Cutty Sark by bcochran - Revell - 1/96 - PLASTIC

[bcochran]

3 hours ago, shipman said:

The 'Pledge' used to be called 'Future'; aircraft modellers dip canopies in it, which makes them perfectly clear.

Not sure how good it is as a 'glue'.

 

This Microscale product is brilliant for clear windows. It's a sort of PVA.

There again, I've used ordinary PVA and got the same results.

 

Glad you brought this up, as it seems ideal for attaching the bow and stern etch, though I have no idea how to hold the etch in place while the stuff sets.

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=microscale+crystal+clear

 

Again, I feel Longridge is as good a source as you'll find. It's worth remembering he did his own research in the 1920's when she was still afloat and had the opportunity to crawl all over the ship.

Pledge is not acting like glue does. I think it can only hold very light things, like the Cutty Sark lettering on the wheelhouse. As it dries, it solidifies around the lettering, thus holding it. I used 5 minute epoxy to hold the etched scrolling on the bow.   I laid the ship on it's side and coated the back of the etching with epoxy and put it in place on the bow.  I think it was important that I bent the etching first so that it laid flat on the ship.  I've failed with the stern etching twice. I tried the 5-minute epoxy there, but it is slippery, I destroyed the etching by trying to keep it in place.  I think next time I will superglue the center badge part in place to hold it then work my way down the length with superglue behind the large shapes. I think I will have to curve it first to the shape of the hull.

[shipman]

Mmmm. My main concern is that the etch is pierced, ie there are gaps between the lettering etc. So whatever adhesive you use, it's bound to spread and squidge out and around  the detail. CA often turns white, epoxy....well, it behaves like chewing gum that sets. Again, messy.

The clear when dry properties of PVA types would seem to avoid those issues.

 

I agree, pre-forming the etch to the surface it's going onto is a vital key to success.

The stern decoration etch is a delicate filigree and needs some thought as to how it's applied, without destroying the whole point of using it.

[bcochran]

2 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Microscale - which reminds me - did you make the decals yourself?

I am not sure who that is addressed to. I am using the photo etch set sold by HisModel.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

To you bcochran - earlier in the log you mentioned you were using decals for the lozenges and, I think, white side stripes. DIY decals are another thing I mean to try out sooner or later and was just wondering if you made yours yourself and, if so, what products did you use?

 

I also have the hismodel etch so am listening closely to this conversation. It's such a critical piece and I'd hate to make a mess of glueing it on. I've wondered about spray mounting adhesive, like 3M SprayMount Permanent Spray Adhesive. I've not had much luck with the 'glue the centre, then work along' method. I tried that with my deck but found it difficult to get tiny amounts of CA behind the object without some getting on the edge. Might be easier with the PE, but I'd also be concerned about it ending up with small ripples through being bent back. I'll probably experiment with the blank first.

[shipman]

Can I be the first in the cue and be cheeky and request a set of your lozenge decals? I have no means of printing and haven't a clue how to do the origination on my laptop.

 

Kevin, see my comment #122 here. I share your pain.

[bcochran]

1 hour ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

To you bcochran - earlier in the log you mentioned you were using decals for the lozenges and, I think, white side stripes. DIY decals are another thing I mean to try out sooner or later and was just wondering if you made yours yourself and, if so, what products did you use?

 

I also have the hismodel etch so am listening closely to this conversation. It's such a critical piece and I'd hate to make a mess of glueing it on. I've wondered about spray mounting adhesive, like 3M SprayMount Permanent Spray Adhesive. I've not had much luck with the 'glue the centre, then work along' method. I tried that with my deck but found it difficult to get tiny amounts of CA behind the object without some getting on the edge. Might be easier with the PE, but I'd also be concerned about it ending up with small ripples through being bent back. I'll probably experiment with the blank first.

I used Microscale decals.  I cut perpendicular across the sheet to get a bunch of them.  I touch the corners of each one with a tiny bit of the background color to make them look rounded on the ends.  At a distance, they look rounded.

Edited May 2, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

5 minutes ago, shipman said:

Can I be the first in the cue and be cheeky and request a set of your lozenge decals? I have no means of printing and haven't a clue how to do the origination on my laptop.

 

Kevin, see my comment #122 here. I share your pain.

