US Brig Syren by rtropp - Model Shipways - 1:64

[dgbot]

Richard, have you tried a stained glass supplier? They work with copper strip all the time.

David B

[GLakie]

Your Syren's looking good Richard. Hope you don't mind if I pull up a chair and admire your work. 

 

Cheers

[augie]

Richard, have you tried a stained glass supplier? They work with copper strip all the time.

David B

If copper tape will do the job, Model Expo carries it in several different widths.

[mtaylor]

Richard,

 

Worst case if you can't find any is to get some 14 gauge wire, heat it with a touch and hammer away to flatten it.  Might take several times with the torch and after it's flat enough, hit it again with the torch and let air cool to anneal it and make it softer for bending. 

 

Edit:   Heat the copper till it's red...

Edited January 29, 2015 by mtaylor

[rtropp]

Hi George, welcome aboard

 

I checked the stained glass suppliers and they have foil which will be too thin.  ditto with Model Expo.

 

I have ordered some copper sheet to see if that cuts to size on my Byrnes Saw. (a learning experience.)

At the same time I will be attempting to make Gudgeons and Pintles as Ed Tosti did on his Young America. I will have to order a high temp torch and silver solder. (another learning experience.)

 

At the same time, I have some 18 gauge copper wire from Hobby Lobby and will try my hand at flattening it.

 

Ok, I have today pretty much lined up  :-)

 

Richard

[rtropp]

Thomas,

Hmmm... prototype, I like it :-)

 

Also, where did you get your copper strips?

 

So far I am only able to find sheet or foil strips.

 

Thanks,

Richard

[Gahm]

Richard, I had the same problem. I took a copper sheet, drew lines on it, impressed the nail heads along the lines (it is far easier to do this as long as you have a sheet - strips will bend), cut out the strips leaving them a little too wide, flattened and polished them with steel wool against a thick brass sheet, and reduced them to the right width with a file. That may not be the best process, but it worked 

 

Thomas

[rtropp]

a quick update,

 

Following a combination of suggestions, I tried soldering the tubes to a sheet of copper and cut it into the 1/16th strips, then, using double sided tape, attached the gudgeon to a block of wood and drilled the holes for the nails.  That seemed to work.  I considered drilling the holes than cutting the strip but not sure if I can hold the 1/16th tight enough to avoid the holes.  by cutting them with the tube first I am able to file/correct the strip if they have a problem.  I use an x-y table for the drilling and that is working out pretty well. If I get skilled enough sawing copper plate into strips, I will drill holes for nails prior to cutting.

 

Right now I am learning how to make the nails.  After a few failed attempts, I watched the video from Alex D. and use his method.  I seems to work fairly well, although I am not getting a really distinct nail head, but it does look better than my other attempts.

 

I will post photos when I have something presentable.  Right now it is still a lot of experimentation.

 

If anyone has any other methods for turning copper wire into nail heads, please let me know.

 

I have received the torch and supplies for silver soldering.  I also found a couple of silver solders that are yellow to better match copper, gold, or brass. So as long as I am in for a penny, might as well go in for a pound.

 

... and so it goes,

 

Richard

[rtropp]

Hi all,

well, a couple of weeks have gone by and I am making some progress. I also revised some of the work described in the last post.

 

This latest round started when I decided to use copper for the pintles and gudgeons instead of brass. I tried high temperature soldering in order to use brass/copper colored solder but it will take me too long to learn so I went on with low temperature, paste solder.

 

I could not find copper strips so had to learn how to fabricate from sheet. For the Gudgeons, I first soldered a copper tube to receive the pintle. You can see in this picture that I tried the dremel first but it was too coarse a cut. So I switched to my table saw with a fine blade.  

 

 

Then I cut 1/16"  strips on my table saw. (I fabricated the pintles differently, cutting the strips first then soldered the pins in place.)

