LCdr Dave Posted March 13 Author Share #61 Posted March 13 Thanks, Patrick. I considered that as well. I assumed that all the plastic bits should fit together properly and what gave me pause was the curve in the sides compared to the straight grating. It would also make the whole structure more rigid. There really isn’t any way to undo plastic cement so I am still pondering the issue. Dave Baker 1 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted March 14 Share #62 Posted March 14 9 hours ago, LCdr Dave said: There really isn’t any way to undo plastic cement so I am still pondering the issue. We once discussed this on this forum in the shore leave section. Place the glued plastic pieces in the freezer. The glue would then become crumbly, and then you can separate the pieces again. I don't think you should take it apart if everything just came out of the freezer. I think your plastic is then also very fragile. Never tested this myself. so be careful, I give no guarantee 😉 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch große-jacht / Yacht D'Oro 1/50 Corel Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Cleaning the 1/72 military collection Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted March 14 Author Share #63 Posted March 14 The way plastic glue works is to melt the plastic and fuse the two parts. I can’t see freezing it make it come apart. I can make the stanchions out of wood if I had to but rebuilding the grating would be beyond me (I know not for some). I think that trying to unglue the parts would be a desperation move but I appreciate the tip and possibility. Cheers, Dave baskerbosse, Knocklouder and Baker 2 1 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snug Harbor Johnny Posted March 14 Share #64 Posted March 14 1 hour ago, LCdr Dave said: The way plastic glue works is to melt the plastic and fuse the two parts. I can’t see freezing it make it come apart. I can make the stanchions out of You're right, Dave, about the solvent for a plastic 'melting' (dissolving) the material ... actually, a small amount of appropriate plastic glue (solvent) is absorbed in to the parent material to make it gooey. Mating surfaces together 'welds' them as the solvent both migrates AND out-gasses (vaporizes), leaving behind a fused joint - not unlike welding two pieces of steel together (but that is done with heat, not a solvent). An engineer friend of mine once put some solvent for ABS plastic in a glass bottle, then dropped in a chunk of ABS. The next day, the plastic was completely dissolved in the solvent, but leaving the top off let solvent progressively vaporize until the mixture was a gooey glue ... and eventually only solid ABS was left in the bottom of the bottle ! Different plastic have different solvents. So, to undo a glued plastic joint, one could cut it free - or in some cases use a thin cutting wheel on a Dremel to cut along the join line. After modifications, the parts can be re-glued. There is some material loss with the cutting process, which can also be adjusted for. Baker and baskerbosse 2 Quote Completed builds: Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted March 18 Author Share #65 Posted March 18 I have decided to attempt to make the beak out of wood. I traced the outline of the plastic piece onto paper and cut some planks to match. I put a bit of curve in the top piece as well. I have a thin plastic cutting mat that I put the pattern under. That allowed me to match up the pieces and glue the edges with gumming up the pattern. I still have to sand it down once the glue dries completely. I’m pretty happy about how it’s going so far. Once the glue cures completely, I will sand it down and trim to fit. Of note, once I started down this path of modifying the beak and started looking at different models and pictures I realized that this beak doesn’t match the existing replica at all. I may try to duplicate it but since no one knows what the original looked like anyway, I may not lose sleep over it either. thanks for looking. Dave Baker, ERS Rich, TOM G and 2 others 5 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted March 22 Author Share #66 Posted March 22 So, when I went to build the beak I found that the sides stood way proud of the planks making up the beak. I compared them to the drawing and found that the plastic piece I used as a pattern was too small. So back to the drawing board. I used my saw and some rare earth magnets to hold the pieces in place as they dried. 