See my reply to Kevin

[bcochran]

1 hour ago, shipman said:

Mmmm. My main concern is that the etch is pierced, ie there are gaps between the lettering etc. So whatever adhesive you use, it's bound to spread and squidge out and around  the detail. CA often turns white, epoxy....well, it behaves like chewing gum that sets. Again, messy.

The clear when dry properties of PVA types would seem to avoid those issues.

 

I agree, pre-forming the etch to the surface it's going onto is a vital key to success.

The stern decoration etch is a delicate filigree and needs some thought as to how it's applied, without destroying the whole point of using it.

Here is a pic of my bow etching held on with 5 minute epoxy.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

3 minutes ago, bcochran said:

Here is a pic of my bow etching held on with 5 minute epoxy.

That looks good, do you mean the type where you mix the two tubes e.g. araldite? 

[bcochran]

40 minutes ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

That looks good, do you mean the type where you mix the two tubes e.g. araldite? 

Yes you mix two types

[shipman]

You two chaps are making a great team.

Neither are as daft as I look.

[bcochran]

Well, I failed for the third time to put the photo etch on the stern. I don't know what to glue it with. It is too fragile for me to handle. Several parts of it can bend and break off by handling it.

 

I'd much rather put on the decals if I had a good set, but since the model is so old either the decals are useless or not available. I have reached a frustration point where I should give it a rest.

 

What do the wood kits use for the stern decoratons?

Edited May 3, 2022 by bcochran

[shipman]

May I suggest you email hismodel? and seek their advice. Good luck.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

2 hours ago, bcochran said:

I have reached a frustration point where I should give it a rest

Commiserations. I'm not at that stage yet but can see it being tricky. If you contact heller in germany they will probably send you a new sheet of decals, at least they did for me. It took maybe 6 weeks and in between times, as I didn't hear back, I bought the hismodel PE. I don't remember exactly how I contacted them, it was probably through finding a support/spares link on their website. But I'm also sure hismodel will give you some advice, he appears to be an enthusiast.

[bcochran]

Here is Hismodel's directions to apply the etchings:

We recommend using gel second adhesive for gluing. You can find a detailed procedure for gluing the ornaments in our workflow here: https://www.hismodel.com/ornaments
Description of use is here, too:
First Clean ornament with an alcohol cleaner and spray it by gold paint. Pay attention to spray a very fine layer. Then paint relevant spots by blue color and by mat black color paint fine sticks, which holds a letters of name of ship.

Then cut ornament from a plate by scalpel. Try placing of these parts on relevant place on model. Unstick transfer foil from paper which you have in plastic bag. Put ornament on paper from transfer foil and spread gel superglue on the back of side of ornament. Then put ornament on sticky side of the transfer foil for easier manipulation. Finally with a help of transfer foil to glue ornament on its place.

[shipman]

I have this 'ornament', but don't recall there being 'transfer foil' enclosed. Hope you can make sense of their instructions.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

This is what I got. I imagine the yellow sheet is the transfer sheet. Also a pic of the samples, the sail hooks (or whatever they are called) are especially nice . I'm so glad you posted those instructions, in all honesty it hadn't occurred to me to look on the site nor to paint the supports black etc before glueing.

 

[bcochran]

Radimir  at HISmodel is sending me a free replacement set of etchings. I don't understand his directions. I guess you could also use scotch tape to apply them. Stick it to the front  side of the etching when you cut them off the set, but you would have to be careful not to get glue on the tape. Most likely the tape would be too tacky.

 

He says that here is the url for instructions:     http://www.hismodel.com/ornaments

 

On the stern ornament the badge that says "Where there is a Willis a way" is very fragile and beds easily and breaks off, as are the two arrow shaped parts  pointing down and the lower part of the curl on the ends. If you have bumble fingers like me, you'll break them off. You need to handle them with tweezers or something. I think putting them on the transfer paper before cutting them out then trimming around the paper then put on the glue would prevent this.

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by bcochran

[shipman]

This stern decoration is turning into the adventure/farce I was suspecting.

I don't understand Radimir's instructions either.

The transfer sheet malarky has me scratching my head big time.

 

It could be worse; it could be me.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

4 hours ago, bcochran said:

Radimir  at HISmodel is sending me a free replacement set of etchings.

I thought he might but didn't like to presume. I like dealing with people like him, micro businesses, would much rather buy from these than keep lining Mr Bezos pockets.

