few seams filled with Vallejo acrylic putty. It comes in a tube with a very fine nozzle and works well to fill gaps like on your first attempt. I'll bet you could touch it up with some brass paint or even a marker and no one would be the wiser.

[ted99]

Finished the other two turrets and learned another lesson.  You'll notice a "smile" between the lower vertical side panel and the angled panel above on the earlier pieces.  This is because the lower panel extends too far up on the wood substructure and overlaps the angled panel after it is fitted.  If you file it down, you will file off the rivet detail.  The brass should be exactly even with the 45 deg break in the wood substructure.  For the last turret, I learned to trim away the top of the recess in the side PE piece, that clears the round platform, so that it would sit lower. I did not change the order of assembly from my earlier post.  It still gave the best results with easy trimming of the brass and preservation of the rivet detail.  The 4 photos are of the four turrets from different angles.  

 

Sorry about the timing, Rod.  I got the idea to do the turrets during pre-move after seeing your photos.  I think I ended up spending close to 5 hours on the last one.  Process of trimming the wood to fit the brass and trimming the brass to fit each other.  Since I'm not painting the brass or plastic (except for the turret and director tops) I obsessed about gaps.  If Amati gave me another set, I'd do them over again--they were fun.

 

Now for the minor caliber turrets.

[ted99]

Photos showing the place where the side panel may need to be trimmed and it's better location on the wood substructure.  top of brass needs to be exactly even with the break from vertical to angled.

[ted99]

I've finished the 4 minor caliber turrets.  These are different in fabricating, compared to the main turrets because the brass is heavy gauge compared to the size of the turret and there are only 2 pieces per turret, both with 45 deg wingwalls.  VERY difficult for me to get alignment on all of the edges.  It was a lot easier on the main turrets because of all the separate pieces.  The hobby knife gives a good comparison for size.

 

The first picture shows the first one done on the left and the second one started.  On the first one, bending down the front of the turret did not go well.  I decided that I needed to sand a bevel relief at the bend joint of the wood substructure and this bevel is shown on the turret to the right.  The angled flaps did not align well, so I decided to try a different sequence of assembly and to pre-file bevels on the "flaps".  The second picture shows what I beveled and the third picture shows doing the top piece first, as contrasted to the side piece shown in the first picture.  The fourth picture shows the front of the turret bent into position and the beveled relief in the wood substructure allowed this to go very well.  Later pictures of the third turret shows that doing the top first gave even larger misalignments, so I went back to the original assembly order for the fourth.  The later pictures show all 4 with the order of assembly from left to right.  Gaps at the angled sides never came out perfect, but each one got a little better.  The etched rivet detail would never survive using filler, so it's au naturelle brass and gaps be damned.  Same issue with these as the main turrets--wood substructure too long for the brass, so I sanded down the rear of the turrets wood.

[rvchima]

Your turrets look good. Funny that you ended up with some small gaps - I usually ended up with too much brass. But I found that I could cut very thin strips with heavy scissors to make the pieces fit. Of course I cut off the rivet details. 🙄

[hof00]

19 minutes ago, rvchima said:

Your turrets look good. Funny that you ended up with some small gaps - I usually ended up with too much brass. But I found that I could cut very thin strips with heavy scissors to make the pieces fit. Of course I cut off the rivet details. 🙄

Yup,

I know the feeling, I lost quite a few Rivets myself....

 

Cheers....HOF.

[ted99]

Finished the last two small turrets.  First picture shows completed.  Next set shows assembly sequence, based on my experience with the first four.  The first four are done with two pieces of PE brass and the last two with three pieces.  I would have loved for the turrets to have been done with four pieces of brass.  Getting the angles just right for gapless joins proved impossible for my skill level--which is NO prior PE brass ever done before Bismarck.  If those angled side pieces had been separate, I think I could have filed them into place and not lost any rivet detail.  The brass is relieved on the back side to make bending easier and if I had it to do over, I'd try cutting the angled pieces away from the top/sides and try fitting them that way.  Might, or might not work, but I'd give it a try.

 

Next three pictures show the assembly sequence I used, based on my experience with the first four. First step was to sand in relief at any wood edge that had a brass bend.  The relatively heavy gauge brass bends with a very sharp join, so rounding these wood edges just frees up the area from binding the brass as it bends to conform with the wood. I bent the brass wingwalls a little at a time so as to get the edge protruding beyond the side wood just enough to meet the top edge of the side piece.  I did not mash the brass all the way down to the wood substructure because that would have put the edge inside the side brass and left a smile.  After CA'ing the top/front brass, I dry fit the top piece to determine the proper profile for the rear.  As in all the other turrets (large and small), the wood is a little longer than the brass.  You can see a black pencil line at the rear of the wood showing how much of the wood had to be sanded off to get a lip of the brass top to extend enough to cover the curved rear brass piece.  I also checked the extention of the sides to be sure that they matched up with the overlap on the front of the turret.  Turns out that shortening the rear brought the side exactly flush with rear of the front brass piece (which extended out the sides leaving material to file down for a perfect match).  After the sides were in place, there was a small amount of the brass that stood proud of the wooden top, which I filed down and the top almost exactly covered all of the vertical edges of the side/rear brass.  A little filing at the edges to clean everything up.  No rivet detail was lost.

 

As always, if I had all 6 to redo, I'd have much better results.  Building these things was fun, so it would be a pleasure to do them again (unlike that ammo hoist).

 

[rvchima]

6 hours ago, ted99 said:

As always, if I had all 6 to redo, I'd have much better results.  Building these things was fun, so it would be a pleasure to do them again (unlike that ammo hoist).

Ha ha! Wait until you build the mast!

 

Your last two turrets are perfect. The little flaps that bend imperceptibly inward at the periscopes were really hard to get right, but yours look perfect.

 

On my turrets I sanded all of the wood structure very lightly on a small disk sander where possible, or with a small sanding block elsewhere. That probably relieved my corners like you did. I applied the bottom strips first, then used my Proxxon oscillating sander with 150 grit paper to bevel the top edges of the brass to meet the mating pieces. Every time Amati says "With a small file ...." I think "With my Proxxon sander ..."