Catharpins? question

[Jonathan_219]

Not even sure that Catharpins (or Cat-harpins) is the correct term for what I'm asking but it's the only name I could find for the rigging that goes between the port and starboard futtock staves for what I assume is to counteract the pull from the futtock shrouds outward on the shrouds and stabilize the upper shroud area. My concern is that my plans for San Felipe show nothing at all for anything between the two futtock shrouds and research online hasn't given me much guidance other than they grew less necessary as stronger materials were used in construction. My gut tells me there would have been something performing this function on an early 18th century Spanish ship but would appreciate any thoughts or information on their usage or what type might have been used in this period. I've seen several examples of different types online but nothing I can tie to a ship of this period and nationality. I'd like to add them if they'd have existed on a ship like this.

 

My Revenge build had them and looking at The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships I see that Victory had them and all the pictures I see of replicas show something there, so it makes sense to me that San Felipe which falls between the two in time would have had something as well.

[Louie da fly]

That's a very beautiful model you're making.

 

I don't know the answer to your question, but the definitive work on rigging for this period is "The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast" by R. C. Anderson, an amazing and deeply researched resource. If that doesn't answer your question, nothing will. I have the book myself, but I can't access it at the moment, otherwise I'd tell you straight away.

 

Best wishes,

 

Steven 

[druxey]

According to Lees, catharpins of the style where a single block was lashed to each shroud with a zig-zag line  laced back and forth, the ends seized together, were in use until about 1730. This applies to British ships. Not sure about Spanish, but most European rigging was similar. Anderson does not mention Spanish ships, unfortunately. He says there is very little information.

[allanyed]

Further to Druxey's post, the following photo of a model at Preble Hall may help.

Allan

[Waldemar]

 

I have checked my copy of the Spanish Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria (created 1719–1756). Everything is there, even the priest's utensils and the officers' tableware. The only relevant thing I found there are the fixed catharpins connecting the futtock shrouds staves. Shown in a rather indistinctly way, as thick ropes.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Waldemar

[Waldemar]

 

Plate 69:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Plate 124:

 

 

 

 

 

[popeye2sea]

R.C. Anderson has this image.  He has very little information regarding the practice for non-English vessels except for a few Dutch references.

 

 

Regards,

Henry

[druxey]

Those illustrated certainly seem to be Dutch style, not British.

[Jonathan_219]

Thanks for all the great information. I'm starting to understand why great reference books are so highly valued, I need to start adding more of those to my library. I have a lot to consider and the illustrations from Álbum del Marqués de la Victoria seem especially pertinent. It seems obvious that the complete lack of anything resembling catharpins in the plans is a serious error and I'll need to put something there and I'll probably try to do something that replicates this detail but I haven't worked out how I'll do that yet. I'll post a picture when I come up with and install a solution.

[Thunder]

[Waldemar]

 

Photographs of Spanish ship models featuring original rigging from a slightly later period. While possibly different when it comes to the detailed configuration of catharpins, yet perhaps they will help to better interpret the above drawings from the Álbum (serving, worming, colours).

 

In compressed files, the same photographs in higher resolution (both from the Modelos de Arsenal del Museo Naval, 2004).

 

Santa Ana 1784-1816:

 

 

Santísima Trinidad 1769-1805:

 

 

Santa Ana 1784-1816.zip

 

Santisima Trinidad 1769-1805.zip

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Waldemar

[Waldemar]

 

1 hour ago, Jonathan_219 said:

I'll post a picture when I come up with and install a solution.

 

This is, of course, an absolute condition for our assistance 

 

 

[Jonathan_219]

My Solution

 

Well here is what I've come up with, not thrilled but it's ok. If the one cross piece didn't have the slight curl to it I'd be really happy but I think I will leave it. 

 

Thinking about this I had two factors that drove the construction, the first was that I needed to use rings to tie it to the futtock staves since I didn't feel there was enough space between the shrouds to add more fairly thick ropes and the second was I needed to construct as much of it as possible off the ship as working in that space is pretty tricky for me. The two main pieces are Syren .88mm dark brown, served and then seizing the rope around the ring, the inner length was 40mm end of ring to end of ring and the outer length was 45mm, longer because of the spread of the shrouds as they lay on top of each other coming off the mast. The two cross ropes were Syren .76mm dark brown, served and then seized over the first ropes. Each was 13mm. The four cross ropes were Syren .30mm and seized to the rings left quite long to aide in putting them in place once the main piece was attached to the futtock staves. 

 

Installing it was easier than I expected, I just pulled one corner up at a time and then put the four cross ropes in once it was in place. I expect the next one to be better but it will be a while before I get to them so I thought I'd post with the first one.

 

Thanks again for all the great input.

[Waldemar]

 

So fast!? And professional work at the level of museum models. It makes you want to help...

 

 

[druxey]

Well done. The line that you aren't quite happy with could be straightened with a little water and then some dilute acrylic matte medium.