 

This is the transfer sheet. As you can see, the yellow backing peels off from the translucent film. This is tacky rather than sticky (as would be the case for scotch tape). I wouldn't mind betting that you can get a few placements done with it. I guess you could also use that tacky-but-not-sticky translucent tape you see in stationery stores but this looks better. It also appears easy to source more transfer tape or paper. I like the thinking behind this, I also have fat fingers and this process should make it a little easier to get the placing just right. But I'll practice on scrap stuff with CA gel first as I'm sure you need to get the smallest dots to avoid it squeezing out. I expect too that you can use this transfer sheet to hold the ornament in place while the glue sets i.e. the glue can have a longer setting time, which is good. I use medium setting as my default but still have to be quick about it.

 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Thought about it some, and here's my 'take' on the instructions, which appear to be done by computer translation.  Rad admits that he does not know English, so uses a translator.

 

Step 1,   Degrease carefully (on both sides) with a 'Q-Tip' (cotton swab) on a PAPER shaft using one of several known liquid degreasers.  Don't use the swabs where the cotton ends are on a thin plastic tube, since the tube could be attacked (and/or dissolved) by a solvent.  Possible solvents: CRC circuit board cleaner, Automotive 'Gunk' (trade name), acetone, toluene ... one can't get tricholoethylene anymore ... or MEK.  Lay the entire sheet on a felt backing and use a light touch.  Do with plenty of ventilation, and allow to air dry.

 

Step 2,  Paint the outer surface as appropriate with enamel - do not use water base paint.  You can use 'micro' brushes.  Allow to dry.

 

Step 3,  Cut the part with a NEW (sharp) X-Acto blade - or surgical scalpel.  The decorative sheet needs to be on something with more substance than an 'ordinary' cutting mat - they make polyethylene mats that have the 'right' firmness, but a piece of vinyl floor tile will do as well.  Use a deft touch.

 

Step 4,  You can peel the backing off the transfer tape, but then what do you do with the tape in the interim?  Rather, just lay the decoration painted side down on a trimmed piece of waxed paper somewhat larger than the piece of decoration.  THEN, carefully apply gel CA with a micro brush to the back (unpainted) side of the decoration ... sparingly.  If any should get through the decoration to the waxed paper, it won't stick to the wax ... but try to be neat without wasting time in the process.

 

Step 5,  Un-peel the transfer taper (if you have not done so already) and lay it on a smooth working surface 'tacky side up' ... that's the side that was protected by what was peeled off.  Pick up the piece of waxed paper (slightly 'curling' opposing edges) so the decoration will only slide off the far end.  Position the waxed paper where you want over the transfer tape, and let the decoration 'slide' off the waxed paper and onto the transfer tape.  It will tend to stick where it lands.  The painted side will be against the transfer tape, with the CA gelled side facing up.

 

Step 6,  Pick up the transfer tape and move it so the decoration is where it needs to be on the model.  In the case of the 'wrap around' stern art, press the center first.  If right handed, you will position the artwork centered on the stern (with the right hand) and press the center down with the left thumb - and the left forefinger will reach around to the inside of the bulwark so to help 'pinch' the center point of the decoration in place.  Then smooth the right side (as you're looking at it) around with gentler but firm pressure with the right thumb.  The sticky side of the transfer tape that overlaps the decoration will stick somewhat to the hull as you go.  Once the right side is wrapped around, use the right forefinger to get hold inside the bulwark to help 'pinch' to hold that side of the decoration in place. Then (while holding the right side of the decoration in place), relax the 'pinch' of the left thumb and forefinger so the left thumb can smooth the left side of the decoration around before re-pinching.  (This is what is known as using 'finger clamps'.)  Then I'd hold on to everything for a while to allow the CA to set.

 

Step 7,  When you dare, try letting go and see if the decoration stays in place.  IF not, then you let go too soon - and can hold everything down a while longer ... that is, until it stays.  'Don't know how long a good CA cure is, but I'd give it a rest for at least a couple hours.  Then the transfer tape can be carefully removed.  Don't just pull up on either end, but rather lift one end slowly while tugging out as much as up - and the tape should 'lift off' leaving the decoration in place.  For smaller flat (or relatively flat) decorations, they go on much easier that something that has to 'wrap around'.