🤣 After trimming you can see the plastic part, first wood attempt and final go at it. Definitely happier now. I also added some trim around the front which was on the drawings but seemed to make sense and will help fit the beak, I think. thanks for looking. Dave GrandpaPhil, David Lester and Knocklouder 3 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knocklouder Posted March 22 Share #67 Posted March 22 Looking good Dave. LCdr Dave 1 Quote Start so you can Finish !! Finished: The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 , Amati } Hannah Ship in a Bottle:Santa Maria : LA Pinta : La Nana : The Mayflower : Viking Ship Drakkar The King Of the Mississippi Artesania Latina 1:80 Current Build: Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston-Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted March 23 Share #68 Posted March 23 Looks much better already 👍 LCdr Dave 1 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch große-jacht / Yacht D'Oro 1/50 Corel Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Cleaning the 1/72 military collection Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 3 Author Share #69 Posted April 3 Some success! I re-made the beak out of scrap wood, retaining the plastic grating and support bits. All in all I am happy and it fits OK. I am noticing that the skinny rails that decorate the hull sides do not always line up well. I guess the beak location would have been the determining factor but was made last. The poor pictures in the booklet and lack of any kind of instructions didn’t help indicate what it should look like. thanks for looking. cheers, Dave David Lester, GrandpaPhil and Knocklouder 3 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 3 Author Share #70 Posted April 3 On the subject of things not fitting…. I see that the railing strips provided are not wide enough to cover the bulkhead tops and overhang the hull planking to match the strips on the hull. Not sure what to do about that. I could shave down the bulk heads so that they don’t protrude inwards or I could remove the railings and put on hull planks (they are a bit wider, but still not wide enough). I don’t know if this was some error by the first owner or just a bad design. Dave Baker, GrandpaPhil, TOM G and 1 other 4 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lester Posted April 3 Share #71 Posted April 3 I see your problem. I believe that the bulkhead extensions needed to either be pared down to the same size as the false stanchions or else removed completely and a false stanchion put in its place. It's still not too late to do that, but, of course, the issue is this would leave gaps in your deck planking. I guess you could add a new plank on top of the existing planking and it would be like a waterway; slightly elevated from the rest of the decking, but that would entail cutting it around the false stanchions which would be very onerous. Another idea is to replace all of the railing with wider material and another would be to taper the bulkhead extensions so that they are full width where they meet the deck and narrower where they meet the railing. If it were me, at this point in the process, I think I would opt for this last approach. I think it would give the best overall result and shouldn't be too noticeable to the casual observer. Your workmanship is really great and the model is looking really nice. David Baker and Knocklouder 2 Quote Current Build - St. Roch, Billing Boats; HMS Agamemnon, Caldercraft (on hold) Previous Builds - Armed Virginia Sloop, Model Shipways; Constitution, Model Shipways; Rattlesnake, Mamoli; Virginia Privateer, Marine Model Co, restoration; Prince de Neufchatel, Model Shipways; Charles W. Morgan, Model Shipways; Pride of Baltimore II, Model Shipways, Bluenose, Model Shipways (x2); Niagara, Model Shipways; Mayfower, Model Shipways; Shamrock V, Amati; HMS Pegasus, Victory/Amati Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snug Harbor Johnny Posted April 3 Share #72 Posted April 3 22 minutes ago, David Lester said: ... taper the bulkhead extensions so that they are full width where they meet the deck and narrower where they meet the railing. If it were me, at this point in the process, I think I would opt for this last approach. I think it would give the best overall result and shouldn't be too noticeable to the casual observer. Your workmanship is really great and the model is looking really nice. David Ah yes, its the 'wide bulkhead extension' problem that I ran into myself. Obviously 'seeing ahead' (like in a chess game) might have produced a countermeasure like pre-thinning those extensions early in the build - but that would have make them weaker and easier to break under pressure of planking. Then there is thinning after planking but before decking - a better idea. But then we are dealing with the problem of what to do if the hull was planked and decked with the original bulkhead forms ... like I did. One might not want to have an overly wide gunwale, then again, the false stanchions (bulwarks?) may look too small - that is, the vertical members should have a similar thickness. David's tapering idea from the bottom up leaves the gunwale as-is, then the puny false verticals could be picked or trimmed out and replaced by tapered ones that would look about the same as the bulkhead extensions that were tapered. The decking would be unaffected via that method. So what did I do? As pictured below, the bulkhead extensions were cut in straight down (rather than tapered, as perhaps should have been done). It does mess with the decking, yet the additions of cannons may distract from that (so I hope). A