 

 

 

At his point the pintles and gudgeons were dipped in vinegar and salt solution to age them to match the copper plates on the hull.  (That is the reason for some of the dark spots you see on the copper.)

 

I decided to simulate nails using the method shown by Alexey Domanoff - "Making small nails with round heads" can be found on youtube.  The pins shown below will be shortened even more before attached in place.

 

 

I then created a drilling template.

 

 

Free hand drilling following the template did not yield satisfactory results so I used the template to mark the center as well as the ends of each Pintle and Gudgeon and used the compound table on my mill to create a straight line of holes that were equidistant. I used two sided tape to hold the strip on wood backing and some additional tape to keep the ends firmly in place.  I did two of each to make sure I had extras for fabrication rejects.  (should have made 4 or 5 of each:-)

 

 

 

The pintles were glued on the rudder then the holes were cut into (not through) using the existing holes in the copper as guides.

 

 

I handled the gudgeons differently.  For these, I inserted the nails, used CA, then cut the the nail flush to the inside.

 

 

 

Finally I added the rings for the rudder chains.

 

 

 

 

That about covers the last few weeks.  Next challenge is attaching the rudder with the pintles and gudges to the rest of the ship.

 

Richard

Edited February 20, 2015 by rtropp

[GLakie]

Nice job on fabricating your rudder Richard! 

[Gahm]

Great job on those pintles and gudgeons! I love your attention to details!

 

Thomas

[dgbot]

Your rudder is shaping up nicely and no the fun of placing it where it belongs.

David B

[rtropp]

Finally the rudder in place

 

 

and close up

 

 

Honestly, I am not sure how I feel about it.  The rudder will actually move, so all of that worked out alright.

But, there is a little too much space between the rudder and the boat.  I can see where I left some space between them during the gluing. I was thinking about taking it apart and redoing it yet again but it has taken a long time to get this far and I am eager to move on to the next challenge.

 

Also, the copper looks a little beat up but the build is not meant to look new and fresh out of the yards. That's part of the reason for aging the copper.    

 

I guess I'll sleep on it and then decide.

 

Thanks all for looking in

 

Richard

 

 

 

[rtropp]

I have been looking more closely at pintles and gudgeons made by others.  There seems to be a mix of approaches, some putting the "pin" or "tube" inside the strap, some putting it on the outside. It seemed to look a little easier and better with them on the outside but I am not sure how historically accurate that would be.

 

I was curious to see what thoughts you all had about the placement of pin and/or tube. 

 

I have decided to leave the rudder as is and move on.  If I keep reworking to that degree I will not get very far.  The rudder took me close to four weeks of learning how to solder, how to work metal, etc.  I had fun but it is time to push ahead. 

 

The stern carvings, quarter badges and ship's name are next.  The quarter badges are usable with some work, but the stern carvings are barely legible.  I have sent to M.E. for another set.  I  tried to gently sharpen some of the detail with my dremel and a pointed, diamond bit but that did not work out.  We'll see if the ones that come are any better. 

 

I am not sure I can replicate by carving in wood at my skills level. I saw the carvings done by Thomas Gahm.  Incredible. 

 

thanks to all for looking in,

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Richard

[rtropp]

  Hi all,

Its been awhile since I posted.  Too many distractions but I have still found time to work on the build so here is an catch up on the last few months.

 

After the rudder, I began work on the quarter badges.  I attempted to craft them myself but results were terrible.  I asked Model Expo for a couple more badges and the ones they sent (very quickly) had sharper definition so I used them.

 

 

I was not crazy about the colors so I went for a more subdued combination.

 

 

 

and the stern decorations

 

 

With that finished I moved on to the Gunports

 

Richard

[rtropp]

On to the gunports.

 

I decided to build them as others from two pieces.  First I thinned the planks so they would size better when glued together.

 

 

I used the sticky side of tape up to hold the parts while painting.  

 

 

Decided to make split rings to attach to the posts.