 

'Hope this helps someone ...   Johnny

Edited May 4, 2022 by Snug Harbor Johnny
clarification

[LeoM]

Now, I am convinced and will order the ornaments from HisModel for my Cutty Sark from Mantua. It is far better than what I found in the box. I might have to order 2 sets, whenever I break something 😉

As for the chainplates, has anybody an idea how to attach those to the bulwarks. I intend to have the bulwarks in brass.

11 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

This is what I got. I imagine the yellow sheet is the transfer sheet. Also a pic of the samples, the sail hooks (or whatever they are called) are especially nice . I'm so glad you posted those instructions, in all honesty it hadn't occurred to me to look on the site nor to paint the supports black etc before glueing.

 

 

[Kevin-the-lubber]

1 minute ago, LeoM said:

ornaments from HisModel for my Cutty Sark

I very much doubt you'll be disappointed. While there, note how cheap the amati rope set is for the Cutty. I don't yet know if it's any good, until it arrives in another few days but it seemed like a very good deal to me.

[LeoM]

@Kevin-the-lubber I am patiently awaiting your feedback. I am still in dubio whether to make a ropewalk and walk the ropes myself or purchasing good quality. Thanks

[Kevin-the-lubber]

17 minutes ago, LeoM said:

I am patiently awaiting your feedback

Leo, if there's one thing all of us modellers must have in common it's patience. We'd go mad otherwise 🙄. I'll feed back over on my log when it arrives. My own thinking was that until I've seen what's on the market I'd have nothing to compare with, but also, if good rope is not too expensive, I'd just be giving myself another distraction for no good reason.

[gak1965]

On 5/1/2022 at 7:29 PM, bcochran said:

Here are a few pics of the Revell USS Constitution I was working on before I started breaking parts off.  I could not get the deck to look the way I wanted. I detailed the gun deck, even though you can't see it.  I am anxious to do another one if and when my Cutty Sark is finished.  I keep the busted Constitution on hand for inspiration.

 

In my stash of large ship models, uncompleted are the Heller Victory, Santa Maria, the Revell Yacht America, Kearsarge, Constitution and Lindberg Sea Witch.

That's a great looking Connie! No reason to stop, everyone breaks things and had to repair. Once the basic hull is done, assume you are going to break something at least once every three sessions until the standing rigging is in place (it helps stabilize all those spars in the model as in life), at which point it'll drip to maybe 1 in 4 or 5 sessions. That's why we put them in cases (well and the dust).

 

I more or less mashed all of the rigging on the bowsprit and broke off the jibboom of my Niagara at one point (a story or almost mind boggling stupidity on my part). It was fixed and moved on. 

 

Both ships are looking great!

 

George K

[Kevin-the-lubber]

9 hours ago, gak1965 said:

That's a great looking Connie

I’ll second that. It also had me looking again at the museum model you posted; I too want a fairly busy looking deck by the end of the process but haven’t yet given much thought to how I’ll achieve this. I’m not too keen on making loads of figurines but they do give the model some life. About as far as I’ve got is to have some random coils of rope and other ‘stuff’ dotted around. What are your own plans? In that vein, I’ve wondered and wondered where the fourth, missing from the kit, ships boat would have gone. On the quarterdeck cabin roof perhaps?

[shipman]

I recon this is as busy as a sailing ship deck would be while at sea......

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b5/Parma_-_under_sail_in_heavy_weather.jpg

[bcochran]

As per my Constitution, I broke the bow point off it, so I need to start over.  I want to use the Hismodel deck on it. I won't detail the gun deck because you can't see it. Only the part you can see.

 

In model planes and ships, modeler's go to great lengths to detail some places that will never be seen once the hull or fuselage is buttoned up.  At least they know it is there.

 

Anyone who wants to understand the last voyage of the USS Constitution in 1815 should get the book "The USS Constitution's Finest Fight, 1815" Edited by Tyrone G Martin.  It is the actual journal of Acting Chaplain Assheton Humphreys, US Navy, while on that voyage. He titled it "Recapitulatory Journal" of Assheton Y. Humphreys, Acting Chaplain, USS Constitution 17 December 1814 - 26 March 1815.  You can't get better descriptions than first-hand knowledge.