waterway plank was placed between the trimmed bulkhead extensions, then false verticals placed over that ... No going back now. Ship modeling is a learning experience and we all have to learn somehow. Quote Completed builds: Khufu Solar Barge - 1:72 Woody Joe Current project(s): Gorch Fock restoration 1:100, Billing Wasa (bust) - 1:100 Billings, Great Harry (bust) 1:88 ex. Sergal 1:65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 3 Author Share #73 Posted April 3 Thank you gentlemen! I opted for the shaving down of the bulkhead extensions (thanks for the terminology). I think once colour is introduced and the rigging is strung, it will be less noticeable. David, thank you for the kind compliment. cheers, Dave Knocklouder 1 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 9 Author Share #74 Posted April 9 Railings done. I think that the shaving of the bulkhead extensions worked well. Once painted it will be unnoticeable. Next I have sea ladders to add, anchor davits, the spar out the stern, chain plates and some deck stuff. I’m also trying to figure out what to do with the life boats. They are plastic but I don’t know if I’m up to scratching them from wood. Anyway, thanks for looking. Dave Knocklouder, Altduck, David Lester and 4 others 7 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM G Posted April 10 Share #75 Posted April 10 Go to modelexpo, they have wood life boat kits. LCdr Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 10 Author Share #76 Posted April 10 I was looking at the supplied drawings to see where to locate the stern spar that protrudes out the back. Maybe I missed something but it seems to be inline with the bulwark extension. Not sure if the error is in the drawings or the construction of the hull. I could position it to one side of the extension or just butt-join it to the hull. Ideas? Also in the realm of unclear instructions… the drawing shows a part running vertically across some of the strips (#31) which is supposed to be shaped to a bit of a longitudinal peak but the wood is the same size as the ribbing strake and I am also expected to run a sheet through it that is tied off to #30 in the drawing. sorry about it being upside down….. Not sure if anyone can tell me more about this part 31 and whether they have it or if not, then how is the sheet run? Thanks for looking. Dave GrandpaPhil and Knocklouder 2 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirill4 Posted April 10 Share #77 Posted April 10 (edited) Good day, It looks like just pice of wood with hole for lead main sail /main course tuck, not sheet... Edited April 10 by kirill4 BLACK VIKING 1 Quote Current Build: Spanish Galleon, Lee, 1:100 https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6262-spanish-galleon-1607-by-kirill4-lee-plastic-1100/& https://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic10341/ Dutch 16-17 Arts Sailing Vessels in details https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijksstudio/1845326--kirill-shabanov/collections/arts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirill4 Posted April 10 Share #78 Posted April 10 Download this book, written by author of MF replica...a lot of information ! all the best !!! Kirill BLACK VIKING 1 Quote Current Build: Spanish Galleon, Lee, 1:100 https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6262-spanish-galleon-1607-by-kirill4-lee-plastic-1100/& https://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic10341/ Dutch 16-17 Arts Sailing Vessels in details https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijksstudio/1845326--kirill-shabanov/collections/arts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirill4 Posted April 10 Share #79 Posted April 10 Location of the "stern spar" ...from that book BLACK VIKING 1 Quote Current Build: Spanish Galleon, Lee, 1:100 https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6262-spanish-galleon-1607-by-kirill4-lee-plastic-1100/& https://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic10341/ Dutch 16-17 Arts Sailing Vessels in details https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijksstudio/1845326--kirill-shabanov/collections/arts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knocklouder Posted April 11 Share #80 Posted April 11 Dave I would show you how I did my stren spar, but I broke it off again. But mine just comes in at deck level and glued in to place. Yours looks like you can drill a hole in a little, then pin it on. Your ship is looking good. LCdr Dave 1 Quote Start so you can Finish !! Finished: The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 , Amati } Hannah Ship in a Bottle:Santa Maria : LA Pinta : La Nana : The Mayflower : Viking Ship Drakkar The King Of the Mississippi Artesania Latina 1:80 Current Build: Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston-Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 11 Author Share #81 Posted April 11 Krill4 thanks for the info and nomenclature! I really appreciate it. I will take a closer look but it seems my plan to locate the spar to