 

 

I flattened the rings using a small brass hammer on a jewelers hard rubber block

 

 

Here is a collection of the parts for the ports.  I keep that little box, which has a lid, near my work.  Whenever I work in fiddly bits (I love that expression, learned it here) I keep them there so I know to be really careful around them.

 

 

after spending more time searching the floor for dropped parts than actually building the ports, I attached a light piece of canvas to the table with clamps with the other end up against my chest.  The fabric is stiff enough to stay without stapling it to my chest.  All dropped parts go onto the canvas and are easily retrieved without having to get up.  I leave the fabric there even when not using it as my legs still slide under the table, wouldn't be without it now.

 

 

Finally,

 

 

 

I did not get any pictures of the hinges, but that went pretty easily.  I cut them off the photo etch wrong so had to order replacements.  Model expo had them to me in a week. I have to say, their replacement performance has been excellent.  This being my first model I have needed a lot of replacement parts and they just keep sending them.  Glad my first kit came from them.

 

Any way, the hinges were not difficult to work.  The problem with the gun and sweep ports was the work on the cutouts when I first started the model.  They were done before skills had been developed at all... and show it.  So, I decided to keep all the gun ports open to avoid obvious mismatch.  I left the single piece port closed... but actually used a separate piece for the inside of it so it would have a better fit. 

 

 

As I go on, and have to deal with the effects of poor work early in the build, I get the urge to start again.  The problem is I do not know what mistakes I have yet to make!!.  I have to remember that this is my first kit and the objective is to build skills.  So I move on.

 

Richard

[_SalD_]

Nice work Richard. I hear you about launching parts into never-never land.  I have an old bed sheet spread out on the floor under my chair so when I drop a part it's easier to find than trying to dig it out of the carpet.

[rtropp]

Hi Sal,

I first just put the canvas on the floor and it was easier to find the dropped pieces, but I was still having to get down on the floor and my knees really complained.  That's when I attached the canvas to the work table and placed the other end in my lap.  Now when I drop pieces they are right in my lap on the canvas, well usually in my lap.

 

Richard.

[rtropp]

So, on to the boarding ladder steps.

 

Using a Dremel shaper/router, I created the indented front cut along the entire length of the strip. I finally got to use the Dremel shaper/router... so it was not permanently assigned to the unused tool closet... :-).

 

 

I used some scrap wood to set the depth and height of the cut.  Then tried to route 1/16" by 3/32" basswood.  Well, the wood strip was too thin and would not stay straight through the cut.  So I took a wider piece of 1/16", ran it through the router.

 

 

 

In the "What should Jim Byrnes create next" debate, I might vote for a really precise shaper/router.  I can see using it for a lot for similar cuts as well as channels, etc.

 

Then I cut a 3/32 strip with the routed edge from the sheet on the Byrnes Saw.

 

 

I cut each piece to length after setting the stop on the saw.

 

 

Finally, using files, I cut the indent on the sides of each and shaped them. I was not satisfied with the result.  The basswood had the fuzzies as well as a "soft" look. I tried cleaning it up with sandpaper and files but it still did not look great, so I repeated the process, this time using boxwood.  Here is a comparison of the two.

 

 

I used a strip of wood to maintain an even edge down the ladder.

 

 

I set a proportional divider to calculate the distances instead of copying from the plans. (I used the 6 to 1 scale with one side set to the distance between the bottom of the rail and wale.)  When I first start the kit I had never done this and the early lack of knowledge and skill is now rearing its head.  One impact is differences between the build and the plan, especially with fine measures.  

 

 

The final result was:

 

 

 

Once I finish the fenders I will paint the bottom steps black. Will also put some brush on poly on the steps to finish them.

 

I am now beginning the fenders and chesstrees. I wanted to double check that I am going to use the correct laser cut pieces. (I am not sure how many more mistakes the old girl can handle...)

 

I believe that I should use parts #2, but would appreciate confirmation or correction.