I haven't read it in a while, but I seem to remember that the Constitution was disguised as a British frigate. Her stripe along the gun ports was yellow, as were her masts.  Also, she did not have covers over her gun ports so that it was wet much of the time on board since the crew's hammocks were below the gun deck, and it leaked.

 

I am slowly getting back to my Cutty Saark after some days off.  I need to finish the port bulwark and pin rails, add the boats and bowsprit then begin rigging.  I am still worried about reeving the deadeyes.  They look too small and close to the bulwark to work with. I know one modeler rove them off the ship by holding them in clamps. I might do that.

Edited May 5, 2022 by bcochran

[bcochran]

18 hours ago, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  'Thought about it some, and here's my 'take' on the instructions, which appear to be done by computer translation.  Rad admits that he does not know English, so uses a translator.

 

Step 1,   Degrease carefully (on both sides) with a 'Q-Tip' (cotton swab) on a PAPER shaft using one of several known liquid degreasers.  Don't use the swabs where the cotton ends are on a thin plastic tube, since the tube could be attacked (and/or dissolved) by a solvent.  Possible solvents: CRC circuit board cleaner, Automotive 'Gunk' (trade name), acetone, toluene ... one can't get tricholoethylene anymore ... or MEK.  Lay the entire sheet on a felt backing and use a light touch.  Do with plenty of ventilation, and allow to air dry.

 

Step 2,  Paint the outer surface as appropriate with enamel - do not use water base paint.  You can use 'micro' brushes.  Allow to dry.

 

Step 3,  Cut the part with a NEW (sharp) X-Acto blade - or surgical scalpel.  The decorative sheet needs to be on something with more substance than an 'ordinary' cutting mat - they make polyethylene mats that have the 'right' firmness, but a piece of vinyl floor tile will do as well.  Use a deft touch.

 

Step 4,  You can peel the backing off the transfer tape, but then what do you do with the tape in the interim?  Rather, just lay the decoration painted side down on a trimmed piece of waxed paper somewhat larger than the piece of decoration.  THEN, carefully apply gel CA with a micro brush to the back (unpainted) side of the decoration ... sparingly.  If any should get through the decoration to the waxed paper, it won't stick to the wax ... but try to be neat without wasting time in the process.

 

Step 5,  Un-peel the transfer taper (if you have not done so already) and lay it on a smooth working surface 'tacky side up' ... that's the side that was protected by what was peeled off.  Pick up the piece of waxed paper (slightly 'curling' opposing edges) so the decoration will only slide off the far end.  Position the waxed paper where you want over the transfer tape, and let the decoration 'slide' off the waxed paper and onto the transfer tape.  It will tend to stick where it lands.  The painted side will be against the transfer tape, with the CA gelled side facing up.

 

Step 6,  Pick up the transfer tape and move it so the decoration is where it needs to be on the model.  In the case of the 'wrap around' stern art, press the center first.  If right handed, you will position the artwork centered on the stern (with the right hand) and press the center down with the left thumb - and the left forefinger will reach around to the inside of the bulwark so to help 'pinch' the center point of the decoration in place.  Then smooth the right side (as you're looking at it) around with gentler but firm pressure with the right thumb.  The sticky side of the transfer tape that overlaps the decoration will stick somewhat to the hull as you go.  Once the right side is wrapped around, use the right forefinger to get hold inside the bulwark to help 'pinch' to hold that side of the decoration in place. Then (while holding the right side of the decoration in place), relax the 'pinch' of the left thumb and forefinger so the left thumb can smooth the left side of the decoration around before re-pinching.  (This is what is known as using 'finger clamps'.)  Then I'd hold on to everything for a while to allow the CA to set.

 

Step 7,  When you dare, try letting go and see if the decoration stays in place.  IF not, then you let go too soon - and can hold everything down a while longer ... that is, until it stays.  'Don't know how long a good CA cure is, but I'd give it a rest for at least a couple hours.  Then the transfer tape can be carefully removed.  Don't just pull up on either end, but rather lift one end slowly while tugging out as much as up - and the tape should 'lift off' leaving the decoration in place.  For smaller flat (or relatively flat) decorations, they go on much easier that something that has to 'wrap around'.

 

'Hope this helps someone ...   Johnny

Thank you for that description. I will follow it. I am going to try it out on the name etching that goes on the bow first. That is the one where you paint the bits holding the letters black.