the right of the extension is not wrong. cheers, Dave Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 11 Author Share #82 Posted April 11 13 hours ago, Knocklouder said: Dave I would show you how I did my stren spar, but I broke it off again. But mine just comes in at deck level and glued in to place. Yours looks like you can drill a hole in a little, then pin it on. Your ship is looking good. Thanks for the encouragement. Dave Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 11 Author Share #83 Posted April 11 21 hours ago, kirill4 said: Download this book, written by author of MF replica...a lot of information ! all the best !!! Kirill Didn’t see where I could download it but found a used copy on Amazon for $15. Thanks for the recommendation. cheers, Dave Knocklouder 1 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirill4 Posted April 12 Share #84 Posted April 12 (edited) Good day Dear Dave, Oh, if Your managed to purchase it , its ok ... I think You will be good impressed by reading this book...there is very good historical research background and detailed description of 16/ early 17th century galleon replica construction made by real naval engineer, and there are articles about two more vessels of MF period and sets of appendics with drawings and tables of rigging elements and all rigging lines with all names of each rope and sizes used on MF replica is given in separate article !!! By my opinion these 3 books "MF and other colonial vessels", "The Galleon ..." by Peter Kirsch, and " Rigging of the vessel in the day ..." by RC Anderson could be considered as "Must Have " especially when busy with making some of galleon model... :))) All The Best! Kirill Edited April 12 by kirill4 BLACK VIKING 1 Quote Current Build: Spanish Galleon, Lee, 1:100 https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/6262-spanish-galleon-1607-by-kirill4-lee-plastic-1100/& https://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic10341/ Dutch 16-17 Arts Sailing Vessels in details https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/en/rijksstudio/1845326--kirill-shabanov/collections/arts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 13 Author Share #85 Posted April 13 Thank you for all your help and input. I got it figured. Cheers, Dave Baker, TOM G, GrandpaPhil and 1 other 4 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 16 Author Share #86 Posted April 16 Been thinking ahead to the rigging and such. Realized that I need to get the lifeboats made. I opened up the package that also has the anchors to find that there is only one and not two! Grrr. Not sure what to do there. Dave Baker 1 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted April 17 Share #87 Posted April 17 1) Find and buy a second ancher (Two different anchors on a ship is possible) 2) Say that the second anchor is stowed in the hold. 3) Say the second anchor is lost. 4) Make make a new one yourself (again, two different anchors is possible) LCdr Dave 1 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch große-jacht / Yacht D'Oro 1/50 Corel Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Cleaning the 1/72 military collection Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 17 Author Share #88 Posted April 17 Progress is slow and not very exciting to talk about but I have given the hull some stain (3 coats of mini wax Golden Oak) and a coat of Bull’s Eye Shellac. I will give it a second coat tonight and a light sand and see where to go from there. I noticed that the stain is splotchy due to the different woods and wood filler. It looks worse in the picture but I may just give it a wash of something to even out the colour. Thanks for looking. Cheers, Dave GrandpaPhil, Baker, chris watton and 1 other 4 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCdr Dave Posted April 28 Author Share #89 Posted April 28 It seemed I was making little progress until o realized that I have actually come a long way from this last post. I brushed on hobby acrylics (P3 is the manufacturer) for the upper parts. I sprayed Vallejo model air on the hull and, to my chagrin, it crackled. Not sure why but it looks like I will need to take it off and try again. Perhaps it needs to have a primer first or I just brush it on instead of spraying. ☹️ What to do….? thanks for looking Dave GrandpaPhil 1 Quote LCdr Dave Current Build: Mayflower - Billing Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knocklouder Posted April 28 Share #90 Posted April 28 Dave she's looking good. You can sand it down a bit, then fill it then resand prime and repaint. No one will notice lol. Lots of colors on your ship looks good LCdr Dave 1 Quote Start so you can Finish !! Finished: The Sea of Galilee Boat-Scott Miller-1:20 , Amati } Hannah Ship in a Bottle:Santa Maria : LA Pinta : La Nana : The Mayflower : Viking Ship Drakkar The King Of the Mississippi Artesania Latina 1:80 Current Build: Royal Yacht, Duchess of Kingston-Vanguard Models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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