 

 

Thanks

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[_SalD_]

Ladder looks real nice Richard.  I like the wood strip you used as a guide and yes, the fenders and chesstrees are behind door number 2.

[rtropp]

Hi all,

I finished chapter 9 last night.

 

First putting in the fenders and painting the bottom step of the ladder and the top of the fenders.  Also took the opportunity to touch up dents and scratches.

 

 

added the sheaves:

 

 

 

 

I added the channels using pins for support:

 

 

 

Then attached channels and them painted black

 

 

I did not fully paint the edge with the cutouts wanting to leave bare wood for adding other components.

 

Here is a shot of the sheaves near the stern.  After seeing some of the other modular sheaves I wanted to try the same but I had not cut out places for them.  I tried making a simulated sheave out of thinned wood but it did not seem right so I decided I had missed that opportunity early on.  I had some brass paint from a hobby store and tried it as an accent to represent the brass... not sure if I will keep it or paint over it.  

 

 

The work done in chapter nine really showed the impact of inexperience during the initial parts, building the bulwarks, gun ports, etc. Luckily it does not seem to have hurt anything but I will not know for sure until further in the build. I am learning how the parts are all interconnected in some way and there can be a domino effect for earlier lack of skill / dexterity. 

 

I look forward to beginning chapter 10.  

 

Richard 

 

[GLakie]

Hi Richard!  Good idea with the pins in channels for support and holding off on the paint until later.  She looks fine!  

[augie]

Nice work all around.

 

Yup --- everything is connected and dependent on prior work.  Pays to keep your mind way ahead of what you're currently doing.  

[Gahm]

Excellent progress, Richard! Your Syren is shaping up very nicely. And there is nothing wrong with simulated sheaves .

 

Thomas

[rtropp]

Hi all,

its been awhile but I am back to my Syren build.

I decided to try my hand at carving the figure head.  It ended up taking a lot longer than I expected and I am going to have to give it a second try.

 

This picture was part way through the process

 

This one has been worked to better fit its place on the build but I had to take too much off to get it to fit.  

 

I think I am getting a feel for the carving but  I need to to get the proportions a little closer and modify my sequence to get a better fit to the build.

 

Richard

Edited October 2, 2015 by rtropp

[GLakie]

For your first time trying carving, I think you did very well. I'm sure the next one will be a charm! 

[rtropp]

I have begun the hawse pipes.  On the inboard side there is a piece that frames each pair.  Is that precut (laser) or is there a template in the plans? I cannot get a clear picture in either the plans or the practicum so if not, I guess it is "free hand."

 

Thanks,

Richard

[Gahm]

Richard, you can find a nice example of that piece with several pictures in Dirk's build log. But you are right, it does not come as a laser cut part in the kit.

 

Thomas

[_SalD_]

Richard, If you drill the holes for the hawse pipe careful enough you may not even need the extra inboard pieces.  The only reason I put them in is because I really chewed up the inside of the bulwarks when I drilled the holes.  I used them more like an eschion to cover up my boo-boos.

[rtropp]

Hi Sal,

You must have been looking over my shoulder... I did mess it up.  The sins of the early build are returning to haunt me.  When planking the deck I used a sheet of 1/64 ply as a base as a false deck to correct for uneven frame tops.  This added enough height to the deck to interfere with lining up the hawse holes.  Luckily I used a #70 drill bit to test so it should be repairable. Not sure how this will impact things like the cannons, but will find out after the next few steps. 

If I am unable to rework with a correct line up of hawse holes, I may have to cut the hawse pipes with inboard and outboard not actually connecting but appearing to be continuous.

 

The good news is I am learning what not to do and am getting better at, as Dirk calls it, deconstruction. The bad news is I am learning a lot of what not to do, and perhaps learning deconstruction too well :-)

 

I stepped away from the build for a couple of days to let go of some frustration before I decide what to do next. I just received some really fine carving bits and I will spend some time improving my carving skills on the figure head while considering next steps for the hawse holes.

 

Thanks,

Richard